Flashback Friday

[6TimesaRed]

Quality Oncy quote from 2017...

Our manager is shit.
All fucking character and charisma but zero fucking substance.

Hes like banging a superfit supermodel and its amazing coz all your mates are like 'Your bird is fucking class' but you know all she does is fucking moan and make excuses for being a cunt and doesnt give you blowies but teases you every night before you leave the restaurant that its gonna be fucking mega and plays with your cock under the table but soon as you get home she has a hissy goes for a shit and tells you to sleep on the sofa.
And her favourite film is Mrs fucking Doubtfire.

The annoying german cunt

http://www.sixcrazyminutes.com/threads/defence.105815/


In respect of a Thread I created about our God awful defence after drawing 3-3 with Watford, back at the beginning of 2017 season.. Robertson was deemed backup to moreno..

How things have changed..

To be fair our defence was fucking awful till Van Dijk came into the side in January..

@Dreambeliever a bit later on in the thread..

The fact after two years Klopp still hasn't realized you cant play with two full backs that high at the same time is incredible.

Once any team transitions past that first phase of possession we are goosed and totally exposed.

It's almost as if he's too stubborn to change which in itself is a major concern.

erm... he didn't change just bought better players... his philosophy worked..

If I find the time and energy I'll explain it, but I've got neither right now.

In summary though, it's not a problem of our defensive set-up at set-pieces (which is a mix of first-line zonal, and second line man-marking). The problem lies with the reactions to where the ball comes in, and the movement of the opposition. Pretty simplistic - but we either don't have players astute enough to respond to situations as they happen, or we haven't been able to coach it. Both are fucking horrific.

I'd blame the coaching. People are quick to absolve Klopp's poor defensive record with counter-claims that "we play open, expansive football, with high full-backs that are always going to leave centre backs exposed, and this gameplan allows us to create and score at will etc etc..." BUT, he has shown in 2-odd years that he doesn't even know how to address the most basic fundamentals of set-piece defending too, so the argument that what we lose on the swings, we gain on the roundabouts is nonsense.

In Klopp's time with us, we've ...

Bought mediocre (or no) defensive players.
Conceded consistently from open play.
Continuously made individual errors - Karius, Lovren, Moreno, Mignolet, Klavan, etc.
Never once managed set-pieces well, or implemented a system (zonal, semi-zonal, space, or man-marking) that's worked.
Managed a lead
Or been able to close out games.

He's an A-grade Coach, with a C-Grade defensive management ability.

The evidence weighs against his ability to fix this.

Sorry @Ryan He's an A-grade Coach, with a A-Grade defensive management ability. But yeh back then it did seem that was the case...

Which leads me onto @rurikbird brilliant Sakho post...

Spot on I thought... apart from being most a very good passer.... nahhhhhh not when you have seen the partnership VVD and Joel Matip... he is shit when it comes to passing.....

We've been through this discussion many times before. Sakho, on the positive side is:

• strong and athletic
• mostly a very good passer
• has a mentality of a fighter
• is quite a nice bloke off the field by all accounts

It's rare to find a defender with both good athleticism and passing, that's the stuff of potentially a top-class defender. Plus he's a natural left-sided CB, which is rare. But then come the negatives:

• prone to lapses in concentration and general clumsiness
• prone to frequent muscular injuries, like Sturridge, and always takes longer than expected to recover and then needs a few games to find his best form. And when he's not in best form, that general clumsiness means he is a fucking liability.
• plays too much with emotion, tries to do everything by himself and is thus not very coachable – I suspect that's the biggest reason Klopp dislikes him. [Klopp's defensive system relies heavily on holding a high line and the offside trap, so he needs defenders who are always aware of their position, stay on their feet and are ready to step up as a unit. Sakho, in contrast, has the unfortunate tendency to drop deep under pressure, a trait that was perfectly analyzed by Carra in the wake of that infamous 3:3 CP game. That's not a problem in a team that usually defends deep, like Allardyce's CP, but a big problem when playing for the likes of Liverpool]
• In spite of his generally good athletic ability, not fast and not a great header of the ball, so he can't be classed as an utterly physically dominant type who can be forgiven for a few tactical faults.
• finally, all kinds of unprofessional behavior, especially when not playing regularly – before the spat with Klopp, he had to apologize to Rodgers and there were problems at PSG plus the whole "doping" thing, for which he is at least partly responsible. So that kind of kills the idea of him being a 3rd or 4th choice at a top club – he needs to be a leader or he's a problem.

