Connor Wickham

[Modo]

[quote author=Fabio link=topic=44968.msg1354952#msg1354952 date=1308997067]
[quote author=Modo link=topic=44968.msg1354949#msg1354949 date=1308996624]
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=44968.msg1354944#msg1354944 date=1308995916]
[quote author=Modo link=topic=44968.msg1354942#msg1354942 date=1308995802]
my bad regarding Keane.
£24 Million got us Torres.
[/quote]

an unproven striker with an average scoring ability compared to someone who had been the top british scorer for the years previous

Ive said it before and i'll say it again, at the time i wanted us to get bent
[/quote]

I wouldn't say that Torres was unproven. I mean he was one of the top rated strikers in Spain. But sure he was unproven in the premiership. We could say the same about someone like Villa.
[/quote]

Torres was highly rated, but he never showed great ability in spain. Villa (since he was at gijon) was a goal scoring machine. Villa moved to valencia for 9m. Bargains can be had but i'm sure if we compare goal scoring between villa and Torres at similar ages villa will batter Torres.

Bargains can be had and yes, villa would have been a steal at the time, but bent was still a safer, cheaper option at the time
[/quote]

That I can agree with, though I never really rated Bent.

Just to be clear

Villa:

Gijon (Second division)
2001-02 40 games 18 goals
2002-03 39 games 20 goals

Real Zaragoz (Primera)
2003-04 38 17
2004-05 35 15
2005-06 35 25
2006-07 36 16
Torres:

Athletico
2003–04 35 19
2004–05 38 16
2005–06 36 13
2006–07 36 14

To be fair they scored about the same amount of goals. Considering the age difference (Torres is three years younger), while Villa was scoring in the second division, Torres was scoring about the same amount in the primera league at the same age.

 

[Fabio]

Yet villa cost 11m less. Obvious torres was great for us and was a great purchase, yet when rafa came in we were allegedly after villa and we baulked at the 9m price tag.

Bent would have been similar to torres, been cheaper, and in the same period has scored 9 less goals in 40 less games.

Its unfair to label bent overpriced when he's done more than most other players who move for that fee

 

[Modo]

[quote author=Fabio link=topic=44968.msg1354974#msg1354974 date=1308998886]
Yet villa cost 11m less. Obvious Torres was great for us and was a great purchase, yet when rafa came in we were allegedly after villa and we baulked at the 9m price tag.

Bent would have been similar to Torres, been cheaper, and in the same period has scored 9 less goals in 40 less games.

Its unfair to label bent overpriced when he's done more than most other players who move for that fee
[/quote]

Are you basically saying that Torres and Bent are just as good?

 

[Fabio]

[quote author=Modo link=topic=44968.msg1354990#msg1354990 date=1309000118]
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=44968.msg1354974#msg1354974 date=1308998886]
Yet villa cost 11m less. Obvious Torres was great for us and was a great purchase, yet when rafa came in we were allegedly after villa and we baulked at the 9m price tag.

Bent would have been similar to Torres, been cheaper, and in the same period has scored 9 less goals in 40 less games.

Its unfair to label bent overpriced when he's done more than most other players who move for that fee
[/quote]

Are you basically saying that Torres and Bent are just as good?
[/quote]

i'm saying that we could have potentially got a few more years of consistency through bent.

 

[ILD]

Rafa tried to get David Villa when he was still at Zaragoza. Remember the "I don't like the beatles" tongue in cheek comments from Villa. Valencia got a bargain that's for sure.

 

[Modo]

[quote author=Fabio link=topic=44968.msg1354992#msg1354992 date=1309000604]
[quote author=Modo link=topic=44968.msg1354990#msg1354990 date=1309000118]
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=44968.msg1354974#msg1354974 date=1308998886]
Yet villa cost 11m less. Obvious Torres was great for us and was a great purchase, yet when rafa came in we were allegedly after villa and we baulked at the 9m price tag.

