CB, DM and Semenyo

[tomasjj]

Who should we put on when eki is gassed at 65 min every game then?
Danns?

 

[tomasjj]

Maybe we messed around with the formation cause slot couldn’t find his stones? Or hoped Salah would improve?

 

[Hansern]

What games have we played like champions?

It’s not a throw away statement at all. Had we done real analytics looking at profiles we wouldn’t have broken our transfer record three times.

We started playing 4-3-3. With a massive fee for Wirtz who can’t play in that system. Same for Frimpong. Two CFs for over £200 million to share the same place. Now we’ve switched to a more accommodating 4-4-1-1/4-4-2 which means Salah isn’t needed meaning his contract renewal was stupid. Had it been a proper plan to have a formation to accommodate the signings we would’ve played that from day one of preseason. Not fumbling our way into November and throwing away the league.

We still didn’t address centre back or more defensive minded midfielder. So yes. We signed names not profiles.

Wirtz can play on the left in a 4-3-3, but thats irrelevant really as Slot's preferred formation is 4-2-3-1. But Wirtz can play in any formation. Left or central.

 

[peekay ★]

Wirtz can play on the left in a 4-3-3, but thats irrelevant really as Slot's preferred formation is 4-2-3-1. But Wirtz can play in any formation. Left or central.

Wirtz was brought to play 10. He has been playing on the left because he was ineffective in the number 10 role. Wirtz lacks the pace to play the left channel at a high level in the PL. He also lacks the in-your-face, intense, lightning-dribbling ability on the ball that Diaz and Suarez have.

Yes, his dribbling compilations in the Bundesliga are impressive. But that is where defenders respectfully stay 3 feet away from you and don't chase you back once you go past them. If we wanted someone to play on the left, we shouldn't have spent 125 million on Wirtz. We should have looked at someone with a Barcola profile - intense dribblers with pace that frightens defenders. Or better still, saved the transfer fee and handed Diaz a new contract.

 

[KopRed]

But Diaz was playing most of his last season as a 9 as well so not sure what's your point.

Anyway Wirtz is here, Diaz is gone. That's that.

 

[peekay ★]

But Diaz was playing most of his last season as a 9 as well so not sure what's your point.

Anyway Wirtz is here, Diaz is gone. That's that.

The point is that we did not seem to have a clear identity or a plan when we splurged out all that money. Diaz may have played as a number 9, but he will be far more effective on the left channel compared to Wirtz.

 

[Hansern]

Wirtz was brought to play 10. He has been playing on the left because he was ineffective in the number 10 role. Wirtz lacks the pace to play the left channel at a high level in the PL. He also lacks the in-your-face, intense, lightning-dribbling ability on the ball that Diaz and Suarez have.

Yes, his dribbling compilations in the Bundesliga are impressive. But that is where defenders respectfully stay 3 feet away from you and don't chase you back once you go past them. If we wanted someone to play on the left, we shouldn't have spent 125 million on Wirtz. We should have looked at someone with a Barcola profile - intense dribblers with pace that frightens defenders. Or better still, saved the transfer fee and handed Diaz a new contract.

Wirtz was bought to play as a 10 and he will play as a 10 in the future. I'm just saying he can play anywhere, if needed. I also think that even though his starting position has been out left at times its obvious that he's more involved centrally in games.

Our future left winger will be another profile obviously. Thats not the topic of discussion here.

I wouldn't talk down Wirtz ability to dribble. Its one of his best qualities, and we saw against Brighton that he was starting to transition that gliding movement to the PL as he adopts.

 

[Hansern]

The point is that we did not seem to have a clear identity or a plan when we splurged out all that money. Diaz may have played as a number 9, but he will be far more effective on the left channel compared to Wirtz.

Thats moot though. Wirtz wont play on the left and giving Diaz a new expensive contract with his age was a big N O.

 

[peekay ★]

True and also not true. It's position dependant.

For a CB all we need is a player who can play a high line (pace), strong in the air and technically adept (passing and control) ... oh and isn't made of matchsticks. There are surely lots of CBs who fit that mould.

I would not spend any more money unless we figure out what we want to do. We could have Dantes invent a youth serum and inject Baresi, and he would look like a confused mess in our current lineup. Isn't one of Slot's strengths the development of youth? Tell him to use our academy to figure out solutions.

 

[Squiggles ★]

I agree with the theme of peekays post, but I don't think any of that prevents us from signing a CB that we desperately need, or a pacey, direct, goal-scoring winger. No matter what style or system we play, those are key gaps in position and profile within the squad that would lead to quick improvements, IMHO.

