• You may have to login or register before you can post and view our exclusive members only forums.
    To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Brendan Rodgers

Status
Not open for further replies.
Fantastic coach but so far, on balance, not a good judge of value. There is enough time for players to come good but his big money signings look rather ordinary. Rodgers' record suggests players like Lovren and Sakho will improve, but did we really need to spunk all that money in the first place.
 
This year was always about 'Did Suarez make Liverpool' or was it everything provided by Rodgers, the players, the refs (this was added to appease Jose) and Suarez ... Right now, I'm struggling to see a manager who's capable of building a team that can win tight defensive games (against a Mourinho), or one who can adjust his system without a legend ... I think - oddly enough - this season will turn out ok - top 4 - but zero chance of winning the league (sorry @Mamma Mia)
 
Of course I'm not saying the manager bears no responsibility but that works both ways. He deserves great credit for what we achieved last season and to get on his back after eight games this season, eight games on from losing our best player, when we're four points off second, is just a bit...Chelsea for me.
 
I wouldn't question his record. The results he's achieved from his resources have on the whole been excellent. My concern is that the problems he does have may prove much more serious and intractable than their effects on the results have so far been.
 
I predicted the existence of this thread after the first game of the season.

After a few more matches and it may be 'Brodgers out'.

After a few more and it will be 'Who do you think should replace Brodgers?'

Hence I am mentioning Ronald Koeman now first.
 
I predicted the existence of this thread after the first game of the season.

After a few more matches and it may be 'Brodgers out'.

After a few more and it will be 'Who do you think should replace Brodgers?'

Hence I am mentioning Ronald Koeman now first.

if we keep performing like this maybe those threads will be fair enough, we played like relegation candidates today
 
I predicted the existence of this thread after the first game of the season.

After a few more matches and it may be 'Brodgers out'.

After a few more and it will be 'Who do you think should replace Brodgers?'

Hence I am mentioning Ronald Koeman now first.


Very satirical of you.

Maybe you should address some of the concerns mentioned?
 
I wouldn't question his record. The results he's achieved from his resources have on the whole been excellent. My concern is that the problems he does have may prove much more serious and intractable than their effects on the results have so far been.
Good point.
 
We lack organisation, we lack leaders. We've got some great attacking players - Sterling, Coutinho, Sturridge, Lallana, but we lack a cutting edge that we had with Suarez and Sturridge, any side would miss that level of player.

We've bought poorly in Balotelli, I don't think that's knee jerk, aside from the obvious concerns, he's the polar opposite everything Liverpool are aspiring to be - he's not particularly quick, unselfish, clever or hardworking. That's all of the attributes that served us well as a side last year. Markovic has time on his side, but he too looks lethargic, lacking in drive, determination and heart. I just don't see anything other than a massive struggle to incorporate him, put him and Mario together and we may aswell be playing with 9 men.

On the flip side, we now have Johnson (who looked reinvigorated today) and Enrique (who's rusty but a worthy squad member) back, to add to the two new lads at fullback who have largely impressed me from the word go.

As for Lovren, someone pointed out the "marks of a good, modern defender", in his willingness to go out and attack the ball and push up against opponents, to get tight and cut out the danger early. I've lost count of the amount of times he's done this and been left in no-mans land, by failing to intercept clearly.

That said, in fairness to him Skrtel today, when they both made hurried clearances (like the one that led to their first goal), NO ONE attacked the second ball. The ball was cleared past three Liverpool players who stood static, ball watching. That's criminal at any level and that IS a sign of poor organisation, a trait that stops with the manager. It's that sort of sloppy play, coupled with a complete inability to defend a setpiece, which is fucking us over time and time again.

Rodgers needs time, he deserves time, because the height of his game has shown us how excellent we can be, but he's got to earn his crust now. Losing Suarez was a blow, losing Sturridge too was unlucky, but buying Mario to back that up was a poor error of judgement. I don't even know if it's feasible for us to buy a striker in January, given we have Lambert, Borini, Mario, Sturridge and also young Origi on the way in next Summer (that can't come soon enough on current evidence).

Rafa and Houllier both struggled to find a balance between their conservative methods and reaching the attacking status of a top team, they both managed it fleetingly. Rodgers has to do the same from the opposite end of the spectrum, whilst overcoming the kind of stubbornness and inability to adapt, that dogged and ultimately ended their tenures. But they had alot more than two seasons to get it right, so even the slightest murmurings of "bring in manager X" is laughably premature. There's a long way to go yet.

I think a few of us said in the Summer that this might be a season of ups and downs and a large degree of tested patience, sometimes these testing times are part of the progress. We still have a strong squad, with a couple of the "right" players and the further emergence of others, we still have alot to be positive about. We just have to hope that he doesn't ignore the warning signs that everyone can blatantly see right now. We as fans have to live with the fact that there's no quick fix and we're stuck with what we've got for the time being. Tough, but what can yer do?
 
Good post. I don't think anyone is suggesting we get a new manager, at least I hope not.
 
