Get him to the Greek (Deal Confirmed)

[dmishra]

Well, he’s 2 years older so that’s how it should be. Tsimikas seems closer to Robbo in style, but I still would probably pick Lewis out of the two because knowledge of the league is so good important for a defender and I like how athletic he is. The club are willing to pay a little more for Lewis than the Greek, so their preference is also probably in that order.

Lewis looks stronger and is PL experienced, so you're right that from a defensive perspective, Lewis would probably have been the better option. Making the jump to the PL for Tsimikas will be a big one, especially defensively.

That said, the one advantage Tsimikas seems to have over Lewis is that he seems to have a peach of a left foot. Contrarily, Lewis looked more like a left-footed Clyne or Wan-Bissaka - willing to get forward, but not exactly in the Trent or Robbo league of fullback creativity.

This guy Tsimikas reminds me a bit of Raphael Guerreiro who we were interested in last year. The interesting thing is that Guerreiro has developed into a very versatile player capable of playing LB, LM and CM. I wonder if Klopp will try and mould Tsimikas similarly. Someone with a quality cross /pass in him and a good engine can always be moulded into playing midfield. With Milner now 35, it'd be useful to have a new utility player who can cover 2-3 positions if needed.

 

[Dreambeliever]

so he gives the ball away a lot?

 

[rurikbird]

From the highlights of the Wolves game posted earlier in this thread and a few others Tsimikas seems like a tenacious defender – he doesn't shy away from physical confrontation, doesn't give attackers too much space, doesn't seem overly rash in the tackle either. Another thing that noticeable about him is that he knows how to use his body to either win the ball or a foul and isn't afraid to get hurt when shielding the ball. Overall I don't get the Moreno vibes from him – I'm sure there will be a learning curve, but he's starting from a good base. And having peach of a left foot is useful not only as an attacking tool, but also as a way to get out of the press and minimize loss of possession in our defensive third.

This compilation features offensive and defensive actions relatively equally:

 

[KopRed]

It doesn't seem weird to me. Milner is no longer viable cover for robbo, and even when he was, the drop off was huge. Robbo played injured this season, and it showed. Our fullbacks being fresh is hugely important to our overall play

The same could be said for Williams and TAA on the other side, the drop off is huge. And the reason the drop off is huge is because Robbo and TAA are so good that they will be on the first team everytime they are fit.

At this price and seeing that we are skint, I would have assume the priority is someone who can play left right back or left centre back or all three. But after getting this guy, we still have to look for a CB cover.

I do get it if Robbo is as speculated, injured, though.

 

[peekay]

As was mentioned - we don’t “need” investment.

I don’t think they’ve made “£100 millions” off us - the value of the club may have increased - but they aren’t pocketing huge profits- everything seems to be going back into the club.

They aren’t and never were “sugar daddies” that just chuck money into the club on a whim. Equally they aren’t blood sucking vampires that are draining the club of money.

I don’t really understand this expectation that owners will simply dip into their own money just because some fans get a bit angst-ridden over the lack of big money signings.

I mean - sure, it would be great for us to buy every good player available or have John Henry empty his personal bank account for us to splurge - but it’s not realistic.

I’m pretty confident John Henry didn’t buy LFC so as he could find a home for all that cash he has burning a hole in his back pocket.

I think the reason some posters are irritated with the lack of signings is the timing. Our attractiveness is at its highest. Madrid, Barca are declining. With a couple of signings like Havertz - we could dominate the premier league and champions league in the short to medium term.

 

[rurikbird]

so he gives the ball away a lot?

That's an interesting question (and something you can't really judge from the highlights). If you look at his stats at Whoscored.com, you will see this:

It's obviously a computer-generated assessment based on a few recent stats, so should be taken with a big grain of salt. What does a more detailed look into the stats show?

His passing % in the European competitions up to this year's EL playoffs ranged from 75% to 79%, which is quite a lot lower than Robbo's 85%, but comparable to Trent's 77%. His key passes and crosses per game numbers also are closer to Trent than to Robbo (the latter had 0.5 per game in both in this CL). Something evidently changed in the tactics in the EL play-off this year, because suddenly his passing % shot up to 85, while key passes and long balls attempted were down. It seems the team as a whole became a lot more defensively solid and only conceded 4 times in 4 games as they knocked out Arsenal and eventually succumbed to the Wolves. By the way in their domestic league the back 4 with Tsimikas only conceded 9 goals in the whole of the regular season.