Bent would have been similar to Torres, been cheaper, and in the same period has scored 9 less goals in 40 less games.

Its unfair to label bent overpriced when he's done more than most other players who move for that fee
[/quote]

Are you basically saying that Torres and Bent are just as good?
[/quote]

i'm saying that we could have potentially got a few more years of consistency through bent.
[/quote]

Definitely, injury-wise that is.
While Bent was playing League football, Torres was travelling around Europe playing against the likes of Inter and Madrid. Dunno if Bent would have been as lethal against that type of opposition.
Anyway I get your point.

 

[Fabio]

a poacher is a poacher regardless of opposition. Nando never was a poacher

 

[Modo]

[quote author=Fabio link=topic=44968.msg1355010#msg1355010 date=1309002108]
a poacher is a poacher regardless of opposition. Nando never was a poacher
[/quote] That just opens another can of questions so I'm just gonna leave it be.

 

[SummerOnions]

[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=44968.msg1354861#msg1354861 date=1308990824]
Wickham looks like a serious prospect.

But other than we're paying more, does anybody else get the feeling we've become like Martin O'Neill's Villa. Lot's of overpriced British players please.
[/quote]

Hopefully our wages are a lot lower though, and we don't end up with Reo-Coker, Harewood etc.

 

[keniget]

[quote author=Fabio link=topic=44968.msg1355010#msg1355010 date=1309002108]
a poacher is a poacher regardless of opposition. Nando never was a poacher
[/quote]

Has anyone ever tried to claim Torres was a poacher? Villa and Torres are different players with different qualities.

Torres was captain at the age of 19, had all the responsibility of a club who felt they should be competing for titles, but had none of the foundations to do so and on top of that had periods of being shunted out to the wing.

It's true that he improved markedly when he came to us (along with his finishing), but it's also true that he got a fresh start in a better team with a manager who played to his strengths. The talent was always there for all to see, which is why he was followed for years by every top club in Europe. We just got lucky with our timing as A.Madrid finally accepted they had to sell.

Bent has gone from Charlton to the Spurs bench to Sunderland to Aston Villa. I wonder why a top club has never really gambled on him given that he's comparable to a player like Torres.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=keniget link=topic=44968.msg1355155#msg1355155 date=1309019524]
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=44968.msg1355010#msg1355010 date=1309002108]
a poacher is a poacher regardless of opposition. Nando never was a poacher
[/quote]

Has anyone ever tried to claim Torres was a poacher? Villa and Torres are different players with different qualities.

Torres was captain at the age of 19, had all the responsibility of a club who felt they should be competing for titles, but had none of the foundations to do so and on top of that had periods of being shunted out to the wing.

It's true that he improved markedly when he came to us (along with his finishing), but it's also true that he got a fresh start in a better team with a manager who played to his strengths. The talent was always there for all to see, which is why he was followed for years by every top club in Europe. We just got lucky with our timing as A.Madrid finally accepted they had to sell.

Bent has gone from Charlton to the Spurs bench to Sunderland to Aston Villa. I wonder why a top club has never really gambled on him given that he's comparable to a player like Torres.
[/quote]

I think the reason a top club (unless you count spurs a top club) have not moved for bent is he offers next to nothing when he is not scoring.

 

[OLD_Lewy]

he holds the ball up pretty well

 

[Modo]

[quote author=SummerOnions link=topic=44968.msg1355116#msg1355116 date=1309009865]
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=44968.msg1354861#msg1354861 date=1308990824]
Wickham looks like a serious prospect.

But other than we're paying more, does anybody else get the feeling we've become like Martin O'Neill's Villa. Lot's of overpriced British players please.
[/quote]

Hopefully our wages are a lot lower though, and we don't end up with Reo-Coker, Harewood etc.
[/quote]

I need another equation to solve your mathematical problem there.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Lewy link=topic=44968.msg1355162#msg1355162 date=1309019784]
he holds the ball up pretty well
[/quote]

he does? I think his contribution to the team other than putting the ball in the back of the net (to be fair that's what he is paid to do and he is very good at it) is pretty rubbish. that is why he will flit from mediocre club to mediocre club.