It'll settle down. Henry and Co really have to back him in January and next summer, and he really needs to make the right signings, but I think he'll succeed. In the short term the mentality of the players needs to recover - they've all been jaded since the end of last season - and the defence, obviously, has to be strengthened. The first step to doing that is to choose the players and stick with them. Either work to improve Mignolet or dump him pronto, don't let this uncertainty fester, and the same with the back four - pick them and work with them. Cut out as much of the doubt as possible. Then build them up. Organise them. We're drifting back to the same problems as with Roy Evans' side, when the sight of a ball going out for a corner filled you with fear. But I do believe Rodgers can coach that. It's not that difficult. Allardyce can do it. And he's a damned idiot.
 
We lack organisation, we lack leaders. We've got some great attacking players - Sterling, Coutinho, Sturridge, Lallana, but we lack a cutting edge that we had with Suarez and Sturridge, any side would miss that level of player.

We've bought poorly in Balotelli, I don't think that's knee jerk, aside from the obvious concerns, he's the polar opposite everything Liverpool are aspiring to be - he's not particularly quick, unselfish, clever or hardworking. That's all of the attributes that served us well as a side last year. Markovic has time on his side, but he too looks lethargic, lacking in drive, determination and heart. I just don't see anything other than a massive struggle to incorporate him, put him and Mario together and we may aswell be playing with 9 men.

On the flip side, we now have Johnson (who looked reinvigorated today) and Enrique (who's rusty but a worthy squad member) back, to add to the two new lads at fullback who have largely impressed me from the word go.

As for Lovren, someone pointed out the "marks of a good, modern defender", in his willingness to go out and attack the ball and push up against opponents, to get tight and cut out the danger early. I've lost count of the amount of times he's done this and been left in no-mans land, by failing to intercept clearly.

That said, in fairness to him Skrtel today, when they both made hurried clearances (like the one that led to their first goal), NO ONE attacked the second ball. The ball was cleared past three Liverpool players who stood static, ball watching. That's criminal at any level and that IS a sign of poor organisation, a trait that stops with the manager. It's that sort of sloppy play, coupled with a complete inability to defend a setpiece, which is fucking us over time and time again.

Rodgers needs time, he deserves time, because the height of his game has shown us how excellent we can be, but he's got to earn his crust now. Losing Suarez was a blow, losing Sturridge too was unlucky, but buying Mario to back that up was a poor error of judgement. I don't even know if it's feasible for us to buy a striker in January, given we have Lambert, Borini, Mario, Sturridge and also young Origi on the way in next Summer (that can't come soon enough on current evidence).

Rafa and Houllier both struggled to find a balance between their conservative methods and reaching the attacking status of a top team, they both managed it fleetingly. Rodgers has to do the same from the opposite end of the spectrum, whilst overcoming the kind of stubbornness and inability to adapt, that dogged and ultimately ended their tenures. But they had alot more than two seasons to get it right, so even the slightest murmurings of "bring in manager X" is laughably premature. There's a long way to go yet.

I think a few of us said in the Summer that this might be a season of ups and downs and a large degree of tested patience, sometimes these testing times are part of the progress. We still have a strong squad, with a couple of the "right" players and the further emergence of others, we still have alot to be positive about. We just have to hope that he doesn't ignore the warning signs that everyone can blatantly see right now. We as fans have to live with the fact that there's no quick fix and we're stuck with what we've got for the time being. Tough, but what can yer do?

I agree with all that, good post mate - but weren't the 'right players' to be signed last summer?? We spent some £110m...people can point to the net spend and all that but we still spent and spent big.

The defensive problems are obvious and the fact we've spent over £100m and are so over reliant on Sturridge for goals is a serious cause for concern. Agree that questioning Rodgers' position is just daft, but constructive criticism is fully merited.
 
Yeah it is, and I wasn't defending the signings by any means, he signs good players and bad players, don't they all?
 
Yeah it is, and I wasn't defending the signings by any means, he signs good players and bad players, don't they all?

Of course, some signings come off and some don't.

However, he's arguably bought more bad than good and there's no guarantee throwing more money at it will solve anything.

Just seems us Liverpool fans have been going on about 'just need a few more quality signings to challenge again' for forever and a day.
 
Of course, some signings come off and some don't.

However, he's arguably bought more bad than good and there's no guarantee throwing more money at it will solve anything.

Just seems us Liverpool fans have been going on about 'just need a few more quality signings to challenge again' for forever and a day.

I think it's pretty evenly split, but either way, he's pissed alot of money away, something his predecessors did and became undone by. The problem is, signing the right striker would have glossed over alot of our current shortcomings and hiccups in settling players (like Lovren) in.

The massive chasm in attack and the inevitable pressure that invites defensively, is putting things in a completely different perspective. It's easier to focus on one area and get it right, particularly if the rest of the team is functioning well. Because of our lack of bite and cutting edge, we're looking at midfielders and asking why they aren't doing this and that, while the defense is under immense pressure because we get no relief on the break (not just that, but it doesn't help).

It's like with Coutinho getting stick earlier in the season. The lad had two of the leagues quickest, best strikers playing off him last year, which brought out the best in him. Put a big half arsed lump infront of him and of course he's going to look half the player.
 
