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Henderson, the forgotten man

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Posted this last night:

  • jhendersonLooking to put my injuries from last season behind me and focusing on this big season ahead. I'm feeling good and can't wait to get back playing. #YNWA
 
It is more important that a CM is good making a short easy pass than a long one. A CM is all about controling the game for the team, to decide the tempo of the game. Not about making a good long pass, if he can do that then it is a bonus. It is more important that a CM is a good defensive player than an attacking one. Why? He must help winning the ball back and open up space for other players and to cover space.

If he make wrong runs then he will open up a hole in defense behind him. That is what we have seen from Henderson a lot. He is good going forward but average in our own half. He isn't good enough deciding when to attack and when to stay back. He isn't that great pressing the opposition because he as I said makes to many wrong decisions. You can't just press, press, press. You must know when to do it.
 
I was at that match; he was clearly trying to pass back to Bruce (which was legal in those days)

Whelan was a classic example of a players player, who added incredible value, but one that many fans did not appreciate until he wasn't there; I think that woudl have been amplified in the internet era

That was because after an injury or two, Whelan was moved from his left midfield position to a holding midfield role, and some Fans missed that pace and occasional screamer of a goal of his younger days
 
That was because after an injury or two, Whelan was moved from his left midfield position to a holding midfield role, and some Fans missed that pace and occasional screamer of a goal of his younger days
I believe he also played just about every position on the field (including up front with Rushie on at least one occasion) apart from Goalkeeper during his time with us
 
Ryan I remember you being heavily critical of Henderson in the past.

He really wasn't. He was one of the few posters who championed him before signing and during the hit and miss first season. He criticised him last season and said he needed hooking, but recognised it was because of injury. There's a difference between that - saying what's best for the team/player "at the moment" and actually coming out after one injury ravaged season and suddenly reassessing his career with us and deciding he's always been shit.
 
if Allen was considered to a rolls Royce....does that make hendo a Bentley....

Thankfully, we may finally getting rid of the reliant robin in Lucas.
 
I've always thought that Henderson and the coaches he worked with as a young player chose his position all wrong.

His skill set is more that of an attacking, high energy right full back - and a really good one at that. He's got a great engine on him, good physicality and can whip in great balls from the right flank.

In a midfield 2 he is neither a ball playing dictator or a holding midfielder.

The only other option for him in a 4-2-3-1 is a Dirk Kuyt kind of role, but with Mane, Coutinho, Firmino, Lallana, (Wijnaldum) there's no way he's playing there either.
 
I've always thought that Henderson and the coaches he worked with as a young player chose his position all wrong.

His skill set is more that of an attacking, high energy right full back - and a really good one at that. He's got a great engine on him, good physicality and can whip in great balls from the right flank.

In a midfield 2 he is neither a ball playing dictator or a holding midfielder.

The only other option for him in a 4-2-3-1 is a Dirk Kuyt kind of role, but with Mane, Coutinho, Firmino, Lallana, (Wijnaldum) there's no way he's playing there either.
Henderson's best position is as a box to box midfielder where he has the energy, passing ability, both long and short, tackling ability and tactical knowledge to thrive. He effectively played that role on one side of Rodgers 2013 diamond, and it's no coincidence that he looked like one of the best in the league that year.
 
It is more important that a CM is good making a short easy pass than a long one. A CM is all about controling the game for the team, to decide the tempo of the game. Not about making a good long pass, if he can do that then it is a bonus. It is more important that a CM is a good defensive player than an attacking one. Why? He must help winning the ball back and open up space for other players and to cover space.

If he make wrong runs then he will open up a hole in defense behind him. That is what we have seen from Henderson a lot. He is good going forward but average in our own half. He isn't good enough deciding when to attack and when to stay back. He isn't that great pressing the opposition because he as I said makes to many wrong decisions. You can't just press, press, press. You must know when to do it.

But you're constantly comparing every midfielder to that style of footballer. He's neither an anchor or defensive midfielder. Can is equally culpable of leaving holes in midfield, picking the wrong moments to break forward, etc. Both are quite similar in the sense of being more like box-to-box midfielders, pressing, bursting from deep with the ball and playing incisive balls from deep. Both are also relatively young and still learning, still ahead of their natural peak as footballers.

The problem in midfield is more an issue of balance than anything else. It's two fold, we've had a defense that needed over-protection because of how expansive it played and because one or two defenders weren't good enough, this pulled the midfield all over the place. Then we've had midfielders clumped together without a cohesive balance. Lucas was hit and miss and didn't offer enough for an energetic, quick breaking midfield. Allen was a sort of jack of all trades, master of none, decent at everything he does and technically very adept, without the physicality to put his stamp on a game and not really excelling in any aspect.

Grujic is an unknown quantity who looked the part against a vastly inferior side last week. Promising, but very early to make any calls either way - Lucas looked equally head and shoulders above everyone in that game too, but it's against much superior opposition where he will really be judged. We arguably need an aggressive midfielder which would give us some balance to go alongside two of the three from Can, Henderson and Grujic, so your assertion that he will "barely play" or whatever it was you said along those lines, is absurd and ridiculously premature.
 
Any player that isn't in the strongest starting XI will get problem to get games in the PL. It won't be much rotation IMO. Klopp will pick his eleven and they will play week in week out in the PL if fit again IMO.

