Heskey 2.0

[rurikbird]

Is our Darwin actually a new Emile Heskey? Could he evolve into more of an assist man/battering ram than a scorer? His chance creation numbers are phenomenal for a striker and that was evident even when he was playing for Benfica. His presence in the attacking line increases our threat by an order of magnitude - should everyone just shift their expectations to him as a chance creation machine rather than a goal machine?

 

[doctor_mac]

Is our Darwin actually a new Emile Heskey? Could he evolve into more of an assist man/battering ram than a scorer? His chance creation numbers are phenomenal for a striker and that was evident even when he was playing for Benfica. His presence in the attacking line increases our threat by an order of magnitude - should everyone just shift their expectations to him as a chance creation machine rather than a goal machine?

At the minute I think we can expect this. We all accepted Bobby was not a prolific number 9, but one that was the architect for others. Darwin is less an architect than a demolition man, but he still helps make us more dangerous. I really believe the goals will come. I think he has been quite unlucky recently with his chances too. I think he did everything right with the chance Bradley set up for him last night for instance. Like with some others recently, if he had scuffed that rather than taking it cleanly, it sneaks past the keeper.

 

[Dreambeliever]

Heskey was miles off what Darwin is.

 

[StevieM]

He’ll likely have one season where he scores at will, and then the rest where he’s ok.

It’ll be fine as long as Salah’s scoring, but it puts pressure on the other forward to score - so someone needs to go all Mane for us.

It does have to be said though - the Flabby Melt had a better scoring record in the league than The Donkey has, so far!!!

 

[Brizzle]

We get a lot more opportunities when Darwin is on the pitch. I think we are seeing that maybe we are better with him in a wide starting role, allowing one of Jota or Gakpo to occupy the space 'between the sticks'.

It is frustrating, but most of the time we are scoring when he's on, it just currently isn't him putting the ball in the net. When that next goal at Anfield goes in, the crowd will go nuts (did you hear them chanting his name, not any one elses after both goals last night?!). I think this confidence will then send him on a run.

A Darwin purple patch and goalscoring run = number 20.

 

[737Max]

Latest Darwin article from the Athletic here:

 

[keniget]

When it comes back to divisive players we can spend an age trying to make it work and finding all the positives to outweigh the negatives... or.... we could just go get someone that does all the things we want them to. Now that's easier said than done but still... that's how you improve, no?

I always go back to that feeling when Torres blew past Ben Haim against Chelsea and Henry'ed it into the corner.... after years of squinting trying to find the positives in Cisse, Baros, Crouch and all the rest of them... aaah.. wash away all the pain.

The best scenario is that it all clicks of Nunez and we (I) can forget all about this. If it doesn't however, the second best option is to go back to the market and if we want to keep Nunez as a squad option / agent of chaos / crowd favourite... fine.

 

[Woland]

Heskey was miles off what Darwin is.

Nope

 

[rurikbird]

Heskey was miles off what Darwin is.

Nope

I didn't see much of Heskey in his prime, but from what I remember he was unplayable at times – missing chances too often, but the likes of Owen profited immensely from playing alongside him. Which makes me think if Gakpo or someone else learns how to consistently take advantage of the chaos Darwin creates, they could make a nice career out of it.

 

[bluebell]

He hasn't adjusted to UK life yet, he is still learning the language. When he goes home, is there someone therefore him? Language and being around family and friends really helps players. Explayers would talk about the boredom and depression when they'd go home, they can't go out.
My target when I was talking to @StevieM was 30GAs for the season, and he is oncourse to hit that target.
Yes, he is frustrating, passing when he should shoot, and shooting when he should pass, but he creates so much chaos.
He is so much better than Heskey. Heskey was a good SS, and that's it. Sticking him @LW and Diaz at RW and Jota/Gakpo through the middle works for me

 

[Fabio]

I'd like Darwin to be a consistent goal scorer, but if he turns in to a consistent creator then I'm ok with that too

 

[Brizzle]

When it comes back to divisive players we can spend an age trying to make it work and finding all the positives to outweigh the negatives... or.... we could just go get someone that does all the things we want them to. Now that's easier said than done but still... that's how you improve, no?

I always go back to that feeling when Torres blew past Ben Haim against Chelsea and Henry'ed it into the corner.... after years of squinting trying to find the positives in Cisse, Baros, Crouch and all the rest of them... aaah.. wash away all the pain.