 

[OLD_Lewy]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=44968.msg1355174#msg1355174 date=1309020435]
[quote author=Lewy link=topic=44968.msg1355162#msg1355162 date=1309019784]
he holds the ball up pretty well
[/quote]

he does? I think his contribution to the team other than putting the ball in the back of the net (to be fair that's what he is paid to do and he is very good at it) is pretty rubbish. that is why he will flit from mediocre club to mediocre club.
[/quote]

to be honest thats probably more of an assumption by me rather than something ive observed

 

[Shadey]

According to the daily mirror Sunderland have agreed a £13m fee for Connor but Liverpool are still believed to be interested but need to match sunderlands fee.. Will it won't it happen :-\

 

[Pesam]

[quote author=Shadey link=topic=44968.msg1356355#msg1356355 date=1309239155]
According to the daily mirror Sunderland have agreed a £13m fee for Connor but Liverpool are still believed to be interested but need to match sunderlands fee.. Will it won't it happen :-\
[/quote]

£13m is too much, it could backfire on us if we don't sign him but I'd take that chance..........£10m maximum. Or we could offer them £10m with an extra £5m if he wins a full England cap.

 

[Richey]

[quote author=Pesam link=topic=44968.msg1356379#msg1356379 date=1309246317]
[quote author=Shadey link=topic=44968.msg1356355#msg1356355 date=1309239155]
According to the daily mirror Sunderland have agreed a £13m fee for Connor but Liverpool are still believed to be interested but need to match sunderlands fee.. Will it won't it happen :-\
[/quote]

£13m is too much, it could backfire on us if we don't sign him but I'd take that chance..........£10m maximum. Or we could offer them £10m with an extra £5m if he wins a full England cap.
[/quote]

It is a lot, but if he's banging in the goals in a few months and we're struggling we'll regret not paying that extra 3 million

 

[MomoWASright]

Bent is offside 80% of the time or something daft. Didn't opts have a stat stating he was offside nearly twice as much as the next Player? I'd imagine that would piss off your team mates a lot!

 

[FoxForceFive]

[quote author=momoWASboss link=topic=44968.msg1356382#msg1356382 date=1309247061]
Bent is offside 80% of the time or something daft. Didn't opts have a stat stating he was offside nearly twice as much as the next Player? I'd imagine that would piss off your team mates a lot!
[/quote]

The English Cisse.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=44968.msg1356384#msg1356384 date=1309247492]
[quote author=momoWASboss link=topic=44968.msg1356382#msg1356382 date=1309247061]
Bent is offside 80% of the time or something daft. Didn't opts have a stat stating he was offside nearly twice as much as the next Player? I'd imagine that would piss off your team mates a lot!
[/quote]

The English Cisse.
[/quote]

cisse was an idiot, a lot of the time he was caught offside replays showed he was actually onside but he was so quick the gap between the position he was in when the ball was played and the position he was in when the line flagged was huge.

if he had an ounce of sense he would delay his run knowing that he is so quick he would catch up to the ball.

 

[mark1975]

I really don't rate Bent that highly, I know he gets goals (alot sometimes) but as said, his all round play leaves alot to be desired, once his pace starts to diminish he's got little left in the locker.

 

[Pesam]

[quote author=Richey link=topic=44968.msg1356381#msg1356381 date=1309246923]
[quote author=Pesam link=topic=44968.msg1356379#msg1356379 date=1309246317]
[quote author=Shadey link=topic=44968.msg1356355#msg1356355 date=1309239155]
According to the daily mirror Sunderland have agreed a £13m fee for Connor but Liverpool are still believed to be interested but need to match sunderlands fee.. Will it won't it happen :-\
[/quote]

£13m is too much, it could backfire on us if we don't sign him but I'd take that chance..........£10m maximum. Or we could offer them £10m with an extra £5m if he wins a full England cap.
[/quote]

It is a lot, but if he's banging in the goals in a few months and we're struggling we'll regret not paying that extra 3 million
[/quote]


And if we pay the £13m and he isn't banging in goals?

