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Poll Centre back partnership

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Which do you trust?

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Modo

Modo

A contentious scando
Member
I want you to be completely honest. Fuck sentiment, which players do depend on holding the fort?

Carra: our most committed defender. Always gives 100 %. Had a mediocre season 2009/10. Passing not his forte.

Kyrgiakos: arguably our best defender last season. Strong in the air. Reads the game well.

Agger: our best passer among the four. Great going forward. Comfortable with the ball. Injury-prone.

Skrtel: No nonsense defender. Aggressive and tenacious. Not the best at reading the game. Arguably the quickest of the four.
 
[quote author=RolandG link=topic=41386.msg1152351#msg1152351 date=1281547125]
I'd still go with Carra and Agger.
[/quote]

x2
 
Someone tell me what I'm missing with this whole Carragher can't pass meme?

He's a better passer than all of the other CBs, which isn't saying a whole hell of a lot, and isn't as relevant as you all are making out.
 
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=41386.msg1152353#msg1152353 date=1281547260]
Someone tell me what I'm missing with this whole Carragher can't pass meme?

He's a better passer than all of the other CBs, which isn't saying a whole hell of a lot, and isn't as relevant as you all are making out.
[/quote]
He is what now?

That's quite simply wrong Farky. Not saying he's a bad passer but he's no Agger when it comes to hitting those long defense-shredding passes.

Agger's head and shoulders ahead of any other CB at the club at the moment in that area even though he can obviously improve as well. Both Skrtel and Carra are quite comfortable hitting short passes though.
 
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=41386.msg1152353#msg1152353 date=1281547260]
Someone tell me what I'm missing with this whole Carragher can't pass meme?

He's a better passer than all of the other CBs, which isn't saying a whole hell of a lot, and isn't as relevant as you all are making out.
[/quote]

So you think he's a better passer than Agger?
 
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=41386.msg1152353#msg1152353 date=1281547260]
Someone tell me what I'm missing with this whole Carragher can't pass meme?

He's a better passer than all of the other CBs, which isn't saying a whole hell of a lot, and isn't as relevant as you all are making out.
[/quote]No he isn't.
 
[quote author=KHL link=topic=41386.msg1152356#msg1152356 date=1281547446]
Both Skrtel and Carra are quite comfortable hitting short passes though.
[/quote]

Every professional footballer should be comfortable hitting short passes.
Problem with Carragher is that when he's under pressure he can't pass himself out if. Instead he hoofs it. Possession lost.
 
[quote author=KHL link=topic=41386.msg1152356#msg1152356 date=1281547446]
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=41386.msg1152353#msg1152353 date=1281547260]
Someone tell me what I'm missing with this whole Carragher can't pass meme?

He's a better passer than all of the other CBs, which isn't saying a whole hell of a lot, and isn't as relevant as you all are making out.
[/quote]
He is what now?

That's quite simply wrong Farky. Not saying he's a bad passer but he's no Agger when it comes to hitting those long defense-shredding passes.

Agger's head and shoulders ahead of any other CB at the club at the moment in that area even though he can obviously improve as well. Both Skrtel and Carra are quite comfortable hitting short passes though.
[/quote]

First of all, we're fucked if we're wanting our defense splitting passes to come from our CBs. That said, Carragher has made more defense splitting passes than Agger has, and Agger mishits more passes.

When Agger doesn't connect with a long ball, because of his elegant style, people say oooh, nearly, whereas when Carragher does it, it's hoofing.

Agger is undeniably more comfortable on the ball, and better in attack in every aspect of the game, which is probably why he ends up further up the pitch far more often, but he's not a better passer, and Carragher isn't a bad passer.
 
[quote author=Modokay link=topic=41386.msg1152357#msg1152357 date=1281547501]
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=41386.msg1152353#msg1152353 date=1281547260]
Someone tell me what I'm missing with this whole Carragher can't pass meme?