The best scenario is that it all clicks of Nunez and we (I) can forget all about this. If it doesn't however, the second best option is to go back to the market and if we want to keep Nunez as a squad option / agent of chaos / crowd favourite... fine.

I think final para is spot on, and given we need 4-5 attackers across the front three we can afford to look for that polished player, alongside our agent of chaos.

 

[Frogfish]

At the minute I think we can expect this. We all accepted Bobby was not a prolific number 9, but one that was the architect for others. Darwin is less an architect than a demolition man, but he still helps make us more dangerous. I really believe the goals will come. I think he has been quite unlucky recently with his chances too. I think he did everything right with the chance Bradley set up for him last night for instance. Like with some others recently, if he had scuffed that rather than taking it cleanly, it sneaks past the keeper.

Yes he had 3 clean hits (inc. header) yesterday and was really unlucky he didn't score at least one. Hopefully the luck will even itself out and he'll get some stuffy/scruffy goals as well as some clean hits that break the net.

 

[Markeh]

Haha this is exactly who i think of with Darwin but i was scared to say. Random unplayable games, regular dung games where we think we need better and lots of discussion about what he does for the team to enable others to score goals.

 

[Frogfish]

He’ll likely have one season where he scores at will, and then the rest where he’s ok.

It’ll be fine as long as Salah’s scoring, but it puts pressure on the other forward to score - so someone needs to go all Mane for us.

It does have to be said though - the Flabby Melt had a better scoring record in the league than The Donkey has, so far!!!

To a degree I agree, look at the comments re. Arsenal. However then we look at Arsenal and think, how can their top scorer have just 6 goals and yet they are 3 5 points off the top? Because they spread them around (6,5,4,4 etc this season), which is what we do when Mo. isn't there (like the last time he went away to AFCON and I believe we won all of our games - or that we've only lost is it 2-3 games out of 27 when he's been missing)?

 

[StevieM]

To a degree I agree, look at the comments re. Arsenal. However then we look at Arsenal and think, how can their top scorer have just 6 goals and yet they are 3 5 points off the top? Because they spread them around (6,5,4,4 etc this season), which is what we do when Mo. isn't there (like the last time he went away to AFCON and I believe we won all of our games - or that we've only lost is it 2-3 games out of 27 when he's been missing)?

Yeah - but Arsenal are shit and don’t win things.

We don’t want to be like Arsenal.

 

[Woland]

Heskey was a beast who gradually became less selfish when it became obvious that Owen was more clinical than him, so the comparison is valid. Still expect and need more goals from Nunez though.

 

[moron]

Is our Darwin actually a new Emile Heskey? Could he evolve into more of an assist man/battering ram than a scorer? His chance creation numbers are phenomenal for a striker and that was evident even when he was playing for Benfica. His presence in the attacking line increases our threat by an order of magnitude - should everyone just shift their expectations to him as a chance creation machine rather than a goal machine?

Your completely wrong on this. Heskey actually carried us in his first season coz Owen was injured, and in later years his duty was to service Owen to realize the GH dream of a Owen/Heskey partnership which GH had admittedly witnessed in some youth England setup.

Heskey was never as effective at the rate that Darwin is when Heskey was given the task to provide sevice to Owen. With Darwin you dont know what you will get, and the amount of shit he gets from fans is unwarranted, I know everyone is up Bobbys arse but lets not forget he was fucking flop until Salah and Mane introduced themselves and Bobby was shit as the main striker. If you dig the stats up you will find that Darwin in terms of chances involved in and goals scored is better in his own way than Bobby in his first 18 months. Thats the truth.

 

[Woland]

I think digging the stats up is hard, as 20 years ago an assist meant you'd put it on a plate for someone, where now it's just the dude who last touched the thing.

I mean I'm probs wrong on this but if defo feels like there's loads more assists now than there was.

 

[moron]

I think digging the stats up is hard, as 20 years ago an assist meant you'd put it on a plate for someone, where now it's just the dude who last touched the thing.

I mean I'm probs wrong on this but if defo feels like there's loads more assists now than there was.

