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England's Top Tackler

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mark1975

mark1975

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Lucas Leiva has made more tackles in the Barclays Premier League than any other player this season.

Eight challenges against Manchester City took the Brazilian's total to 139 for the 2010-11 campaign, according to Opta stats.

That's an average of a tackle every 16.7 minutes.

Lucas has played 41 games for Liverpool this term - more than any other player except Martin Skrtel (43) and Pepe Reina (44).

Last month the club rewarded his fine form with a new long-term contract.
 
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=44935.msg1314679#msg1314679 date=1302680959]
Lucas Leiva has made more tackles in the Barclays Premier League than any other player this season.

Eight challenges against Manchester City took the Brazilian's total to 139 for the 2010-11 campaign, according to Opta stats.

That's an average of a tackle every 16.7 minutes.

Lucas has played 41 games for Liverpool this term - more than any other player except Martin Skrtel (43) and Pepe Reina (44).

Last month the club rewarded his fine form with a new long-term contract.
[/quote]

I don't know how much can be made out of this though? I feel it only tells us we aren't able to control the midfield so he has to make a lot of tackles. There was a top five most tackles table somewhere and while Lucas had the most tackles his success % was the worst out of those five.
 
It's clear evidence of the amount of tackles he makes, it's the conclusions that can be drawn from that is where the lie comes in Spidey.
 
Would anyone actually describe Lucas as a 'good' tackler?

I mean, he makes tackles, but I don't think he's that good at them.

Certainly not in a Gerrard/Mascher/Momo way
 
I was always critical of Masch because he had nothing else to his game. I doubt a midfiled of Spearing and Masch would be doing anything better than this one. And I think a midfield of Alonso and Lucas would be pretty damn good.

Oh noes. I think I'm appreciating Lucas. He can do Masch's job adequately. And after the shit he's put up with, he must have some balls.
 
[quote author=singlerider link=topic=44935.msg1314724#msg1314724 date=1302686867]
Would anyone actually describe Lucas as a 'good' tackler?

I mean, he makes tackles, but I don't think he's that good at them.

Certainly not in a Gerrard/Mascher/Momo way
[/quote]

I always think he's about to give a foul away, but that's got less and less. He won pretty much everything he went for, even with his head, on Monday.
 
I think he's more of a ball-nicker than a tackler in the traditional sense. Meaning he'll put his foot and body in to muscle and steal the ball off the player or force the ball off and pick up the loose ball, rather then slide in and crunch some legs.
 
[quote author=Krump link=topic=44935.msg1314725#msg1314725 date=1302686923]
I was always critical of Masch because he had nothing else to his game. I doubt a midfiled of Spearing and Masch would be doing anything better than this one. And I think a midfield of Alonso and Lucas would be pretty damn good.

Oh noes. I think I'm appreciating Lucas. He can do Masch's job adequately. And after the shit he's put up with, he must have some balls.
[/quote]

Me too. I look at Madrids midfield of Alonso and Khedira and reckon lucas could do a similar job to khedira. He rode on the luck of that german team to madrid. Not to say he isnt good.....just that Lucas is so underrated by most Liverpool fans! Even my chelsea flat mate reckons he's a bit of a player!
 
the truth is, unlike some I don't hate lucas, I just think he is 'meh' (regards of what opta thinks).
decent passes, decent tackles, just 'meh' but is 'meh' enough to push us from midtable mediority to a CL (never mind the league title)?

he needs to release the ball faster and he needs to be stronger when shielding the ball. currently he is okay when we are at home and the opposition are standing off us but away from home when even lesser teams will come at us like a train I don't think he is enough to stem that tide.
 
[quote author=singlerider link=topic=44935.msg1314724#msg1314724 date=1302686867]
Would anyone actually describe Lucas as a 'good' tackler?

I mean, he makes tackles, but I don't think he's that good at them.