So how to finally settle the SCM Infamous Agger vs Sakho debate ?

Agger is about 50 now. But I'd still prefer him over Sakho.

Excellently well put...

 

[doctor_mac]

Yeah, Oncy turned on Klopp for a while. But flip flopping is in the fabric of his being, and I wouldn't have it any other way. COME BACK HERR ONCY!!!

 

[Holle]

He's dead.

 

[StevieM]

He's dead.

So is Dreamies brain... but that doesn’t hinder him.

Zombie Oncy return please!!!!

 

[peekay]

I hate such posts. In general, I like this forum because posters are passionate, knowledgeable, and are not afraid to take strong positions based on the evidence.

For example, I was not too keen on Mane. I remember me and Rosco not being too happy about spending that much on VVD. Mainly because, in the previous season, Mane's goalscoring was streaky and VVD's injury record. We had also just handed out a 100K plus contract renewal for Lovren who was not exactly popular in the forum. So there was a lot of doubt about the way we built up our squad. Also, our defensive purchases until that point did not really inspire confidence - Klavan, Karius etc. Even Robertson was not exactly setting Anfield alight at that point. I was more than happy to be proven wrong in both cases.

I would rather people take strong opinions. It makes for interesting discussions. Also given the evidence we had at that point in time every point Ryan made was spot on "Bought mediocre (or no) defensive players, Conceded consistently from open play. Continuously made individual errors - Karius, Lovren, Moreno, Mignolet, Klavan, etc., Never once managed set-pieces well, or implemented a system (zonal, semi-zonal, space, or man-marking) that's worked., Managed a lead, Or been able to close out games." VVD and Allison changed the complete dynamic of our defense. We do not have access to detailed scouting data and neither are we professionals. Often we get them wrong. But better than playing it safe all the time.

For example, if we do not buy a capable backup or two for our front three, I think it will be a mistake as we may be missing our window of opportunity to win the PL. But again, happy to be proven wrong on that front.

 

[Ijg]

We’ve all said dumb shit on this forum at some point or another. I’ve been on this forum for 13 years, near enough my entire adult life, if I’ve not said anything dumb on here in that time it’s a miracle.

Also, it’s an opinion at a time when we were shit, hindsight’s a wonderful thing.

Big up my dead bro.

 

[Dreambeliever]

Not sure the point of this?

Klopp drastically changed our approach last season and had much better defensive players in every position and the result is obvious.

At the point in the time this thread existed, all the comments were valid.

 

[tombrown]

At the point in the time this thread existed, all the comments were valid.

This thread has only existed for 5 hours ...

 

[moron]

@RedNinja - I like this thread, because it is a good piss take out of all of us. First of all you all know I am the dumbest mother fucker on this site who comes out with the most trash. In defense of the departed regarding your first post on this thread with reference to Oncy vs Klopp, I just want to say - I totally get his feelings at the time he posted that because we have had enough false dawns and those inconsistencies of our team get to us.