This is true, and I dont take much note of it myself. However, Darwins involvement and contributions is quite evident unless people are blind. Opposition defenders cannot ignore hia pesence, and find it difficult to handle him. He has 8 goals in total this season, same rate as Bobby, and in his first season got as many as Mane, and Suarez. He was never a number 9 for his previous team, so the fact that Klopp is playing him there us down to him. In South America I dont think there is a more dangerous front man than him at the moment.

 

[Brizzle]

I agree that it is starting to look better with him playing as a wide player and someone else down the middle. It is nice that he can be an option down the middle but I think this is a better and safer way to play him.

 

[peterhague]

For all the justified debate about Nunez, you could make a case that he's the least of our problems in attack. You pretty much know that one way or another he's going to make an effective contribution, as inelegant and clownish as it might be.

Whereas Gakpo is a complete puzzle to me and Diaz seems to be a shadow of the player we bought. Jota's great but injury prone, and as good as Salah is he's gonna be 32 next season.

 

[Beamrider]

If Nunez were not a striker, we'd all be quite happy with his productivity from the left - good movement, works his bollocks off and chips in with a decent number of assists and the odd goal. Plus cult hero status for large sections of the crowd.
He's delivering what we expected from Salah when we bought him, whereas Salah has delivered what we expected from Nunez when we bought him.
I wouldn't write him off as a striker just yet, but I'm more than happy for him to do his thing from the left.

 

[keniget]

If Nunez were not a striker, we'd all be quite happy with his productivity from the left - good movement, works his bollocks off and chips in with a decent number of assists and the odd goal. Plus cult hero status for large sections of the crowd.

We paid 60-70M. For us, that's a headline signing and we kinda expect / need him to be great. That's an "us" problem rather than a Nunez problem but still, it is what it is.

Nunez has his upsides but his touch / passing / crossing is a little too erratic for my liking to play out wide consistently. I suppose these days you could level the same accusations at Salah but we know why he's in the team.

Again, most of what I'm reading in this thread ("he's a handful" and "he occupies defenders") is classic excuse making for a player that simply hasn't lived up to expectations.

 

[Woland]

Agree that's he's not as good as expected for a striker but if we had paid what we had knowing he was gonna be a winger then he's much better than other players who cost more there. Antony and Mudryk being the first two that come to mind.

 

[peterhague]

We paid 60-70M. For us, that's a headline signing and we kinda expect / need him to be great. That's an "us" problem rather than a Nunez problem but still, it is what it is.

Nunez has his upsides but his touch / passing / crossing is a little too erratic for my liking to play out wide consistently. I suppose these days you could level the same accusations at Salah but we know why he's in the team.

Again, most of what I'm reading in this thread ("he's a handful" and "he occupies defenders") is classic excuse making for a player that simply hasn't lived up to expectations.

For me bringing the price into it really just reduces the conversation to whether or not he's been disappointing, which seems a bit pointless because he clearly has.

It's not like we can sell him for £70m and have another go at it.

I don't think it's true that the praise he gets is just excuse making - it's not like you could say the same about Gakpo and Diaz at the moment. They're not trivial attributes.

 

[Dreambeliever]

Heskey was a beast who gradually became less selfish when it became obvious that Owen was more clinical than him, so the comparison is valid. Still expect and need more goals from Nunez though.

Heskey scored fuck all. His best season was like 20 and his average like 9. Woeful, he’s also weak as piss more often than not. Passable in the treble season, rubbish otherwise.

 

[bluebell]

For me bringing the price into it really just reduces the conversation to whether or not he's been disappointing, which seems a bit pointless because he clearly has.

It's not like we can sell him for £70m and have another go at it.

I don't think it's true that the praise he gets is just excuse making - it's not like you could say the same about Gakpo and Diaz at the moment. They're not trivial attributes.

If a club enquired about Nunez, we are talking north of £100m+ easy.
Lets just remember what Napoli are asking for Victor Osimhen, and he has 8 goals 3 assists in 18 games across all comps

 

[Fabio]

I think the key is just shifting your expectations.

As a striker, a bitter disappointment so far
As a forward, he's been largely good but frustrated with his finishing.

 

[Fabio]

Hes first name on the teamsheet while salahs away. Play him on the left with Jota central. Let the 2 of them swap and move around and develop a nice understanding like nunez and mo had built

Diaz doesn't build rapports. He just takes people on, shoots, or hopes there's someone around to pass to