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England's Top Tackler

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Lucas will always be Lucas. Average midfielder, average tackler, average passer and average player. No amount of stats going to change that.

If you based a player on stats, we don't need to watch them play just read the papers the next day or wait till end of the season for the stats to be compiled and there you go. Everyone happy. Bloody hell.
 
[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=44935.msg1315348#msg1315348 date=1302751565]

Someone mentioned a littler earlier that Lucas is not the sliding, bone crunching tackler that Mascher was and this is exactly right. Mascher would go in for thumping challenges - win more than he lost but give away plenty of free's. Lucas just puts a foot in to touch the ball away. The number of times the player dives without any contact is exceptional and I somtimes wonder if Refs haven't got Lucas on the "cheap foul" list before the game starts.


All that said, Mascher was by some way a better player; his passing was never as good as Lucas but it wasn't as bad as some try to remember it. He got in trouble when he tried to go forward with a defence splitting pass but otherwise kept possession.


Also, just for the comments on who the other top tacklers are; Chelsea don't have one cause Essien and Lampard have been injured so much, Mikel has been in and out of the team and Ramirez can't tackle. The mancs don't have one cause all their players do it - Carric, Fletcher, Rooney; they all go back and tackle. Arsenal aren't in there cause none of them go in for the tackle.

Lucas is in there cause he's the only one (apart from Poulsen..... so, still the only one) who does the tackling. Ming rarely gets involved, Stevie has been injured or guilty of leaving it to Lucas. Spearing hasn't been in the team enough. The number of times that Lucas has been left to face the oncoming hordes on his own is huge this season and the main reason, IMO, that he's in the top tacklers brigade.
[/quote]

Of course. It couldn't actually be that he's any good at it. No way. It's all those other reasons.
 
Sooner or later RAWKitis will be a recognised mental health condition.

There seems to be an outbreak in Australia at the moment.
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=44935.msg1315355#msg1315355 date=1302753293]
[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=44935.msg1315348#msg1315348 date=1302751565]

Someone mentioned a littler earlier that Lucas is not the sliding, bone crunching tackler that Mascher was and this is exactly right. Mascher would go in for thumping challenges - win more than he lost but give away plenty of free's. Lucas just puts a foot in to touch the ball away. The number of times the player dives without any contact is exceptional and I somtimes wonder if Refs haven't got Lucas on the "cheap foul" list before the game starts.


All that said, Mascher was by some way a better player; his passing was never as good as Lucas but it wasn't as bad as some try to remember it. He got in trouble when he tried to go forward with a defence splitting pass but otherwise kept possession.


Also, just for the comments on who the other top tacklers are; Chelsea don't have one cause Essien and Lampard have been injured so much, Mikel has been in and out of the team and Ramirez can't tackle. The mancs don't have one cause all their players do it - Carric, Fletcher, Rooney; they all go back and tackle. Arsenal aren't in there cause none of them go in for the tackle.

Lucas is in there cause he's the only one (apart from Poulsen..... so, still the only one) who does the tackling. Ming rarely gets involved, Stevie has been injured or guilty of leaving it to Lucas. Spearing hasn't been in the team enough. The number of times that Lucas has been left to face the oncoming hordes on his own is huge this season and the main reason, IMO, that he's in the top tacklers brigade.
[/quote]

Of course. It couldn't actually be that he's any good at it. No way. It's all those other reasons.
[/quote]

ryan, why is it that you think lucas is anything other than average?
he has no exceptional pace, power, passing ability, crossing ability, goal scoring ability, awareness, vison. so why on earth do you take exception to people calling lucas average? he is an average performer in a currently decididly average team.

