End of Season's ranking
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So according to you, Nunez had a better season than both Jota and Diaz?
I'm guessing Nunez beat Jota just by being fitter and that's enough to give him a 7?
The player we on this forum have dedicated a thread to and it's called "The Donkey"?
Sorry Blue, not having that.
Alisson 8
Irish Kev 7
Bradley 8
Trent 7
Konate 6
VVD 9
Quansah 8
Gomez 7
Tsimikas 5
Robbo 6
Endo 8
CJ 6
Grav 5
Ali Mac 8
Dom 6
Elliott 8
Salah 7
Nunez 5
Gakpo 6
Diaz 7
Jota 7
A '5' for Nunez seems low but I'm keeping it simple, he was bought to score goals 18 goals in the 54 games isn't good enough especially when 5 are in the Europa League against shit teams in the group stage. 36 PL games, 11 goals.
EDIT:
Another interesting stat:
32 games in all comp, 15 goals. 10 goals in the Prem in 21 apps.
Yeah that's Jota.
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We also have a thread called the DeAss dedicated to Diaz. Jota was injured for huge chunk and I am afraid it did play a part in his ranking, the same with CJ
Yes, Nunez is 100& frustrating but he has inmy book he is our 2nd best striker. If the goals were couple inch wider and taller, he would be Golden Boot winner.
People are free to disagree with me
DeAss was our 2nd best striker?
Alisson 8 (some loss for being out injured and the occasional flappy game)
Irish Kev 7 (stepped up, did well, not totally confident he's a top keeper though)
Bradley 8
Trent 7
Konate 6 (overall had a pretty poor season)
VVD 9
Quansah 8
Gomez 8
Tsimikas 5
Robbo 6.5 (had a good end to the season, first half hampered by poor form and injury)
Endo 8
CJ 5.5
Grav 5
Ali Mac 8.5
Dom 7
Elliott 7.5
Salah 8
Nunez 6.5 (decent first half, poor second half)
Gakpo 6.5 (decent second half, poor first half)
Diaz 7 (for sheer menace it should be more, let down by actual output)
Jota 7.5
Irish Kev 7 (stepped up, did well, not totally confident he's a top keeper though)
Bradley 8
Trent 7
Konate 6 (overall had a pretty poor season)
VVD 9
Quansah 8
Gomez 8
Tsimikas 5
Robbo 6.5 (had a good end to the season, first half hampered by poor form and injury)
Endo 8
CJ 5.5
Grav 5
Ali Mac 8.5
Dom 7
Elliott 7.5
Salah 8
Nunez 6.5 (decent first half, poor second half)
Gakpo 6.5 (decent second half, poor first half)
Diaz 7 (for sheer menace it should be more, let down by actual output)
Jota 7.5
Alisson 8
Irish Kev 8
Bradley 8
Trent 7
Konate 7
VVD 9
Quansah 8
Gomez 7
Tsimikas 4
Robbo 6
Endo 7
CJ 6
Grav 6
Ali Mac 8
Dom 6.5
Elliott 7
Salah 7
Nunez 6.5
Gakpo 6.5
Diaz 7
Jota 7
I think some people need to remember the highs and the lows of some players and not just the games that stick in the memory (e.g. Jones, Gravy, Endo and Elliott).
Irish Kev 8
Bradley 8
Trent 7
Konate 7
VVD 9
Quansah 8
Gomez 7
Tsimikas 4
Robbo 6
Endo 7
CJ 6
Grav 6
Ali Mac 8
Dom 6.5
Elliott 7
Salah 7
Nunez 6.5
Gakpo 6.5
Diaz 7
Jota 7
I think some people need to remember the highs and the lows of some players and not just the games that stick in the memory (e.g. Jones, Gravy, Endo and Elliott).
Yes.
And thats why we finished 3rd
Alisson 8 - some worldie saves, but that annual alisson injury just seems to keep popping up
Irish Kev 8 - able understudy and can't complain he wants to move on.
Bradley 7 - don't know what more he could do to show klopp we should play wit ha traditional RB?
Trent 6.5 - i really don't feel he was that good this season
Konate 6 - inconsistent and injury prone. Some imperious games, some shite ones
VVD 8 - i still think he's too laid back at times
Quansah 7.5 - i don't think i could ask more of the lad.