So my impression from the stats is that he is an important creative element of that team almost like Trent for us and is normally allowed to take risks with the ball, but is also capable of pulling back into a more controlled role when needed. Which is pretty much exactly what you would hope to see.

 

[rurikbird]

Greek LFC fan reporting:







OK, that's enough for today from me!

 

[StevieM]

I think the reason some posters are irritated with the lack of signings is the timing. Our attractiveness is at its highest. Madrid, Barca are declining. With a couple of signings like Havertz - we could dominate the premier league and champions league in the short to medium term.

Yeah - it is frustrating. The plan seems to have been to make sure the sort of wages we’re paying can’t be beaten by many other teams - if those wages tables that have us paying similar amounts to City, etc are to be believed.

In an ideal world not spending unnecessarily and building up cash reserves in previous seasons would have meant a splurge on top talent without having to sell a key player to offset.

COVID has put that all out of whack - the impact of the last 6 months hasn’t only begun to be felt.

We still might dominate -well, as much as anyone could with City about - with their unlimited resources and ability to do whatever they want.

 

[King Binny]

https://www.liverpool.com/liverpool...pool-news-kostas-tsimikas-highlights-18742482
[article]Liverpool have made no secret of the fact that this summer is likely to be a quiet one on the transfer front.

But the Reds are set to complete at least one first-team signing with left-back Kostas Tsimikas expected to arrive from Olympiacos.

The Liverpool ECHO report personal terms are yet to be agreed, but a deal worth £11.75 million has been struck with the Greek side.

Not only will Tsimikas' arrival provide Andy Robertson with competition at left-back, it will also allay any fears or what-ifs should the Scot be struck down by a long-term injury.

Understandably, there may be reservations over signing a player whose top-flight experience consists of spells in Greece, Holland, and Denmark.

Regardless, Jurgen Klopp and his team of analysts and scouts clearly deem the 24-year-old good enough to at the very least deputise for Robertson next term.

And that decision may not have been made simply off the back of his form in Greece last season.

In the 2017/18 campaign, Tsimikas played for Dutch side Willem II, on loan from Olympiacos.

At the time, he was 21 years old and featured in the same team as the recently departed Pedro Chirivella and Giliano Wijnaldum, brother of Liverpool midfielder Gini.

Also in that campaign, Klopp's assistant Pep Lijnders took charge of NEC Nijmegen, a Dutch club in the second tier.

It proved something of an ill-fated spell, he was sacked after just five months having failed to win promotion, but it is not inconceivable that he not only spotted Tsimikas' potential but has kept tabs on his career and progress since.

If that is the case, then Lijnders would likely have enjoyed what he saw from Tsimikas in European competition last year. In the 2019/20 Champions League and Europa League, Tsimikas was impressive for Olympiacos.

In the former, he attempted three dribbles per 90, according to WhoScored. That's a figure similar to what he was producing in Holland; Tsimikas attempted 2.8 dribbles per 90 for Willem II.

Encouragingly, his success rate has increased since then despite the step up from Eredivisie to Champions League competition.

If there were any concerns over the fact he has played his domestic football in Greece for the past few seasons, the good news is that he appears to be a level above.

Tsimikas is a very adept crosser and dribbler, a style that mirrors and matches Liverpool’s current full-backs.

He is also dynamic, attack-minded, and was a constant thorn in the side of Tottenham Hotspur's backline during the 2-2 draw between the north Londoners and Olympiacos in September last year.

How much first-team football Tsimikas sees remains to be seen, especially as he has one of Europe’s best full-backs ahead of him in Robertson who operates in a system catered to his standout attributes.

Fortunately for the incoming Greece international, Klopp and his staff have pedigree when it comes to developing players arriving from lesser clubs and all being well.

Tsimikas should be no different.[/article]

 

[tombrown]

I find it weird that for the last 3-4 transfer windows people have been listing a backup LB as a priority signing, and now we sign one people are asking why

Weird

 

[Brizzle]

Lots of people forgetting how to interpret stats too. We've had two seasons of watching weird 13 year old Utd & Chelsea fans sharing the stats about how many times Trent gives the ball away - this is a symptom of putting the ball into the box a lot.

Looks great business to me. It was a priority gap in the squad.

 

[Frogfish]

It's kind of weird our first priority is a pure left back who doesn't play in the centre or anywhere else. We are skint and it wouldn't be much of an addition since Robbo is one of our best players and this new guy would probably play at most 10-15 games, and most as a sub if Robbo stays fit.

I think you've just covered why we need a back up ! And I doubt it was first priority, just the first to come to fruition.

Neco did well covering TAA however Robbo looked knackered in some games and IF he were to get injured we'd be fucked without proper cover.

He'll get enough games to keep him happy between the 6 trophies we're gunning for next season, his pay has just increased, he's playing with some world-class players under Klopp and his chances of winning a major trophy have just gone through the roof. What's not to be happy about ?

 

[Brizzle]

I also like how we waited until the day after they got knocked out of the EL to move on this. Could be a good pointer for Thiago.

 

[Frogfish]

This is the best set of highlights I have found. Appreciate including the names of the teams he's playing against at the bottom of the screen. Honestly he looks boss.

His pace is going to be a valuable asset the high line we play. Good technical skills & dribbling stats fits the team well too.

The only negative I've seen so far was in another video posted that had stats on virtually everything - his Ball Retention was 35% which was didn't seem to jive with everything else so I've like to know how that was calculated and exactly what they mean by that term.

EDIT : DB called it and Brizzle has possibly covered it - a symptom of putting the ball into the box a lot.

 

[Brizzle]

Could be wrong given I haven't seen clips of the times he is tackled or crosses miss the mark but it feels like that would tally.

 

[FoxForceFive]

That youtube clip shows (imo) a better cross than Lewis. Whilst Lewis got forward loads, his crossing was woeful, & as my mum is a Norwich fan I watched a fair bit of them the last couple of seasons.

That pace is really good too, for recovery runs alone, never mind linking or overlapping with Mane ahead of him. And he's quick with the ball at his feet in terms of changing body shape & direction, something our best players often do when we counter quickly.

Only other things that stuck out (bar being strong in the tackle), is he seems to make his attacking runs from a more central position, which is interesting, but may be something that he has to adjust, due to lack of space centrally & the better covering/blocking ability of the CM's in the Premier League.

What you can't see, & isn't apparent, is how any of that will translate to playing the 12 or so teams who will try to park the bus, as all of these traits suit a counter attacking side, something we are very occasionally, but now seem to able to do much less than in the past.

 

[peterhague]

As was mentioned - we don’t “need” investment.

I don’t think they’ve made “£100 millions” off us - the value of the club may have increased - but they aren’t pocketing huge profits- everything seems to be going back into the club.

They aren’t and never were “sugar daddies” that just chuck money into the club on a whim. Equally they aren’t blood sucking vampires that are draining the club of money.

I don’t really understand this expectation that owners will simply dip into their own money just because some fans get a bit angst-ridden over the lack of big money signings.

I mean - sure, it would be great for us to buy every good player available or have John Henry empty his personal bank account for us to splurge - but it’s not realistic.

I’m pretty confident John Henry didn’t buy LFC so as he could find a home for all that cash he has burning a hole in his back pocket.

Subtract what they paid for us from what we're worth now.

The rest of your post is just a succession of straw men.

There's no reason at all FSG shouldn't be expected to invest funds on the odd occasion investment is needed.

That wouldn't make them sugar daddies. Not doing so wouldn't make them blood suckers.

It would just be par for the course for responsible and interested owners.

 

[Squiggles]

Lewis looks stronger and is PL experienced, so you're right that from a defensive perspective, Lewis would probably have been the better option. Making the jump to the PL for Tsimikas will be a big one, especially defensively.

That said, the one advantage Tsimikas seems to have over Lewis is that he seems to have a peach of a left foot. Contrarily, Lewis looked more like a left-footed Clyne or Wan-Bissaka - willing to get forward, but not exactly in the Trent or Robbo league of fullback creativity.

This guy Tsimikas reminds me a bit of Raphael Guerreiro who we were interested in last year. The interesting thing is that Guerreiro has developed into a very versatile player capable of playing LB, LM and CM. I wonder if Klopp will try and mould Tsimikas similarly. Someone with a quality cross /pass in him and a good engine can always be moulded into playing midfield. With Milner now 35, it'd be useful to have a new utility player who can cover 2-3 positions if needed.

Not convinced Tsimkas is weaker than Lewis. He doesn't look as tall but he matches his athleticism and is certainly as strong if not stronger. He's pretty built for a FB.

 

[Brizzle]

Subtract what they paid for us from what we're worth now.