 

[KopRed]

And I thought things are beginning to look up.

Maybe give it a rest until we lose to Spurs or something aye?

 

[peekay ★]

And I thought things are beginning to look up.

Maybe give it a rest until we lose to Spurs or something aye?

One of the most remarkable things Jurgen Klopp taught me was that spending money is not always the solution. I remember the League Cup final, when we beat Chelsea with a VVD goal in extra time. He bought on young Quansah, Bobby Clark, James McConnell, and Jayden Danns in place of experienced pros like McCallister and Gakpo. I thought we were shutting up shop. In a few minutes, I realized we were not shutting up shop or waving the white flag. The mad bastard was going for the win with a brilliant combination of tapping into their youthful enthusiasm, legs, and sheer clarity of vision on how we wanted to play.

We just spent a significant amount of money. Trust me, we get Guehi and Semenyo on January 1. Unless things change in the background, we will need XXX and YYY by February 15. We are going into "need this player to complete the final piece of the jigsaw" mode that has plagued us for years, until Klopp came.

I still disagree with Hansern's points, but I will give it a rest. I have remained not convinced by what I see in front of my eyes since the middle of Spring, and I have not posted consistently, as I did not want my pessimism to affect the discussions. I will also read the mood of the posts and avoid posting in positive threads. I have done that for the past few months, but somehow lost it in this thread.

 

[Hansern]

Semenyo favors a move to us if the recent updates are correct. Really hope we add him in January. Our attack would be much improved and revitalized.

 

[localny]

we have looked shit all season. Nobody can say we looked boss in any games because we’ve been shit. Not playing like champions.

They haven’t done their homework because it has all gone to shit. There’s no plan. If there was one we wouldn’t be sitting in 7th place. We would be right up the top.

We signed Ekitike and then pointlessly signed Isak because they are too similar. We needed a yin and yang. Nunez and Jota. One to swap out depending on who we are playing or even playing together to compliment each other. That isn’t going to happen with these two.

You’re asking the wrong person if the foresaw Salah’s drop off. I was one saying all of last season his numbers masked the shit football he was playing.

Endo was never getting a game under Slot, Badger has been injured for three years and we were actively looking for him to leave the club. We needed a defensive midfielder no matter how good Gravy is because we all saw how he tailed off from being overworked.

We didn’t get Guehi because we fucked around over a few million in January and only tested their resolve when it was too bloody late.

None of this is hindsight. It was obvious for all to see.

I thought we looked Boss v Real no?

 

[Frogfish ★]

I thought we looked Boss v Real no?

And Inter.

 

[Momo ★]

I thought we looked Boss v Real no?

I’ll give you that. The one boss performance out of 25.

And Inter.

No. It was not boss at all. Solid, yea. Deffo not boss.

 

[localny]

And Inter.

'Course!

 

[bluebell]

Would anyone oppose Salah sold to pay for Guehi and Semenyo?

 

[rubans]

One of the most remarkable things Jurgen Klopp taught me was that spending money is not always the solution. I remember the League Cup final, when we beat Chelsea with a VVD goal in extra time. He bought on young Quansah, Bobby Clark, James McConnell, and Jayden Danns in place of experienced pros like McCallister and Gakpo. I thought we were shutting up shop. In a few minutes, I realized we were not shutting up shop or waving the white flag. The mad bastard was going for the win with a brilliant combination of tapping into their youthful enthusiasm, legs, and sheer clarity of vision on how we wanted to play.

We just spent a significant amount of money. Trust me, we get Guehi and Semenyo on January 1. Unless things change in the background, we will need XXX and YYY by February 15. We are going into "need this player to complete the final piece of the jigsaw" mode that has plagued us for years, until Klopp came.

I still disagree with Hansern's points, but I will give it a rest. I have remained not convinced by what I see in front of my eyes since the middle of Spring, and I have not posted consistently, as I did not want my pessimism to affect the discussions. I will also read the mood of the posts and avoid posting in positive threads. I have done that for the past few months, but somehow lost it in this thread.

Don’t think you said anything wrong, we do need to get clear identity and playing style defined otherwise we would just be wasting money.
Prefer balanced posts tham mass world is at an end soon as we lose another game…
Couple of good results don’t change that yet for me, especially as I thought turning point was Madrid game. My concern is also the constant spanking we are getting at Youth level, feels like quality is down to what we normally have at academy but maybe some one close to this knows better.
However, we do need another CB regardless and as long that is Guehi, I don’t think Slot and Edwards future impacts that particular signing.