Gomez 7.5 - a pleasant surprise and versatile
Tsimikas 4 - did nothing
Robbo 6 - was injured
Endo 7 - excelled when eh broke in the squad, faded as the season went on.
CJ 6 - did little to stake a claim
Grav 5 - Fucking muck, had 1 good game, got injured, the hype builds, comes back slightly better than muck but still a bit muck. Lots to do
Ali Mac 8.5 - Should have a higher score, but the early efforts as a 6 made him look ropey. Excelled when actually allowed to play to his strengths
Dom 6 - early promise faded, then got injured, then looked shite
Elliott 8 - the fucking boy. Started the season weirdly; great as a sub, poor as a starter. Never hid, and eventually became consistent.
Salah 7 - An irritating season where he was shite, and still got goals and assists.
Nunez 5 - Benched at the start, a few great cameos to then deserve consistent starts...but the goals didn't come . I love him, but like Lennie, we need to let him think about the rabbit farm and shoot him in the back of the skull
Gakpo 6 - torn on this. Started middle, went poor, came back strong.
Diaz 6 - "boo hoo my dad was kidnapped", shite for half the season, then remembered to pass the ball
Jota 6 - whats the point of being a great goalscorer if you're injured all the fucking time? At least with fowler we got the benefit of a few years first
Irish Kev 8 - able understudy and can't complain he wants to move on.
Bradley 7 - don't know what more he could do to show klopp we should play wit ha traditional RB?
Trent 6.5 - i really don't feel he was that good this season
Konate 6 - inconsistent and injury prone. Some imperious games, some shite ones
VVD 8 - i still think he's too laid back at times
Quansah 7.5 - i don't think i could ask more of the lad.
Gomez 7.5 - a pleasant surprise and versatile
Tsimikas 4 - did nothing
Robbo 6 - was injured
Endo 7 - excelled when eh broke in the squad, faded as the season went on.
CJ 6 - did little to stake a claim
Grav 5 - Fucking muck, had 1 good game, got injured, the hype builds, comes back slightly better than muck but still a bit muck. Lots to do
Ali Mac 8.5 - Should have a higher score, but the early efforts as a 6 made him look ropey. Excelled when actually allowed to play to his strengths
Dom 6 - early promise faded, then got injured, then looked shite
Elliott 8 - the fucking boy. Started the season weirdly; great as a sub, poor as a starter. Never hid, and eventually became consistent.
Salah 7 - An irritating season where he was shite, and still got goals and assists.
Nunez 5 - Benched at the start, a few great cameos to then deserve consistent starts...but the goals didn't come . I love him, but like Lennie, we need to let him think about the rabbit farm and shoot him in the back of the skull
Gakpo 6 - torn on this. Started middle, went poor, came back strong.
Diaz 6 - "boo hoo my dad was kidnapped", shite for half the season, then remembered to pass the ball
Jota 6 - whats the point of being a great goalscorer if you're injured all the fucking time? At least with fowler we got the benefit of a few years first
Alisson - 9 - Still the best there is when fit.
Irish Kev - 9 - Did better than we could have reasonably expected when we needed him.
Bradley - 8 - Looks like the find of the season.
Trent - 5 - Not a good season, knocking at least a full point off for that unacceptable 'effort' on the back post for their 2nd at goodison. Not even remotely ok from anybody in red, never mind our local-born vice-captain.
Konate - 6 - Up and down with injuries and form.
VVD - 8 - Better than last season, not nearly as good as before, still reads his own press clippings too often for my liking.
Quansah - 8 - Fantastic, under the circumstances.
Gomez - 7 - A far better season (and player) than most will acknowledge.
Tsimikas - 5 - Don't remember him doing anything good. or bad. Or at all.
Robbo - 6 - Deffo slowing down, still has the occasional cracking game in him, but becoming more of a squad player, for me.
Endo - 7 - Brilliant when most needed, seemed to tire later in the season...
CJ - 5 - See Costas.
Grav - 5 - Disappointing start to life here. Looked good occasionally, but more often than not, looked anonymous.
Ali Mac - 9 - Love him. Did better at 6 than most will admit, excelled when allowed to play further forward. He's a gem.
Dom - 6 - Unplayable for 6 weeks, unwatchable at the end. Next season is a biggie for him.
Elliott - 8 - Wasn't always brilliant, but never, ever stopped trying and at times was all we had going forward. We asked to much of him at times, and he delivered more than we should have expected him to.
Salah - 6 - Largely awful by his high standards, sometimes good. Goals and assists don't tell the whole story with this team, and he was a lot of what went wrong up front as well as our top scorer. Still terrifies me when he takes a penalty.
Nunez - 6 - Works his bollocks off, misses chances that I would bury... Such a confusing player. I genuinely still don't know what he is. Other than a prolific striker... He's absolutely NOT that.
Gakpo - 5 - Finished very well, but too little, too late to make it a good season for him. at times he looked like he'd rather be anywhere else than playing for us....
Diaz - 6 - Works as hard as Darwin, but often with the same end product. Which is terrifying. Love his effort. Hate how he misses as often as he does.
Jota - 6 - If he'd been fit all season, we'd have won the league. Shame the injuries are as predictable as the sunrise.
Irish Kev - 9 - Did better than we could have reasonably expected when we needed him.
Bradley - 8 - Looks like the find of the season.
Trent - 5 - Not a good season, knocking at least a full point off for that unacceptable 'effort' on the back post for their 2nd at goodison. Not even remotely ok from anybody in red, never mind our local-born vice-captain.
Konate - 6 - Up and down with injuries and form.
VVD - 8 - Better than last season, not nearly as good as before, still reads his own press clippings too often for my liking.
Quansah - 8 - Fantastic, under the circumstances.
Gomez - 7 - A far better season (and player) than most will acknowledge.
Tsimikas - 5 - Don't remember him doing anything good. or bad. Or at all.
Robbo - 6 - Deffo slowing down, still has the occasional cracking game in him, but becoming more of a squad player, for me.
Endo - 7 - Brilliant when most needed, seemed to tire later in the season...
CJ - 5 - See Costas.
Grav - 5 - Disappointing start to life here. Looked good occasionally, but more often than not, looked anonymous.
Ali Mac - 9 - Love him. Did better at 6 than most will admit, excelled when allowed to play further forward. He's a gem.
Dom - 6 - Unplayable for 6 weeks, unwatchable at the end. Next season is a biggie for him.
Elliott - 8 - Wasn't always brilliant, but never, ever stopped trying and at times was all we had going forward. We asked to much of him at times, and he delivered more than we should have expected him to.
Salah - 6 - Largely awful by his high standards, sometimes good. Goals and assists don't tell the whole story with this team, and he was a lot of what went wrong up front as well as our top scorer. Still terrifies me when he takes a penalty.
Nunez - 6 - Works his bollocks off, misses chances that I would bury... Such a confusing player. I genuinely still don't know what he is. Other than a prolific striker... He's absolutely NOT that.
Gakpo - 5 - Finished very well, but too little, too late to make it a good season for him. at times he looked like he'd rather be anywhere else than playing for us....
Diaz - 6 - Works as hard as Darwin, but often with the same end product. Which is terrifying. Love his effort. Hate how he misses as often as he does.
Jota - 6 - If he'd been fit all season, we'd have won the league. Shame the injuries are as predictable as the sunrise.
I'd go along with most of these. Salah 7 and Nunez 5 the rest spot on.
Alisson 8
Kelleher 8
Bradley 8
Trent 6.5
Konate 6
VVD 9
Quansah 7.5
Gomez 7.5
Tsimikas 3
Robbo 5
Endo 8
CJ 6
Grav 5
Ali Mac 8.5
Slob 6
Elliott 7
Salah 8
Nunez 6
Gakpo 5.5
Diaz 7
Jota 6
Kelleher 8
Bradley 8
Trent 6.5
Konate 6
VVD 9
Quansah 7.5
Gomez 7.5
Tsimikas 3
Robbo 5
Endo 8
CJ 6
Grav 5
Ali Mac 8.5
Slob 6
Elliott 7
Salah 8
Nunez 6
Gakpo 5.5
Diaz 7
Jota 6
I fell I need to point this out.
Dreamie, the man who strongly argued that that it was all the defences fault and not the forwards, has just rated the defenders, as an average, higher than the forwards in the end of season ranking.
The truth is out there and it’s always in the detail, when people reveal themselves.