As for players - fuck me, I still hate don't believe the evidence of my own eyes - and still think some players are not right for our team. I won't change, I just know it and you guys know it. VVD - never really expected him to be as good as he has been, and when we paid that money - I thought FUCK FUCK FUCK - we are crazy, but you know what ? - It has given me time to think and to be honest going forward - when VVD finishes at our club - I say we blow the bank and set another record for the most expensive defender, because having a stable defense is the way to build a team. Since Rafa left - we just forgot to do that under Woy, Kenny, and Rodgers. I also cannot stand Lallana - I think he just is not PL material at all and wish we would just sell him - he will NEVER be fit for us and is a pure drain. Am delighted Sturridge has left too, since the Suarez season he has been a complete non-entity for us. For the record - never had problems with Klavan - thought he made few mistakes for us personally.

As for the goalkeepers - when a goalie fails at our club - I blame all the supporters, we seem to highlight their errors more than anyone and then watch them suffer a crisis of confidence. The only ones that survive are the ones that don't give a fuck like Reina. However, Karius fuck ups of last season in the CL final turned me against him, but again I was like what the fuck at the price, but now looking back - I can only say Klopp and the recruitment team know their shit !!!

I agree with @Portly - we definitely need some fresh blood for the attacking areas, but Klopp may not want anyone because lets face it we pretty much played with our CL final squad of the season before for most of the games this season except Lovren. I think of our signings last season only Fab has come good in terms of consistency and we have yet to see a good run for Keita, Ox, and Shaq in the team to even say they are established because they are not - since signing those three all they have had is a few good moments and that is really it. Maybe Klopp feels there is more to this squad of players than they have shown even until now.

 

[My_Blood_Bleeds_Red]

Goes to show that most of us know jack bout footy. That's why I don't take any of the posts seriously and usually skip reading lengthy posts about tactics, formations and stuff. Soz.

 

[Modo]

I don't know about you guys, but I came out of that looking alright...hahaha

 

[Dave G]

@RedNinja - I like this thread, because it is a good piss take out of all of us. First of all you all know I am the dumbest mother fucker on this site who comes out with the most trash.

Ha ha ha. Not by a long chalk as long as WDDB breathes.

 

[Insignificance]

@RedNinja - I like this thread, because it is a good piss take out of all of us. First of all you all know I am the dumbest mother fucker on this site who comes out with the most trash. In defense of the departed regarding your first post on this thread with reference to Oncy vs Klopp, I just want to say - I totally get his feelings at the time he posted that because we have had enough false dawns and those inconsistencies of our team get to us.

As for players - fuck me, I still hate don't believe the evidence of my own eyes - and still think some players are not right for our team. I won't change, I just know it and you guys know it. VVD - never really expected him to be as good as he has been, and when we paid that money - I thought FUCK FUCK FUCK - we are crazy, but you know what ? - It has given me time to think and to be honest going forward - when VVD finishes at our club - I say we blow the bank and set another record for the most expensive defender, because having a stable defense is the way to build a team. Since Rafa left - we just forgot to do that under Woy, Kenny, and Rodgers. I also cannot stand Lallana - I think he just is not PL material at all and wish we would just sell him - he will NEVER be fit for us and is a pure drain. Am delighted Sturridge has left too, since the Suarez season he has been a complete non-entity for us. For the record - never had problems with Klavan - thought he made few mistakes for us personally.

As for the goalkeepers - when a goalie fails at our club - I blame all the supporters, we seem to highlight their errors more than anyone and then watch them suffer a crisis of confidence. The only ones that survive are the ones that don't give a fuck like Reina. However, Karius fuck ups of last season in the CL final turned me against him, but again I was like what the fuck at the price, but now looking back - I can only say Klopp and the recruitment team know their shit !!!

I agree with @Portly - we definitely need some fresh blood for the attacking areas, but Klopp may not want anyone because lets face it we pretty much played with our CL final squad of the season before for most of the games this season except Lovren. I think of our signings last season only Fab has come good in terms of consistency and we have yet to see a good run for Keita, Ox, and Shaq in the team to even say they are established because they are not - since signing those three all they have had is a few good moments and that is really it. Maybe Klopp feels there is more to this squad of players than they have shown even until now.

Haha. You are the fucking man Moron