I do get why you take exception to people calling him shit, he isn't shit.
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=44935.msg1315371#msg1315371 date=1302764458]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=44935.msg1315355#msg1315355 date=1302753293]
[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=44935.msg1315348#msg1315348 date=1302751565]

Someone mentioned a littler earlier that Lucas is not the sliding, bone crunching tackler that Mascher was and this is exactly right. Mascher would go in for thumping challenges - win more than he lost but give away plenty of free's. Lucas just puts a foot in to touch the ball away. The number of times the player dives without any contact is exceptional and I somtimes wonder if Refs haven't got Lucas on the "cheap foul" list before the game starts.


All that said, Mascher was by some way a better player; his passing was never as good as Lucas but it wasn't as bad as some try to remember it. He got in trouble when he tried to go forward with a defence splitting pass but otherwise kept possession.


Also, just for the comments on who the other top tacklers are; Chelsea don't have one cause Essien and Lampard have been injured so much, Mikel has been in and out of the team and Ramirez can't tackle. The mancs don't have one cause all their players do it - Carric, Fletcher, Rooney; they all go back and tackle. Arsenal aren't in there cause none of them go in for the tackle.

Lucas is in there cause he's the only one (apart from Poulsen..... so, still the only one) who does the tackling. Ming rarely gets involved, Stevie has been injured or guilty of leaving it to Lucas. Spearing hasn't been in the team enough. The number of times that Lucas has been left to face the oncoming hordes on his own is huge this season and the main reason, IMO, that he's in the top tacklers brigade.
[/quote]

Of course. It couldn't actually be that he's any good at it. No way. It's all those other reasons.
[/quote]

ryan, why is it that you think lucas is anything other than average?
he has no exceptional pace, power, passing ability, crossing ability, goal scoring ability, awareness, vison. so why on earth do you take exception to people calling lucas average? he is an average performer in a currently decididly average team.

I do get why you take exception to people calling him shit, he isn't shit.
[/quote]

Is it so important what Ryan's opinion on Lucas? Both of them are average. One is an average poster and the other is an average player.
 
[quote author=Glock link=topic=44935.msg1315376#msg1315376 date=1302765268]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=44935.msg1315371#msg1315371 date=1302764458]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=44935.msg1315355#msg1315355 date=1302753293]
[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=44935.msg1315348#msg1315348 date=1302751565]

Someone mentioned a littler earlier that Lucas is not the sliding, bone crunching tackler that Mascher was and this is exactly right. Mascher would go in for thumping challenges - win more than he lost but give away plenty of free's. Lucas just puts a foot in to touch the ball away. The number of times the player dives without any contact is exceptional and I somtimes wonder if Refs haven't got Lucas on the "cheap foul" list before the game starts.


All that said, Mascher was by some way a better player; his passing was never as good as Lucas but it wasn't as bad as some try to remember it. He got in trouble when he tried to go forward with a defence splitting pass but otherwise kept possession.


Also, just for the comments on who the other top tacklers are; Chelsea don't have one cause Essien and Lampard have been injured so much, Mikel has been in and out of the team and Ramirez can't tackle. The mancs don't have one cause all their players do it - Carric, Fletcher, Rooney; they all go back and tackle. Arsenal aren't in there cause none of them go in for the tackle.

Lucas is in there cause he's the only one (apart from Poulsen..... so, still the only one) who does the tackling. Ming rarely gets involved, Stevie has been injured or guilty of leaving it to Lucas. Spearing hasn't been in the team enough. The number of times that Lucas has been left to face the oncoming hordes on his own is huge this season and the main reason, IMO, that he's in the top tacklers brigade.
[/quote]

Of course. It couldn't actually be that he's any good at it. No way. It's all those other reasons.
[/quote]

ryan, why is it that you think lucas is anything other than average?
he has no exceptional pace, power, passing ability, crossing ability, goal scoring ability, awareness, vison. so why on earth do you take exception to people calling lucas average? he is an average performer in a currently decididly average team.