He's a better passer than all of the other CBs, which isn't saying a whole hell of a lot, and isn't as relevant as you all are making out.
[/quote]

So you think he's a better passer than Agger?
[/quote]

Agger at his best is a better passer, but he's often quite inconsistent.

Anyone want to look up their pass completion statistics?
 
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=41386.msg1152362#msg1152362 date=1281547660]
[quote author=KHL link=topic=41386.msg1152356#msg1152356 date=1281547446]
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=41386.msg1152353#msg1152353 date=1281547260]
Someone tell me what I'm missing with this whole Carragher can't pass meme?

He's a better passer than all of the other CBs, which isn't saying a whole hell of a lot, and isn't as relevant as you all are making out.
[/quote]
He is what now?

That's quite simply wrong Farky. Not saying he's a bad passer but he's no Agger when it comes to hitting those long defense-shredding passes.

Agger's head and shoulders ahead of any other CB at the club at the moment in that area even though he can obviously improve as well. Both Skrtel and Carra are quite comfortable hitting short passes though.
[/quote]

First of all, we're fucked if we're wanting our defense splitting passes to come from our CBs. That said, Carragher has made more defense splitting passes than Agger has, and Agger mishits more passes.

When Agger doesn't connect with a long ball, because of his elegant style, people say oooh, nearly, whereas when Carragher does it, it's hoofing.

Agger is undeniably more comfortable on the ball, and better in attack in every aspect of the game, which is probably why he ends up further up the pitch far more often, but he's not a better passer, and Carragher isn't a bad passer.
[/quote]
Agger's range of passing is better than Carra's mate.

Carras the better defender of the two in terms of tackles and probably positioning as well but he's far too often hitting long passes upfield without any address imo.
 
When Agger doesn't connect with a long ball, because of his elegant style, people say oooh, nearly, whereas when Carragher does it, it's hoofing.
Click to expand...

Hahahahaha.
 
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=41386.msg1152366#msg1152366 date=1281548071]
[quote author=Modokay link=topic=41386.msg1152357#msg1152357 date=1281547501]
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=41386.msg1152353#msg1152353 date=1281547260]
Someone tell me what I'm missing with this whole Carragher can't pass meme?

He's a better passer than all of the other CBs, which isn't saying a whole hell of a lot, and isn't as relevant as you all are making out.
[/quote]

So you think he's a better passer than Agger?
[/quote]

Agger at his best is a better passer, but he's often quite inconsistent.

Anyone want to look up their pass completion statistics?
[/quote]
Carra's completion rate is probably better but only down to 100 sideways passes to the nearest teammate in most matches. And another thing he's often given more time on the ball compared to Agger as he's always the one opponents are trying to lock down.

IF you could see a stat over their completion rate of passes over 30 yards Agger would win hands down.
 
[quote author=KHL link=topic=41386.msg1152368#msg1152368 date=1281548326]
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=41386.msg1152362#msg1152362 date=1281547660]
[quote author=KHL link=topic=41386.msg1152356#msg1152356 date=1281547446]
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=41386.msg1152353#msg1152353 date=1281547260]
Someone tell me what I'm missing with this whole Carragher can't pass meme?

He's a better passer than all of the other CBs, which isn't saying a whole hell of a lot, and isn't as relevant as you all are making out.
[/quote]
He is what now?

That's quite simply wrong Farky. Not saying he's a bad passer but he's no Agger when it comes to hitting those long defense-shredding passes.

Agger's head and shoulders ahead of any other CB at the club at the moment in that area even though he can obviously improve as well. Both Skrtel and Carra are quite comfortable hitting short passes though.
[/quote]

First of all, we're fucked if we're wanting our defense splitting passes to come from our CBs. That said, Carragher has made more defense splitting passes than Agger has, and Agger mishits more passes.

When Agger doesn't connect with a long ball, because of his elegant style, people say oooh, nearly, whereas when Carragher does it, it's hoofing.