The rest of your post is just a succession of straw men.

There's no reason at all FSG shouldn't be expected to invest funds on the odd occasion investment is needed.

That wouldn't make them sugar daddies. Not doing so wouldn't make them blood suckers.

It would just be par for the course for responsible and interested owners.

They aren't avoiding investments, they just aren't investing in the area you are most interested in - transfer fees for new players (only over the past 12 months).

Things they are investing in:

• Stadium - new main stand and upcoming Annie Road
• Training facility
• Improved contracts for our best players

They are also investing a lot to the club in the background that continues to grow the commercial side. These are all long term investments that are taking the club up a level in a sustainable way. Yes, you could argue that this makes it a better asset to sell but by arguing that you are arguing that they are making the club better!

 

[Squiggles]

They aren't avoiding investments, they just aren't investing in the area you are most interested in - transfer fees for new players (only over the past 12 months).

Things they are investing in:

• Stadium - new main stand and upcoming Annie Road
• Training facility
• Improved contracts for our best players

They are also investing a lot to the club in the background that continues to grow the commercial side. These are all long term investments that are taking the club up a level in a sustainable way. Yes, you could argue that this makes it a better asset to sell but by arguing that you are arguing that they are making the club better!

They've only loaned the money for those haven't they? I thought the club were paying them back zero interest loans.

I think that's Peters point. When the value of your product swells from £350m to a now reported £2B you surely can be expected to actually inject some money into the club once in a while?

 

[peterhague]

They aren't avoiding investments, they just aren't investing in the area you are most interested in - transfer fees for new players (only over the past 12 months).

Things they are investing in:

• Stadium - new main stand and upcoming Annie Road
• Training facility
• Improved contracts for our best players

They are also investing a lot to the club in the background that continues to grow the commercial side. These are all long term investments that are taking the club up a level in a sustainable way. Yes, you could argue that this makes it a better asset to sell but by arguing that you are arguing that they are making the club better!

I think I asked before, but maybe you can enlighten me: how much have they put in to the club for those investments? How much does the club owe them in loans?

 

[peterhague]

They've only loaned the money for those haven't they? I thought the club were paying them back zero interest loans.

I think that's Peters point. When the value of your product swells from £350m to a now reported £2B you surely can be expected to actually inject some money into the club once in a while?

Exactly.

Unbelievable how uncritical so many fans are. Is it because of the need to distance themselves from the idiotic 'FSG out' brigade?

Klopp has worked fucking miracles putting this club back on top. God knows how much he's earned John Henry et al.

I don't think it's unreasonable to ask that in return it might be nice if they give a bit back when the club hits a one off problem like covid.

 

[FoxForceFive]

I haven't time to read this (work) but had it bookmarked, may have loan details in it.

https://financialfootballnews.com/category/liverpool/

 

[MomoWASright]

You may scoff at the words financial fair play but that is meant to stop owners just piling cash in to the club. Our club wants to remain FFP compliant.

How much actual cash is FSG sitting on just to give to the club? Do they have £300 million just to handover? Then pay fines to Uefa and the premier league whilst being banned from competition or having points deductions.

 

[Frogfish]

Not convinced Tsimkas is weaker than Lewis. He doesn't look as tall but he matches his athleticism and is certainly as strong if not stronger. He's pretty built for a FB.

65kgs and 5' 9" ? That's lighter and shorter than Robbo !

 

[Frogfish]

You may scoff at the words financial fair play but that is meant to stop owners just piling cash in to the club. Our club wants to remain FFP compliant.

How much actual cash is FSG sitting on just to give to the club? Do they have £300 million just to handover? Then pay fines to Uefa and the premier league whilst being banned from competition or having points deductions.

Considering our Net Spend over the past few seasons that would be highly unlikely !

 

[MomoWASright]

Net spend? Look at total turnover and expenses. That gives a better idea of what the club has to work with rather than oh we sold him and bought him. It’s a more complex matter than that.

Just looking at our match day revenue, we could lose out on £85 million if we go a year without crowds. That wipes out any sales profits.

 

[peterhague]

Are even UEFA pretending that FFP is a thing anymore?

 

[MomoWASright]

Yes. Wolves got punished last week.

 

[peterhague]

In any case, that would still allow for significant investment by the owners given the losses allowed and that we've been profit making for a while.

They could put 100m in without a problem I'd have thought. Not that I'm saying 100m is what they SHOULD put in. Just an example.