I do get why you take exception to people calling him shit, he isn't shit.
[/quote]

Is it so important what Ryan's opinion on Lucas? Both of them are average. One is an average poster and the other is an average player.
[/quote]

I value everyone's opinion on this forum 🙂
 
[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=44935.msg1315348#msg1315348 date=1302751565]

Also, just for the comments on who the other top tacklers are; Chelsea don't have one cause Essien and Lampard have been injured so much, Mikel has been in and out of the team and Ramirez can't tackle. The mancs don't have one cause all their players do it - Carric, Fletcher, Rooney; they all go back and tackle. Arsenal aren't in there cause none of them go in for the tackle.

Lucas is in there cause he's the only one (apart from Poulsen..... so, still the only one) who does the tackling. Ming rarely gets involved, Stevie has been injured or guilty of leaving it to Lucas. Spearing hasn't been in the team enough. The number of times that Lucas has been left to face the oncoming hordes on his own is huge this season and the main reason, IMO, that he's in the top tacklers brigade.
[/quote]

I suspect a big factor why none of the players from top teams are there is that they are much better at keeping possession hence need to make less tackles.

Agree with the latter part although also if our midfield and team altogether was better at keeping possession there wouldn't be need to make all those tackles.

Anyway, I still can't see how this stat would in anyway indicate how Lucas is a great tackler. Surely the better indicator would be the win rate which in Lucas' case is clearly the worst of the five players listed?
 
Lucas is average, but he has good positional sense defensively, and he is a good tackler.

He's not anywhere near as good defensively as Mascherano, because he doesn't have half his athleticism or speed, so if play breaks down and a team is coming at us with some pace, he just gets bypassed.

He's also not that physical, and he can get bullied.

It's a bit silly to try and explain away the statistic. He's a tidy tackler.
 
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=44935.msg1315410#msg1315410 date=1302768266]
Lucas is average, but he has good positional sense defensively, and he is a good tackler.

He's not anywhere near as good defensively as Mascherano, because he doesn't have half his athleticism or speed, so if play breaks down and a team is coming at us with some pace, he just gets bypassed.

He's also not that physical, and he can get bullied.

It's a bit silly to try and explain away the statistic. He's a tidy tackler.
[/quote]

Tidy tackler??? Hilarious stuff!

Try and get the stats of how many 'tidy' tackles he converted which resulted to freekicks for the opposition.
 
Lucas is a persistent fouler. They're rarely malicious challenges - they're just mistimed. I've certainly never got the feeling that he's hard done by by referees. While he does nick plenty away, he also makes completely pointless tackles, where he has absolutely no hope of winning the ball.

There tend to be several moments in a game where I'm screaming for him not to attempt a challenge, but he always does. If he can cut those out of his game (and those who say he has are wrong), then I think the tide will turn that little bit more.

Oh, and neither Lampard or Carrick can tackle for shit. In fact, their skillsets are very small indeed.
 
[quote author=KopKing link=topic=44935.msg1315062#msg1315062 date=1302710113]
[quote author=Fallon link=topic=44935.msg1314980#msg1314980 date=1302705987]
[quote author=RolandG link=topic=44935.msg1314938#msg1314938 date=1302700843]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=44935.msg1314679#msg1314679 date=1302680959]
Lucas Leiva has made more tackles in the Barclays Premier League than any other player this season.

Eight challenges against Manchester City took the Brazilian's total to 139 for the 2010-11 campaign, according to Opta stats.

That's an average of a tackle every 16.7 minutes.

Lucas has played 41 games for Liverpool this term - more than any other player except Martin Skrtel (43) and Pepe Reina (44).

Last month the club rewarded his fine form with a new long-term contract.
[/quote]

Lucas is by no means the best defensive midfielder in the league but he is improving in leaps and bounds, thats a fact. That he is putting in the tackles is great, he is supposed to. However, he needs to stop giving away silly fouls in dangerous areas and improve the pace of his passing. He still gets caught in possession. At least he is passing the ball forward more often and contributing to attacking play which is a plus

What is his pass completion rate?
[/quote]

Agreed.