Agger is undeniably more comfortable on the ball, and better in attack in every aspect of the game, which is probably why he ends up further up the pitch far more often, but he's not a better passer, and Carragher isn't a bad passer.
[/quote]
Agger's range of passing is better than Carra's mate.

Carras the better defender of the two in terms of tackles and probably positioning as well but he's far too often hitting long passes upfield without any address imo.
[/quote]

Couldn't agree more. Agger's miles better with his passing.
So Farky doesn't think much of Cole, doesn't expect Roy to do well and thinks Carra's a better passer of the ball than Agger.
Where's the old reasonable Farky gone?
 
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=41386.msg1152366#msg1152366 date=1281548071]
[quote author=Modokay link=topic=41386.msg1152357#msg1152357 date=1281547501]
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=41386.msg1152353#msg1152353 date=1281547260]
Someone tell me what I'm missing with this whole Carragher can't pass meme?

He's a better passer than all of the other CBs, which isn't saying a whole hell of a lot, and isn't as relevant as you all are making out.
[/quote]

So you think he's a better passer than Agger?
[/quote]

Agger at his best is a better passer, but he's often quite inconsistent.

Anyone want to look up their pass completion statistics?
[/quote]

The pass completion stats will probably favour Carragher because the only one-two he plays is with Reina.
 
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=41386.msg1152367#msg1152367 date=1281548072]
Carragher plus one other. As usual.

He's the best defender at the club by a mile
[/quote]I don't think that's really true is it? By a mile I mean. Carragher has cost us as many goals as any other centreback we have, probably more than Agger in fact. He's probably still the best, and his commitment and determination alone would always mean he'd be most peoples first pick, but miles better?
 
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=41386.msg1152374#msg1152374 date=1281548900]
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=41386.msg1152367#msg1152367 date=1281548072]
Carragher plus one other. As usual.

He's the best defender at the club by a mile
[/quote]I don't think that's really true is it? By a mile I mean. Carragher has cost us as many goals as any other centreback we have, probably more than Agger in fact. He's probably still the best, and his commitment and determination alone would always mean he'd be most peoples first pick, but miles better?
[/quote]

That's an interesting point. I can remember plenty of games that Carra has cost us.
But I can't remember any game the other three have. If someone here does, please remind me.
 
[quote author=KHL link=topic=41386.msg1152371#msg1152371 date=1281548572]
IF you could see a stat over their completion rate of passes over 30 yards Agger would win hands down.
[/quote]

Conveniently, you can't. Of course Carragher plays lots of short passes across the back. Like every other CB, like Agger at CB.

Regarding my being unreasonable:

1) I don't think Cole is the messiah, that isn't to say I don't think he's a good player, he's just not great, and I don't think he represents some massive improvement.
2) I expect Roy to do a decent job, but I don't expect him to do very well, because we haven't really improved the squad, we are having obvious issues making improvements due to having 0 funds, and our midfield, striker, and left back situation is still completely unresolved. I guess that's what happens when your club is in a total shambles. I'm sorry I don't see reason for joy in that.
3) My main point is that Carragher is not a bad passer as many make out, and that it's not a tremendously significant factor in choosing who to play at one position of CB. There are a ton of great CBs who don't show any great passing range, as it's not the focus of that skillset. I also think Agger's passing is overrated, and, for the record I really rate Agger, and love watching him play.

Is all that so crazy?
 
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=41386.msg1152381#msg1152381 date=1281549358]
[quote author=KHL link=topic=41386.msg1152371#msg1152371 date=1281548572]
IF you could see a stat over their completion rate of passes over 30 yards Agger would win hands down.
[/quote]



1) I don't think Cole is the messiah, that isn't to say I don't think he's a good player, he's just not great, and I don't think he represents some massive improvement.



[/quote]

I forgot you were very meh on Cole Farky.

How did you rate his opening performance against Dr Robotnik?
 