Certainly not in a Gerrard/Mascher/Momo way
[/quote]

It is a bit like the Pennant crossing stat before we signed him
 
[quote author=singlerider link=topic=44935.msg1314729#msg1314729 date=1302687033]
Well, he does still give away a lot of silly fouls in dangerous areas.

He tackles like me on FIFA
[/quote]

How many did he give away on Monday night? I think he has improved that area of his game as well.
 
who lucas have to make half the tackles he makes if he actually read the game? how many tackles did didi make on average? you position yourself and snuff out danger before it turns into a full blown threat, prevention is better than cure.
 
I was not joking when I said in the unpopular opinion thread that I am happy to have Lucas as our new Masher, he is good enough for that role now.

He is no worse than Fletcher, Carrick and other top teams "donkey work" CMs. You do not need 11 messi's (or afford them) in your team.

Masher was always overrated anyway as it has been shown since he left.

Lucas is good enough in the role for a PL winning team, lets not waste our money on another CM. Jay, Stevie, Ming and LL is good enough.

Look how crap Remieres was at first for the chavs, he will prove to be a top player as well.
 
[quote author=Fox link=topic=44935.msg1314741#msg1314741 date=1302688636]
I was not joking when I said in the unpopular opinion thread that I am happy to have Lucas as our new Masher, he is good enough for that role now.

Masher was always overrated anyway as it has been shown since he left.
[/quote]

This is complete shit.
 
[quote author=Fox link=topic=44935.msg1314741#msg1314741 date=1302688636]
I was not joking when I said in the unpopular opinion thread that I am happy to have Lucas as our new Masher, he is good enough for that role now.

He is no worse than Fletcher, Carrick and other top teams "donkey work" CMs. You do not need 11 messi's (or afford them) in your team.

Masher was always overrated anyway as it has been shown since he left.

Lucas is good enough in the role for a PL winning team, lets not waste our money on another CM. Jay, Stevie, Ming and LL is good enough.

Look how crap Remieres was at first for the chavs, he will prove to be a top player as well.
[/quote]

How has it been shown? We've obviously missed Masher in our midfield this season. We had to watch Poulsen plod about the pitch a few times which made me want to poke my eyes out. We got over ran in a lot of other games too. Masher didn't allow people glide past him, something Lucas and Poulsen can be found guilty of. Plus Masher's passing wasn't as bad as many made out. He clearly improved it and his ball retention was not a problem.

I think Masher and Meireles would have been a nice duo in the middle. It's a pity we didn't get a chance to see that in operation. I like Lucas but still don't think he is trusted in there as our DM. That is why we see him paired with Poulsen (at the start of the season) or Spearing (since Kenny took over). Two doing the one job and it means we have to push Raul out on the left.

Masher had the unique ability to act as a destroyer and would have excelled with a playmaker beside him ala Alonso. Lucas doesn't have Masher's physicality and power. We still need a destroyer but where does that leave Lucas? I have no problems with him starting for us and I appreciate what he brings but I struggle to see where exactly he fits for us as we continue to build a new team. He doesn't have the unique ability of shielding a defence on his own. He doesn't have the dynamism of a Gerrard to score and assist goals games after game. He doesn't have the guile of an Alonso to act as deep lying playmaker. Lucas is his own man, calm on the ball, big heart, gets stuck in, doesn't hide and is consistent at what he does. We'll just have to wait and see if we can find a place for him next season. He deserved his contract and is currently a regular for his national team. Fair play to him.
 
[quote author=ILD link=topic=44935.msg1314762#msg1314762 date=1302690118]
[quote author=Fox link=topic=44935.msg1314741#msg1314741 date=1302688636]
I was not joking when I said in the unpopular opinion thread that I am happy to have Lucas as our new Masher, he is good enough for that role now.

He is no worse than Fletcher, Carrick and other top teams "donkey work" CMs. You do not need 11 messi's (or afford them) in your team.

Masher was always overrated anyway as it has been shown since he left.

Lucas is good enough in the role for a PL winning team, lets not waste our money on another CM. Jay, Stevie, Ming and LL is good enough.