The one criticism of Rodgers is that it's his 3rd season and there's been no change to effectiveness of the defence. New players have been bought, yet the same problems still exist. So, to me, it's more of a training thing rather than a players thing.

He's shown he can bring the best out of a potential, he's shown he can get the team to score, to press and harrow during an attack. He hasn't shown how to get the team to control the game, dictate the pace at varying degrees. Like gkmacca said towards the end of last season, it's either all out attack or nothing.
 
Y'all need to chill the fuck out.

If we're still struggling this much after Christmas I'll start wondering, until then it's madness.

Even then, there's players (Markovic, Can spring to mind) who we probably won't see the best of til next season, so it could still be far too early to make any real judgements.

Just relax peoples.
 
Are we struggling ?

Outside of the top 4 on goal difference and missing sturridge for the majority of our matches , we could and should get a lot better , which bodes well.
 
There's one bloke on the staff whose sole job is analysing videos and compiling DVDs for coaching. You'd hope one thing he'd do is show the many times when Ming passes the ball out to his defenders, only for them to pass it straight back (today, weirdly, almost as if they were trying to make it as difficult as they could for him), until either he belted it forwards to no one in particular, or one of the defenders finally decided to pass it forwards, usually to no one in particular. Maybe after watching a compilation of these many instances, the staff and players would come to the realisation that there's no actual benefit in losing possession after a couple of minutes of faffing about at the back, instead of losing possession much more quickly via a normal goalkeeping clearance. There's a dogmatic smugness about such things that really grates now - we do these things to supposedly stay true to principles of play, but we don't make them work.

This is surely one reason why, even when the defence does break up an attack, it allows another one to start up within a few seconds. There's no practical logic in much of the way that the back four seeks to link up with the midfield. It's as if they just think if they do their little routine then it's all fine, like a musician performing a solo in a night club band and then sitting back down to have a drink and a fag. The whole team needs to wake up and re-learn the lessons they put into practice so well last season.
 
Macca I think the idea in doing this is not just about smugness, rather a way to get the opposition to play a higher line and put pressure on us way upfield so we could break and exploit the big gaps they would leave between defence and keeper using our (well at least our last season's) pace.
Our third goal was exactly that and it was like a glimpe to last season.
 
Macca I think the idea in doing this is not just about smugness, rather a way to get the opposition to play a higher line and put pressure on us way upfield so we could break and exploit the big gaps they would leave between defence and keeper using our (well at least our last season's) pace.
Our third goal was exactly that and it was like a glimpe to last season.


No, I know that. That's what I mean about doing it PROPERLY instead of in the robotic fashion it's become of late. It doesn't do anything when, slowly, slowly, it's passed about at the back until the final ball back to Mingolet forces him, under pressure from a forward, has to belt the ball up without looking. THAT doesn't do anything but give the ball away. I know what we did last season,
 
Fire all the defensive and goal keeping coaching staff. Teach the fuckers how to defend.

The system we play does make our defenders vulnerable. But what I still can't understand is how one defender, Carragher, completely changed our solidity and defensive record when he came back into the side after January in his final season.
Could one player change our shit defending?
 
I think that despite our poor start to the season, We are forth on points, is very encouraging. We are definitely going to get better, and BR is always learning from mistakes.

Balotelli is getting the chances, and he is a scorer, so the goals will come. His movement is the main issue really. I was so happy to see such great quality coming off the bench today. It's a big change for us in itself.

I also think we are underestimating how great it was that we kept at it, even after 2-2, even after Mario missed that last minute chance. And Raheem sterling? What a player, what runs, and what vision.

Defensively I cannot believe how porous we are, but we were unlucky with that goal. And Enrique was clearly at fault for number 1.

I can't see anything wrong with the managers purchases, given the FSG policies, and given we can't attract the top players when Chelsea City and united are spending so much. The manager knows this is not good enough but we will improve, and we have a lot of quality in this club.

I think we are just in a rare bad patch (which ain't 2010 style bad!)
 
There is no way we will ditch him - I love BR for the playing style he wants to bring, and also because he says and does the right things which is learning from game to game and attempting to improve the team. My only worry about him are the types of purchases he has made since joining us, on the whole I don't think he has done well in this department. I really don't understand why we splashed out 20M+ on Markovic - just don't think it was necessary after having signed up Lallana. Perhaps also our own club policy needs to change and on the occasion we do need to spend big on a proven talent especially when we lose one to Barca/Real and get a huge cash injection from it. Then again - I don't think any of us thought Mario was going to struggle this badly or actually realized he was that shit.
 
There is no way we will ditch him - I love BR for the playing style he wants to bring, and also because he says and does the right things which is learning from game to game and attempting to improve the team. My only worry about him are the types of purchases he has made since joining us, on the whole I don't think he has done well in this department. I really don't understand why we splashed out 20M+ on Markovic - just don't think it was necessary after having signed up Lallana. Perhaps also our own club policy needs to change and on the occasion we do need to spend big on a proven talent especially when we lose one to Barca/Real and get a huge cash injection from it. Then again - I don't think any of us thought Mario was going to struggle this badly or actually realized he was that shit.
Actually many of us thought balotelli was that Shit. It's not a surprise at all.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom