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Emery - undervalued?

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Frogfish

Gone to Redcafe
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I was going to post this in another thread but decided it may be worth a thread of its own :

I thought it worth taking a closer look at his (short - effectively 14 months of actual management time in action since he arrived in July) time at Arsenal (the one 'blot' in his career). If we're not getting Xabi (my first choice) then I'd prefer Emery, he's managed (well) big clubs, big players and has had huge European success as well as laying the groundwork at Arsenal for their team today (Saliba, Martinelli, Saka).

And note this from ESPN on Emery's only full season at Arsenal : many of Arsenal's most memorable big-game performances this season have featured an emphasis on pressing tactics and playing out from the back.

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Firstly the players he brought in (amongst others, but there weren't a lot in 3 transfer windows) : Saliba, Martinelli, Tierney and Leno (we won't talk about Pepe). 4 players between £20m and £25m plus Pepe who flopped at ca. £72m. A few smaller purchases.

His first team on arrival (serious issues right through the team/squad):
Czech, Bellerin, Mustafi, Sokratis, Maitland-Niles, Guendouzi, Xhaka, Ramsey, Ozil, Mkhitaryan, Aubameyang.

His last team when he departed 1 year later : Martinez, Chambers, Mustafi, Sokratis, Tierney, Luiz, Xhaka, Willock (Ozil), Martinelli, Aubameyang, Saka.
What is interesting here is that Emery brought in both Martinelli (signed for the Youth team but Emery debuted him at 17 yo) and Saka (from the academy) debuted a few days past his 17th birthday, as Emery had already started the transition away from an aging squad.

It is noticeable is how he completely revamped (ha - see what I did there) the team in just 1 season but was not given any time to develop it. Imagine if we'd ditched Klopp after his first season (Klopp 8th and Emery was 6th, in their first season), whilst he too totally turned over the team, only 5 starters remaining for the next season.

Emery was far from a complete flop there either (Emery won 43 of his 78 games in charge of Arsenal – a percentage only marginally worse than his current one at Aston Villa, and taking them to the EL final).

Arsenal won 1.85 points per game during his time there (he's averaging 1.90 pts at Villa) averaging 2 goals per game. Finishing 5th in his first season in charge (Wenger 6th the season before) with a terrible managerial setup (see the comments below on Gazidis) and squad. For comparison Klopp had 1.60 / 2.00 / 1.97 points per season over his first 3 seasons.


He was also unlucky in that full season, defensively losing Koscielny in the first half of the campaign and there were also season-ending injuries to Rob Holding (15 starts, zero defeats) and Hector Bellerin.
He was sacked after, having started with 1 defeat in the first 8 games (to us, 3-1) Arsenal then had a 7 game winless streak (D4 L3).

MEDIUM article : The problem for Arsenal for a long time was their recruitment. Emery wanted to play attacking football, he wanted to be a protagonist and play out from the back, just like he did later at Villarreal and now at Aston Villa, but he didn’t had the players do it well, so he tried to find another ways until nothing worked.

Ivan Gazidis the CEO of the club at the time when Emery was appointed, wanted to change the whole structure of how the club works after the Arséne Wenger area. Preparing for the inevitable departure of Arséne Wenger, he brought in Sven Mislintat to the club to be the head of recruitment, and he also got Raúl Sanllehi for the role of Head of Football and he still wanted a technical director. He wanted to move away from the model of Wenger’s time where one man controlled everything. Unai Emery came just to be the head coach, not a manager. He was responsible for preparing the team but not much else. But Gazidis left the club just a few month later, and left a huge power struggle behind him between the members of the new structure. Arsenal was a mess, the squad was badly structured for years so was their recruitment.

ESPN : interesting comments.
One of the biggest positives of Emery's first year in charge has been Arsenal's improvement in the big games. In total, they have accrued 12 points from 10 Premier League meetings with their top-six rivals, giving them a superior record to Chelsea, Manchester United or Tottenham. It is twice as many points as they managed in Arsene Wenger's final season and more, too, than in any of the three campaigns before that.

Their old problems resurfaced in the 5-1 thrashing by Liverpool at Anfield in December, but that defeat stands out as an anomaly rather than the norm.
The victories at home to Tottenham, Chelsea and Manchester United were hugely encouraging, and Emery's men were unfortunate not to add Liverpool to that list, drawing 1-1 at the Emirates Stadium in November. Arsenal gained more points from home games against the top six than in any of their previous 10 seasons.

There could easily have been victories away from home, too. Arsenal were unfortunate not to beat Spurs at Wembley in March, with Pierre-Emerick Aubameyang's late missed penalty proving costly, and they will also reflect on the 2-2 draw with United in December as two points dropped.

Emery has instilled belief in his players where it was previously lacking. But it has not happened by magic. It comes from a level of tactical preparation that Arsenal lacked under Wenger. Instead of playing into the hands of their top-six opponents, Arsenal are now set up to exploit their weaknesses and the players clearly buy into it.
The new-found belief was most apparent at home to Spurs, when they roared back from 2-1 down to claim an electrifying 4-2 win. Emery was rewarded for his boldness that day, his half-time changes paying off emphatically, and it was also a demonstration of the aggressive, high-pressing tactics which have become a feature of Arsenal's best performances.
 