And it's actually very good (about 82% I believe), but I'm unsure as to what percentage could be called a forward pass which seems to be the argument against any stat involving Lucas; "What good does it actually do for the team?".
[/quote]

I accept it may be a rhetorical question but surely you cannot be serious? Do you not think that keeping possession is important in the midfield? Have you ever played football? Not rhetorical
[/quote]
Not sure who the question is directed at but possession is a key part of football. Check Barca against the Gooners for your average lesson! Our championship winning teams played fantastic possession football too.

No point in winning the ball and tackles then giving it straight back to the opposition is there?
 
There isn't much of a correlation between the amount of possession a team keeps and the amount of games they win. But there is a correlation between the amount of successful.passes in the final third of the field and winning, liking at both the obvious conclusion is that it's what you've got it's how you use it that's important.
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=44935.msg1315371#msg1315371 date=1302764458]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=44935.msg1315355#msg1315355 date=1302753293]
[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=44935.msg1315348#msg1315348 date=1302751565]

Someone mentioned a littler earlier that Lucas is not the sliding, bone crunching tackler that Mascher was and this is exactly right. Mascher would go in for thumping challenges - win more than he lost but give away plenty of free's. Lucas just puts a foot in to touch the ball away. The number of times the player dives without any contact is exceptional and I somtimes wonder if Refs haven't got Lucas on the "cheap foul" list before the game starts.


All that said, Mascher was by some way a better player; his passing was never as good as Lucas but it wasn't as bad as some try to remember it. He got in trouble when he tried to go forward with a defence splitting pass but otherwise kept possession.


Also, just for the comments on who the other top tacklers are; Chelsea don't have one cause Essien and Lampard have been injured so much, Mikel has been in and out of the team and Ramirez can't tackle. The mancs don't have one cause all their players do it - Carric, Fletcher, Rooney; they all go back and tackle. Arsenal aren't in there cause none of them go in for the tackle.

Lucas is in there cause he's the only one (apart from Poulsen..... so, still the only one) who does the tackling. Ming rarely gets involved, Stevie has been injured or guilty of leaving it to Lucas. Spearing hasn't been in the team enough. The number of times that Lucas has been left to face the oncoming hordes on his own is huge this season and the main reason, IMO, that he's in the top tacklers brigade.
[/quote]

Of course. It couldn't actually be that he's any good at it. No way. It's all those other reasons.
[/quote]

ryan, why is it that you think lucas is anything other than average?
he has no exceptional pace, power, passing ability, crossing ability, goal scoring ability, awareness, vison. so why on earth do you take exception to people calling lucas average? he is an average performer in a currently decididly average team.

I do get why you take exception to people calling him shit, he isn't shit.
[/quote]

I'm sure O'hare can answer for himself but people constantly try to explain away everything that Lucas does in midfield with hillarious assertions.

He's too slow on the ball - rubbish. He passes first time more often than anyone else in the team. He could improve the pace of his passing but not the time he dwells on the ball.

He's not a good tackler - probably true three years ago, less so two years ago, rubbish one year ago and now just a lazy, grating and blatantly inaccurate assesment. He's given away too many frees near the edge of the box but even that is dropping lately as well.

He's not dynamic - true. Neither was Didi, Makelele, Alonso et al. Not that this means Lucas is in their bracket but simply that its not enough of a criticism to base a condemnation on.

This apparently average player works as hard as Dirk, wins more tackles than any other player in the team, has an exceptionally high completed pass rate, constantly makes himself available for the ball, keeps it all ticking over in the middle (so long as the players forward actually make themselves available) and has done nothing but improve since he arrived.

I've said before that if he can improve in two areas of his game - reduce the silly fouls around the box and somehow chime in with 4 or 5 goals - then I'm happy for him to be in the team next season. There's been evidence of him addressing the first point and his time in Brazil shows he does know how to shoot he just seems unable, at this point, to do it here.

If we beat Arsenal on the weekend then he'll be an integral part of a midfield that has seen victory over the top 4 teams in the league during the last three months as well as becoming a regular international with one of the best teams in the world. No doubt, however, most will still manage to term him as "very average". Once again the opposition will have been poor, had an off day, struggled to work out what they were doing etc. It's funny how the top players simply take victory for their teams while players like Lucas somehow manage to, "consistently", come up against top teams who are strangely off their game. :🙂
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=44935.msg1315371#msg1315371 date=1302764458]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=44935.msg1315355#msg1315355 date=1302753293]
[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=44935.msg1315348#msg1315348 date=1302751565]

Someone mentioned a littler earlier that Lucas is not the sliding, bone crunching tackler that Mascher was and this is exactly right. Mascher would go in for thumping challenges - win more than he lost but give away plenty of free's. Lucas just puts a foot in to touch the ball away. The number of times the player dives without any contact is exceptional and I somtimes wonder if Refs haven't got Lucas on the "cheap foul" list before the game starts.


All that said, Mascher was by some way a better player; his passing was never as good as Lucas but it wasn't as bad as some try to remember it. He got in trouble when he tried to go forward with a defence splitting pass but otherwise kept possession.


Also, just for the comments on who the other top tacklers are; Chelsea don't have one cause Essien and Lampard have been injured so much, Mikel has been in and out of the team and Ramirez can't tackle. The mancs don't have one cause all their players do it - Carric, Fletcher, Rooney; they all go back and tackle. Arsenal aren't in there cause none of them go in for the tackle.

Lucas is in there cause he's the only one (apart from Poulsen..... so, still the only one) who does the tackling. Ming rarely gets involved, Stevie has been injured or guilty of leaving it to Lucas. Spearing hasn't been in the team enough. The number of times that Lucas has been left to face the oncoming hordes on his own is huge this season and the main reason, IMO, that he's in the top tacklers brigade.
[/quote]

Of course. It couldn't actually be that he's any good at it. No way. It's all those other reasons.
[/quote]

ryan, why is it that you think lucas is anything other than average?
he has no exceptional pace, power, passing ability, crossing ability, goal scoring ability, awareness, vison. so why on earth do you take exception to people calling lucas average? he is an average performer in a currently decididly average team.

I do get why you take exception to people calling him shit, he isn't shit.
[/quote]

Spidey, I've been through this too many times before to start again. In this case I was simply suggesting that because facts and stats show he's a good tackler, that he might actually be one. I'm sure you've noticed but I've been banging the 'Lucas can atckle' drum for quite some time now, and don't need to reinforce that opinion simply because somebody's pulled out some stats to show I was right all along.

Besides, as your opinions have demonstrated over the years (Babel & Mascherano = good, Didi Hamman & Lucas = bad) it's quite obvious you value the simple, identifiable and generic assets in footballers; pace, tackling, aggression.

Whilst I have an appreciation for those, I also feel the more subtle elements; reading the play, setting tempo, finding space, touch, technique, etc of the game are - whilst less appreciated - invaluable.

Your list above of antiquated values a player must possess (why would a holding midfielder need "crossing ability" for fucks sake?) is anathema to me I'm afraid, so this discussion is going to get us nowhere. If you applied that list of 'must-haves' to everyone, then the footballign world would never have seen a Jamie Carragher, a Didier Deschamps, a Alan Hansen, etc etc.

Move on Spidey.
 
lucas is absolutely slow on the ball. I have no idea why ANYONE would try to argue that point, how many times has lucas been caught in possession, how many times has lucas held onto the ball just that second too long so a move breaks down? how many? lucas is quick in possession? WHAT THE HELL?!!

to his (lucas) credit he keeps it simple, but I'm not having it he moves the ball quickly when he recieves it, fuck off that's bullshit.
 