Dreamie, the man who strongly argued that that it was all the defences fault and not the forwards, has just rated the defenders, as an average, higher than the forwards in the end of season ranking.
The truth is out there and it’s always in the detail, when people reveal themselves.
Petty, but I'm all for it.
It’s full on petty - absolutely - guilty your honour.
How long have you been reading Stevie’s posts???????
Why not? What he's said is 100% accurate. What's 'idiotic' about that?
Which bit’s not comparable?
You banged on about how the defence was the problem and not the forwards - yet you think the defenders had a better season.
That doesn’t make actual sense.
You just tie yourself up in knots mate,
It's a fair point you make. I don't remember all 38 and cannot confess to watching all 38, however, when defensive mistakes were made it was a combination of players.
When I do the rankings, I am not looking at charts, I am just remembering moments and those moments are dictating my scores. When I called out our defence, I didn't lay blame to one particular individual, its a combination + system. If we're 2 goal lead against the opposition and the they comeback to make it 3-3, who should I blame the attack or the defence.
Quansah and Bradley made some really bad mistakes but because its their first full season and many standout performances I gave them high scores.
Robbo, I gave 6, he came good at the end but had a poor season by his standard. I probably should have given Konate 6 thinking about it more, but couple of his performances with VVD persuaded me to up it 6.7 (I had Dave Portney in my head writing that.
I would have given Nunez an 8 if didn't do the shit he did with his Instagram, however, he wasn't twerking for Barca unlike another player
The defence was the main reason we didn’t win the league yes. The defence is a collective and the sum of the parts is always more important. As a whole our attack was far better than our leaky as fuck defence.
We were lucky we had two keepers who bailed us out all season long.
Put it another way I’d rate the areas of the team as a collective like this
Keeper - 7.5
Defence - 5
Midfield - 6
Attack - 8
Keeper - 7.5
Defence - 5
Midfield - 6
Attack - 8
Ah, Dreamie is cleverly applying the Moyes theorem here.
Proving that you don't need bad defenders for a bad defence but it is a bad defence. Or something.
Thankfully we're not yet at the point of considering that the units in the team are interdependant and each one plays a part in the others deficiencies otherwise the mental gymnastics we'd all have to employ could be world ending.
Proving that you don't need bad defenders for a bad defence but it is a bad defence. Or something.
Thankfully we're not yet at the point of considering that the units in the team are interdependant and each one plays a part in the others deficiencies otherwise the mental gymnastics we'd all have to employ could be world ending.
Even for you, this is pure madness...
This is mental though.
I'd actually agree with you in the sense that individual defensive performances were fine, very good in fact, but the defense collectively found itself in very difficult positions. That part isn't mental, it's that you put that down to collective defending, as though a defensive unit defends independent of the rest of the team. No. The TEAM defends. The team, including the attack is to blame for the amount of very high risk situations we find ourselves in defensively. The fact that often it is just a defensive unit defending IS the problem. This isn't american football.
This split between individual performance and the collective weakness of the team is because the team's structure was flawed. That structure is the entire team. Nunez can't control the center of a pitch, that's not his game, we don't have firmino. Gakpo was great at that last season, and then was poor for most of this, playing inconsistently in every sense of it. Salah was never a great presser, but fell off massively this season, he simply doesn't have the legs to contribute to defense and can't play the position he is now in the system we play. The midfield is meant to press high and contributed with more goals and more ideas, but they also gave up the ball too often, and struggled to cover a very weak flank down the right. The right back inverts but we aren't careful enough on the ball. Our play was lopsided, broadly. Our forwards weren't close enough to each other enough. Our midfield has some good players, but no one who is fast or athletic.
All of that shit puts your defense in bad situations, to where you can say "jesus this team leaks goals" but also "hey, Quansah is a revelation, VVD is back to his best..." and you give them a 6.5, 7 across the board.
But you blame the defense for that discrepancy.
When you have goal after goal where the midfield, which isn't athletic or fast, gets bypassed and our three defenders have to turn to run 3v3 or 4v4 straight at our goal as fast as they can, it doesn't matter what sort of drilling or telepathic understanding they have. A system of play is supposed to limit the amount of times that happens, and that's on the whole team. That shit happens sometimes anyway, and the defense then deal with it a decent percentage of the time? That's some great defending. No one can deal with it a lot though.
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