Look how crap Remieres was at first for the chavs, he will prove to be a top player as well.
[/quote]

How has it been shown? We've obviously missed Masher in our midfield this season. We had to watch Poulsen plod about the pitch a few times which made me want to poke my eyes out. We got over ran in a lot of other games too. Masher didn't allow people glide past him, something Lucas and Poulsen can be found guilty of. Plus Masher's passing wasn't as bad as many made out. He clearly improved it and his ball retention was not a problem.

I think Masher and Meireles would have been a nice duo in the middle. It's a pity we didn't get a chance to see that in operation. I like Lucas but still don't think he is trusted in there as our DM. That is why we see him paired with Poulsen (at the start of the season) or Spearing (since Kenny took over). Two doing the one job and it means we have to push Raul out on the left.

Masher had the unique ability to act as a destroyer and would have excelled with a playmaker beside him ala Alonso. Lucas doesn't have Masher's physicality and power. We still need a destroyer but where does that leave Lucas? I have no problems with him starting for us and I appreciate what he brings but I struggle to see where exactly he fits for us as we continue to build a new team. He doesn't have the unique ability of shielding a defence on his own. He doesn't have the dynamism of a Gerrard to score and assist goals games after game. He doesn't have the guile of an Alonso to act as deep lying playmaker. Lucas is his own man, calm on the ball, big heart, gets stuck in, doesn't hide and is consistent at what he does. We'll just have to wait and see if we can find a place for him next season. He deserved his contract and is currently a regular for his national team. Fair play to him.
[/quote]

we suffered at first when Masher left because Lucas was struggling and Poulsen is shit.

Lucas has improved massively and if this continues (he is only young) he is good enough for us in CM.

Masher had an average season before he left, he had some good games here and there. The protection he was supposed to give us was not obvious as we conceded shit loads that season and he offered nothing going forward, we all signed at his passing sometimes.

Masher was a good player but not worth £20 million and not world class, if Lucas keeps improving as he is he will be a top CM in time.
 
[quote author=Fox link=topic=44935.msg1314812#msg1314812 date=1302692329]
[quote author=ILD link=topic=44935.msg1314762#msg1314762 date=1302690118]
[quote author=Fox link=topic=44935.msg1314741#msg1314741 date=1302688636]
I was not joking when I said in the unpopular opinion thread that I am happy to have Lucas as our new Masher, he is good enough for that role now.

He is no worse than Fletcher, Carrick and other top teams "donkey work" CMs. You do not need 11 messi's (or afford them) in your team.

Masher was always overrated anyway as it has been shown since he left.

Lucas is good enough in the role for a PL winning team, lets not waste our money on another CM. Jay, Stevie, Ming and LL is good enough.

Look how crap Remieres was at first for the chavs, he will prove to be a top player as well.
[/quote]

How has it been shown? We've obviously missed Masher in our midfield this season. We had to watch Poulsen plod about the pitch a few times which made me want to poke my eyes out. We got over ran in a lot of other games too. Masher didn't allow people glide past him, something Lucas and Poulsen can be found guilty of. Plus Masher's passing wasn't as bad as many made out. He clearly improved it and his ball retention was not a problem.

I think Masher and Meireles would have been a nice duo in the middle. It's a pity we didn't get a chance to see that in operation. I like Lucas but still don't think he is trusted in there as our DM. That is why we see him paired with Poulsen (at the start of the season) or Spearing (since Kenny took over). Two doing the one job and it means we have to push Raul out on the left.

Masher had the unique ability to act as a destroyer and would have excelled with a playmaker beside him ala Alonso. Lucas doesn't have Masher's physicality and power. We still need a destroyer but where does that leave Lucas? I have no problems with him starting for us and I appreciate what he brings but I struggle to see where exactly he fits for us as we continue to build a new team. He doesn't have the unique ability of shielding a defence on his own. He doesn't have the dynamism of a Gerrard to score and assist goals games after game. He doesn't have the guile of an Alonso to act as deep lying playmaker. Lucas is his own man, calm on the ball, big heart, gets stuck in, doesn't hide and is consistent at what he does. We'll just have to wait and see if we can find a place for him next season. He deserved his contract and is currently a regular for his national team. Fair play to him.
[/quote]

we suffered at first when Masher left because Lucas was struggling and Poulsen is shit.