Lucas doesn't fare well in any of the more subtle categories either Ryan. He's average at best in all of them, but is particularly poor at reading the game
 
I agree with nearly all of what Wiz said (great post). Lucas has improved his first time passing but he still could be quicker to release it at times.


One question, can Lucas act as the sole DM for us alongside an attack minded playmaker? I still don't know. I don't want to see us get over ran in midfield and perhaps we do need a dynamic, powerful pacy destroyer that would allow a playmaker link up play and join up with attack.

I like Lucas and expect him to have a fine game again Sunday against Arsenal. He excels in the bigger games.
 
Lucas generally releases the ball early (to fairly average effect), but occasionally ponders on it and misses an opening, or just gets caught in possession. As for being good at all the subtle things (which presumably only a true connoisseur could appreciate), I'm with Rosco. He's pretty average in most aspects. Lucas is a spolier, in every sense of the word. While he can spoil the oppositions play, he is also frequently guilty of spoiling his own team's play, too.

He plays for Brazil because Brazil are desperately short of his type of player, and they have begrudgingly accepted that one is necessary in the modern game. They have been experimenting with the position for a while, and are yet to find an effective solution. Incidentally, Brazil have lost their last two games.

I would agree that he's improved year on year, and his attitude is faultless. But for those comparing him to Mascherano, you might consider Lucas' options were he to move on. Mascherano had Barca willing to pay over £20m for him. The offers being touted in the press prior to Lucas signing a new contract were in the region of £3m, from mid-table teams in Spain or Italy. There is no doubt that if Lucas were to move on, it would be to a lesser club. He knows what he has here, and he knows he's unlikely to improve on it.

Can Lucas look competent alongside a host of world class players? Yeah, I guess. Does he bring anything to the team himself? No, not really. Could he be easily replaced by another average player with little to no discernible change in the quality of the team? Absolutely.
 
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=44935.msg1315555#msg1315555 date=1302788220]
Lucas generally releases the ball early (to fairly average effect), but occasionally ponders on it and misses an opening, or just gets caught in possession. As for being good at all the subtle things (which presumably only a true connoisseur could appreciate), I'm with Rosco. He's pretty average in most aspects. Lucas is a spolier, in every sense of the word. While he can spoil the oppositions play, he is also frequently guilty of spoiling his own team's play, too.

He plays for Brazil because Brazil are desperately short of his type of player, and they have begrudgingly accepted that one is necessary in the modern game. They have been experimenting with the position for a while, and are yet to find an effective solution. Incidentally, Brazil have lost their last two games.

I would agree that he's improved year on year, and his attitude is faultless. But for those comparing him to Mascherano, you might consider Lucas' options were he to move on. Mascherano had Barca willing to pay over £20m for him. The offers being touted in the press prior to Lucas signing a new contract were in the region of £3m, from mid-table teams in Spain or Italy. There is no doubt that if Lucas were to move on, it would be to a lesser club. He knows what he has here, and he knows he's unlikely to improve on it.

Can Lucas look competent alongside a host of world class players? Yeah, I guess. Does he bring anything to the team himself? No, not really. Could he be easily replaced by another average player with little to no discernible change in the quality of the team? Absolutely.
[/quote]

Scotland?
 
How many fouls does Lucas give away?
and how does that compare with other prem players etc.

He may well get in the way loads but he gives away an amazing number of free kicks near the box when we are under pressure its nuts.
 
[move][size=30pt]He's a fucking average squad player FFS, he ain't completely shit, but he certainly is not as good as some are convincing themselves he is, we have all got eyes.[/size][/move]

The RAWK cult is amongst us, we used to think it was funny 🙁

regards
 
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=44935.msg1315607#msg1315607 date=1302793245]
[move][size=30pt]He's a fucking average squad player FFS, he ain't completely shit, but he certainly is not as good as some are convincing themselves he is, we have all got eyes.[/size][/move]

The RAWK cult is amongst us, we used to think it was funny 🙁

regards


[/quote]

*worried laugh*

The most calm and composed poster on the site just posted a giant moving text.
 