 

[Richey]

Well it wouldn't be that much worse than spending 10 million really.

I do think we need more up front. If we don't buy this fella - and I've not seen him play so can only go on what others say - then would we be likely to get better at a similar kind of price?

 

[Delinquent]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=44968.msg1356388#msg1356388 date=1309247837]
[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=44968.msg1356384#msg1356384 date=1309247492]
[quote author=momoWASboss link=topic=44968.msg1356382#msg1356382 date=1309247061]
Bent is offside 80% of the time or something daft. Didn't opts have a stat stating he was offside nearly twice as much as the next Player? I'd imagine that would piss off your team mates a lot!
[/quote]

The English Cisse.
[/quote]

cisse was an idiot, a lot of the time he was caught offside replays showed he was actually onside but he was so quick the gap between the position he was in when the ball was played and the position he was in when the line flagged was huge.

if he had an ounce of sense he would delay his run knowing that he is so quick he would catch up to the ball.
[/quote]

Nah, he was definitely offside. That's why he was so infuriating. Just a very dim footballer.

 

[Pesam]

[quote author=Richey link=topic=44968.msg1356401#msg1356401 date=1309249671]
Well it wouldn't be that much worse than spending 10 million really.

I do think we need more up front. If we don't buy this fella - and I've not seen him play so can only go on what others say - then would we be likely to get better at a similar kind of price?
[/quote]

For £3m we could get Craig Mikael Smith from Peterborough and he's every bit as likely to score 15 goals at this level as Wickham. The difference being he's 27 and he's in the final year of his contract - he has just turned down a move to Norwich.

 

[Gary25]

[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=44968.msg1356391#msg1356391 date=1309248100]
I really don't rate Bent that highly, I know he gets goals (alot sometimes) but as said, his all round play leaves alot to be desired, once his pace starts to diminish he's got little left in the locker.
[/quote]

Darren Bent is a funny one. He really doesn't contribute anything other than goals which is arguably all a striker needs to do to be fair.

You have to admire his goalscoring record, but he's devoid of any real class. Poor touch, poor link up play, poor awareness.

 

[Judge Jules]

[quote author=Pesam link=topic=44968.msg1356410#msg1356410 date=1309251124]
[quote author=Richey link=topic=44968.msg1356401#msg1356401 date=1309249671]
Well it wouldn't be that much worse than spending 10 million really.

I do think we need more up front. If we don't buy this fella - and I've not seen him play so can only go on what others say - then would we be likely to get better at a similar kind of price?
[/quote]

For £3m we could get Craig Mikael Smith from Peterborough and he's every bit as likely to score 15 goals at this level as Wickham. The difference being he's 27 and he's in the final year of his contract - he has just turned down a move to Norwich.


[/quote]

Leicester and West Ham both sniffing around him now apparently.

 

[Richey]

Certainly sounds like a good move Pesam but its not one we are likely to make is it?

more likely we'll pay the extra for Wickham or go for a different young striker.

 

[Pesam]

[quote author=Richey link=topic=44968.msg1356423#msg1356423 date=1309252141]
Certainly sounds like a good move Pesam but its not one we are likely to make is it?

more likely we'll pay the extra for Wickham or go for a different young striker.
[/quote]

It's very unlikely we'd make a move for him but I would - I genuinely believe he could be good enough for a starting place at a top 4 team and I'm stunned that it's taken him until now to be linked with top Championship teams and one EPL team! He reminds me a lot of Bellamy but I think he's a more intelligent version.