[quote author=Modokay link=topic=41386.msg1152378#msg1152378 date=1281549272]
That's an interesting point. I can remember plenty of games that Carra has cost us.
But I can't remember any game the other three have. If someone here does, please remind me.
[/quote]

Our whole defense was a shambles at the beginning of last season. For Carragher, his form was hopefully an anomaly, but it's fair to say that it was the first time we saw real weakness from him due to his being slow, and the first time he wasn't able to recover form quickly.

If you can't remember Skrtl being weak on crosses last season, and costing us points, you aren't thinking very hard.
 
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=41386.msg1152384#msg1152384 date=1281549668]
[quote author=Modokay link=topic=41386.msg1152378#msg1152378 date=1281549272]
That's an interesting point. I can remember plenty of games that Carra has cost us.
But I can't remember any game the other three have. If someone here does, please remind me.
[/quote]

Our whole defense was a shambles at the beginning of last season. For Carragher, his form was hopefully an anomaly, but it's fair to say that it was the first time we saw real weakness from him due to his being slow, and the first time he wasn't able to recover form quickly.

If you can't remember Skrtl being weak on crosses last season, and costing us points, you aren't thinking very hard.
[/quote]Carragher had a really dodgy patch the year before too Fark. He seems to start the season slowly. Maybe not having a break will stop that this year.
Obviously it's carragher and agger for me'.
 
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=41386.msg1152383#msg1152383 date=1281549491]
I forgot you were very meh on Cole Farky.

How did you rate his opening performance against Dr Robotnik?
[/quote]

Looked great. It was Robotnik though.
 
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=41386.msg1152386#msg1152386 date=1281549840]
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=41386.msg1152384#msg1152384 date=1281549668]
[quote author=Modokay link=topic=41386.msg1152378#msg1152378 date=1281549272]
That's an interesting point. I can remember plenty of games that Carra has cost us.
But I can't remember any game the other three have. If someone here does, please remind me.
[/quote]

Our whole defense was a shambles at the beginning of last season. For Carragher, his form was hopefully an anomaly, but it's fair to say that it was the first time we saw real weakness from him due to his being slow, and the first time he wasn't able to recover form quickly.

If you can't remember Skrtl being weak on crosses last season, and costing us points, you aren't thinking very hard.
[/quote]Carragher had a really dodgy patch the year before too Fark. He seems to start the season slowly. Maybe not having a break will stop that this year.
Obviously it's carragher and agger for me'.
[/quote]

Yea, that's true, last season's form was a different order of magnitude for me.
 
Can we stop with the ridiculous assertions that Agger is a brilliant passer who can ping a ball 40 yards onto someone's foot?

He can't. It's a fallacy. He's comfortable bringing the ball out of defence which leads to all kinds of exaggeration about his ability defensively AND offensively.

I wish people would stop judging what he is on paper. Yeah he's good, yeah he could be very good, but can we stop with the hyperbole?
 
I vaguely recall a thread from Agger's first season in which myself and Wizardry both mentioned that his long range passing requires a lot of improvement.

He is good with the ball at his feet and can look quite elegant, but his passing can be a little erratic and hasn't improved a great deal since he arrived. Injuries of course haven't quite helped.

As for a partnership... I'd go for Carragher and Agger.
 
Carra and Agger, but I'd be keeping a close eye on Carra's form.

I'm happy with either the Greek or Skrtel for back-up. They've all got different strengths.
 
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=41386.msg1152392#msg1152392 date=1281550325]
Can we stop with the ridiculous assertions that Agger is a brilliant passer who can ping a ball 40 yards onto someone's foot?

He can't. It's a fallacy. He's comfortable bringing the ball out of defence which leads to all kinds of exaggeration about his ability defensively AND offensively.

I wish people would stop judging what he is on paper. Yeah he's good, yeah he could be very good, but can we stop with the hyperbole?
[/quote]Who's we? Who has said that?
 
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