OPTA Joe tweeted today that Ramires has done the most tackles which have gained possession now thats the stat that you want, just because you make lots of tackles doesnt make you the best tackler.
 
Bollocks Vlad. There's no RAWK fever here. There are just a handful of posters who are trying to temper the over the top criticisms.
 
Lucas Leiva- The Thinking Man`s Midfielder

One is a yeast extract, used to flavour bread products, and the other is a midfielder who plays for Liverpool and Brazil.

They may sound different, but there is something Lucas Leiva and Marmite both share, you either love them or hate them.

Lucas Leiva suffers from a problem. Due in virtue to his position. He`s part of a new breed, the modern midfielder, in an era where many teams play two behind an attacking midfielder; the need for an out and out defensive player is becoming increasingly absent.

He doesn`t man mark, he doesn`t sit and hold, he doesn`t cover the defensive pair behind him and he doesn`t make game defining last ditch slide tackles. He dictates the play, somewhat unspectacularly, does the little things well, and most importantly; makes the team play better.

They are cropping up all over Europe and there is something innate for players in this new position. Along with the likes of Sergio Buesquets, Riccardo Montolivo, Gareth Barry and Michael Carrick managers adore him, fans appreciate him, but the majority despise him.

These players are neutrals, neither defence nor attack, they lie in between linking the two. Because of this they go unnoticed. Football is a spectator sport, and it`s difficult to do something spectacular when you aren`t involved in what many consider the two most important areas of the game. It also makes it easier to pick up on mistakes, when the good things are difficult to see, the reverse is true, the bad things are more apparent. Every bad challenge, touch or pass is scrutinised by those watching, a blip in form becomes increasingly obvious.

Lucas wasn`t trained to play in this way, it wasn`t in his nature. Brought in as an attacking midfielder from previous club Gremio he has adjusted and matured during his time on Merseyside. This season the Brazilian has been phenomenal, possibly the player of the season in a blow par team.

The stats are there for anyone who disputes this; the Premier League`s leading tackler consistently finishes games with the best pass success on the pitch. He intercepts effectively and plays with brains along with brawn.

Mr Paisley once said 'It`s not about the long ball or the short ball. It`s about the right ball` very fitting when discussing Lucas, you`d imagine Bob would have been a fan.

One student of Bob Paisley certainly is. Kenny Dalglish recently rewarded him with a new contract, a further tribute to the wonderful season he has had. The list of admirers goes on; Rafael Benitez, Roy Hodgson, Dunga, Mano Menezes have all utilised Lucas` abilities and clearly see him as a fantastic asset. It would also be possible to add Walter Mazzarri of Napoli and Juan Carlos Garrido of Villarreal to the list, two managers who were genuinely interested in acquiring the midfielder`s services before Liverpool made sure that was no longer possible.

It`s a problem Lucas will have to contend with as long as his continues to occupy this new position. But slowly and steadily he`s winning people round, the boo`s at Anfield have turned to cheers, coming on for the last ten minutes has turned to playing the full ninety, and the rare International cap has become a formality.

It shouldn`t bother him, but it most likely does. The look of anguish when a piece of skill is miss queued or a shot is miss hit demonstrates he wants to show he can offer more, and there`s been glimpses that show he can.

It will take time for people to realise what Lucas can bring to a squad in a sport where the team itself has never been more important, but if he continues at the current rate it won`t be long at all before the only thing Lucas Leiva and Marmite have in common is a yellow top and a red badge.
 
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=44935.msg1315731#msg1315731 date=1302807920]
In that case, I think they're overcompensating.
[/quote]

By saying he's better than average?

I don't see anyone saying he's excellent or a world-beater.
 
'This season the Brazilian has been phenomenal, possibly the player of the season in a blow par team.'

Oh dear!

Who wrote that Roland?
 
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