Lucas has improved massively and if this continues (he is only young) he is good enough for us in CM.

Masher had an average season before he left, he had some good games here and there. The protection he was supposed to give us was not obvious as we conceded shit loads that season and he offered nothing going forward, we all signed at his passing sometimes.

Masher was a good player but not worth £20 million and not world class, if Lucas keeps improving as he is he will be a top CM in time.


[/quote]

Sorry Fox, I can't agree with all that. He is a world class DM. We did frustrate us at times when he took the onus upon himself to try springboard attacks at times when partnered with Lucas but that isn't his game. We had no problem with him not scoring when he played alongside Alonso (who scored fuck all too) as Xabi could springboard our attacks and dictate the play. Lucas and Masher was a terrible midfield pairing and it cost us big time last season.

I'm a big fan of Lucas and constantly stick up for him but i'm not sure he can be a our number one DM next season. Is he trusted with say Meireles alongside him or will we still need added steel and power in there?
 
Last year, Masher, along with Pepe was one of our best players.

You are talking doo-doo, Fox.
 
Masher and Meireles would have been potentially very good together in centre mid.
Pity we never got to see it 🙁
 
Yup. The issue last season was not Masher, it was his completely imbalanced partnership with Lucas. Neither are particularly good at setting up attacks, which left us horribly ineffective in possession. Far too much energy was spent trying to win the ball back because we simply couldn't hold on to it. Neither Masher nor Lucas can win you a game on their own, but one is a significantly better at his job than the other.

It's all about balance, really.
 
[quote author=themn link=topic=44935.msg1314829#msg1314829 date=1302693272]
Last year, Masher, along with Pepe was one of our best players.

You are talking doo-doo, Fox.
[/quote]

put beautifully ;D

agree to disagree, never liked Masher
 
[quote author=Fox link=topic=44935.msg1314839#msg1314839 date=1302693822]
[quote author=themn link=topic=44935.msg1314829#msg1314829 date=1302693272]
Last year, Masher, along with Pepe was one of our best players.

You are talking doo-doo, Fox.
[/quote]

put beautifully ;D

agree to disagree, never liked Masher
[/quote]

I would have chosen another word but the *shit* option was taken.
 
A Liverpool player makes the top in a particular statistic and 'fans' queue up to rubbish the stat and him in particular as it doesn't tally with their perception of the player.

I'll say it and I'll say it again, he wins more tackles than any other DM and his pass completion rate is also very high. That indicates he wins the ball and he keeps it. Masher was never top tackler when he was here, and his passing also left a lot to be desired.

Even under Roy, Lucas was a consistent performer. It is the nature of the DM role to be almost invisible. That role is not about killer passes or 60 yard diaganol Hollywood balls. cf Claude Makalele, Didier Deschamps.
 
[quote author=KopKing link=topic=44935.msg1314846#msg1314846 date=1302694057]
A Liverpool player makes the top in a particular statistic and 'fans' queue up to rubbish the stat and him in particular as it doesn't tally with their perception of the player.

I'll say it and I'll say it again, he wins more tackles than any other DM and his pass completion rate is also very high. That indicates he wins the ball and he keeps it. Masher was never top tackler when he was here, and his passing also left a lot to be desired.

Even under Roy, Lucas was a consistent performer. It is the nature of the DM role to be almost invisible. That role is not about killer passes or 60 yard diaganol Hollywood balls. cf Claude Makalele, Didier Deschamps.
[/quote]

Masher's pass completion stats were every bit as good as Lucas'. He was consistently amongst the highest in the league. Yet you seem to think Masher's passing was poor. Perhaps the stats don't tell the full story?
 
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