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Obviously a good and experienced coach, not at all convinced he's right for the very biggest jobs.
Despite doing the 'quad' at PSG? Yes I know it's a one horse race in France but not every PSG manager has done it or handled the stars.

And we're comparing a very experienced and successful manager with one from a ridiculously weak league with far less experience in terms of big matches, handling top players and competing in Europe! The only other top team I can think of appointing such an unproven manager is United with Ten Hag.
 
Despite doing the 'quad' at PSG? Yes I know it's a one horse race in France but not every PSG manager has done it or handled the stars.

And we're comparing a very experienced and successful manager with one from a ridiculously weak league with far less experience in terms of big matches, handling top players and competing in Europe! The only other top team I can think of appointing such an unproven manager is United with Ten Hag.

Ange says hello.
 
Emery isn't gonna move. He has 100% the backing of the fans and board. If he gets the club into Europe, he is over achieving.
If he comes to LFC, he is not gonna be backed by huge chunk of the local crowd which will turn the air toxic after losses
 
It's surprising Emery is not higher up the list. He would be my PL manager of choice. Whether he's the right for not us debatable, but let's face it, it's easy to find reasons not to hire each and every one of the candidates. There isn't anything like a Jurgen Klopp waiting to be hired.
 
I’m warming to the idea of Emery but in fixing Gerrards dogs dinner he looks like a relative superstar now, the Villa squad under Stevie were underperforming.

There’s a lot to be said for fixing messes and raising players performances though, getting players to perform is half the battle.
 
I like emery, a lot. Just feels a very underwhelming and a decidedly sensible appointment should it transpire. Where's the lunacy?
 
He’s head to head record against Guardiola and the Arsenal job looking like it was too big a job are the main reasons not to go for Emery
 
I think his experience in the arse job wins it for me. He'd know as well as anyone what the pitfalls are, even though this is very different. Arsenal had gone off like smelly milk, the squad was a load of whining maggots and he spoke no English. And as for having a poor record against pep, that'd be him and everyone else minus one.
 
He’s head to head record against Guardiola and the Arsenal job looking like it was too big a job are the main reasons not to go for Emery
Did you read the opening post mate? He wasn't managing Liverpool or today's Arsenal. He had the equivalent of today's United.
 
My top choice the whole time, but there's no chance, we are going to get some guy who will learn on the job, and give them a team that can win things immediately. Mostly because there aren't great options.
 
Did you read the opening post mate? He wasn't managing Liverpool or today's Arsenal. He had the equivalent of today's United.

I did but I also read Arsenal players made fun of him. That’s says a lot about the Arsenal players but also something about Emery.

I wouldn’t be against Emery but no matter who we get, it’s going to be a downgrade
 
Emery seems a sensible option and I think that what kind of bores me a bit about it, too sensible?
I always feel like Jurgen would get bored with this idea of a break and would return with a year. More inclined to a potentially safe pair of boring hands in the mean time like Pep or Zidane on a short term deal.
 
Emery seems a sensible option and I think that what kind of bores me a bit about it, too sensible?
I always feel like Jurgen would get bored with this idea of a break and would return with a year. More inclined to a potentially safe pair of boring hands in the mean time like Pep or Zidane on a short term deal.
Lets face it, if Klopp leaves at the end of this season, we are done with him. I don't think his second coming will ignite any similar passions and radiate the same level of warmth and belief that players and fans have for him.
FSG just needs to get the next best manager there's out there. If there isn't one, then let's build one ourself like we do with our own academy players. Get the likes of Pep and company to manage clubs in other leagues while keeping strong links with LFC. Imagine if Xabi was a manager student of our own, we could have been confident of him taking over soon.
 
My memory was clearly rusty. I hadn't realized Emery's stay at Arsenal was so short. He failed there but, as Froggy has expanded on, it was a shitshow of a club at the time and he did provide some of the foundations Arteta is benefitting from now.
 
Despite doing the 'quad' at PSG? Yes I know it's a one horse race in France but not every PSG manager has done it or handled the stars.

And we're comparing a very experienced and successful manager with one from a ridiculously weak league with far less experience in terms of big matches, handling top players and competing in Europe! The only other top team I can think of appointing such an unproven manager is United with Ten Hag.

Eh? Teams generally appoint unproven managers in those terms. You get a go at a big club if you've done a great job at a lesser club. Don't see the problem.
 
I think he has a higher average than most managers we have linked with but a lower ceiling. Feels like a Europa league version of 2004-2008 Rafa.
 
I think he has a higher average than most managers we have linked with but a lower ceiling. Feels like a Europa league version of 2004-2008 Rafa.

More or less sums it up for me.

I think most fans would prefer a punt on someone who's a bit inexperienced but seems to have potential to be great than a safe bet on a decent but less than stellar candidate. I tend to feel the same.
 
More or less sums it up for me.

I think most fans would prefer a punt on someone who's a bit inexperienced but seems to have potential to be great than a safe bet on a decent but less than stellar candidate. I tend to feel the same.
Give Emery a different name and with his performance at Villa, turning them around from the Gerrard shit-show, and half this forum would be touting him.
 
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