This season will all be about to get a good spine and a good starting XI. Letting them gel as a team. After they have done that then you can rotate more.

Can is probably the only CM that you can say for sure will start almost every game.
 
It's Suarez, what do you expect?

I was actually just doing a search to figure out if you were pro or anti-youtube compilation videos, and stumbled onto this!

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Maybe this'll be me on Hendo 5 years from now, but not super optimistic on that.
 
..........We arguably need an aggressive midfielder which would give us some balance to go alongside two of the three from Can, Henderson and Grujic, so your assertion that he will "barely play" or whatever it was you said along those lines, is absurd and ridiculously premature.
That could be where the Gary Medel link comes in. And IF we end up with both Wijnaldum and Medel then we could be seeing Can + Medel + one from Milner / Wijnaldum / Grujic and Henderson for most competitive games (or probably two of them in games we are expected to dominate, with Medel benched). Lots of if, buts and maybes in that sentence but the competition for Henderson is going to be far tougher this season.
 
I was actually just doing a search to figure out if you were pro or anti-youtube compilation videos, and stumbled onto this!

Maybe this'll be me on Hendo 5 years from now, but not super optimistic on that.

I bet you'll be on the right side of history. Or the dark side, whatever floats your boat.
You're welcome to join.

The chance of Henderson returning to his former glory is between slim and none.
 
Hey dont get me wrong I loved him - though Ive met him a few times in recent years and he's a grumpy sod 🙂

But there were a few folks around me in the Kemlyn, back then, who used to complain he didn't add much, similar to the stick Henderson gets, and if the internet was around I am sure that would have been amplified. I am not comparing him to Henderson, merely observing the Internet amplifies the malcontents

Fair enough, and yes he is grumpy!

My Old man played with his old man in the 60's. They were friends. His old man was a delight in comparison.
 
I don't really get the logic of the highlighted passage, mate. I think we DO have some serious attacking talent in this team: players like Coutinho who can make a goal out of nothing, Firmino with his great all-around quality, Sturridge, now Mane and possibly Wijnaldum (and who knows, maybe Coric too). None of them have a work-rate anywhere near Henderson's or cover nearly as much ground – only Lallana comes close and he is the least prolific attacker of that group. In midfield, I feel that Can is at his best when allowed to pick his spots to make decisive interventions, as he does – he is not somebody who can (or should be asked to) run non-stop for 90 minutes. Part of it is just physique – there is a reason guys who run marathons look leaner than those who push weights. Can's body is closer to that of a weightlifter, that's why he can push people out of the way, but don't expect him to cover every blade of grass while carrying that frame.

So actually we have a deficit of players like Henderson – Milner and Allen can do it to an extent, but Hendo has more tools in his arsenal (speed and long-range passing to name two). Given how crucial this kind of player is to Klopp's system, this is probably why he sought to bring in Dahoud as a priority, not to replace Henderson outright (from what I've seen of both players Dahoud possibly has a higher ceiling, but he is NOT better than Hendo at the moment), but to compete with and supplement him. Hendo really shouldn't be lumped in with Lucas and Allen – he has more to his game and unlike them, he has one genuinely world-class quality – the ability to run with maximum intensity for all 90 minutes.

Like Ryan, I have absolutely no doubt that Klopp would LOVE a player like Henderson when he's in good form (like he was in 2013-14 and 2014-15 – that's more than "one good season"). It's just bad luck that he was struggling with chronic injury just as Klopp came in, but even then I loved his attitude – you could tell he knew he wasn't anywhere near his best and sometimes he seemed visibly in pain, but instead of feeling sorry for himself he just tried his best to help the team. He is a great kind of character to have in the team and I think fans owe a bit more loyalty to a player who gives nothing but 100% (even when he is feeling 50%) every week. We demand loyalty from them, so let's not discard a player at the first sign of trouble.

Good points mate, maybe I am wrong here. You're swaying me. The only thing for me is I don't really rate Phil C, Roberto F, and Daniel S isn't around much. Don't get me wrong, they are talented but the tend to vanish too much when needed. Both finals showed this. I guess it's more of a two factors combined. I should likely cut him slack, but I just look at Can who is a destroyer too - but can also pass so well, and finish so well. Hendo feels a little limited to me (I know we need his athleticism).
 
We need a playmaker to play together with Can in midfield. Henderson isn't that. That is why our attacking players vanish in many games. We need a Xabi. I won't be surprised if Wijnaldum will be our midfield playmaker if we sign him.
 
He really wasn't. He was one of the few posters who championed him before signing and during the hit and miss first season. He criticised him last season and said he needed hooking, but recognised it was because of injury. There's a difference between that - saying what's best for the team/player "at the moment" and actually coming out after one injury ravaged season and suddenly reassessing his career with us and deciding he's always been shit.

Fair enough. My bad.
 
Fair enough. My bad.
Henderson reminds me of a house we were restoring. It had potential and the renovation went well in the beginning.
But a few months into it we started noticing that the house needed more work than we expected.
There was mold, rotten wood, pipes that needed to be replaced etc. Anyway we kept working at it for a few more months until it was livable.
A year passes and we notice that there's water damage, so the entire floor needed to be replaced.
That's when we actually started contemplating selling the house.
We fixed the leak and the floor, sold it and made a small profit.

Moral of the story is, don't buy a fixer upper. I forget how it pertains to Hendo.
 
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