Heskey 2.0

[Brizzle]

We paid 60-70M. For us, that's a headline signing and we kinda expect / need him to be great. That's an "us" problem rather than a Nunez problem but still, it is what it is.

Nunez has his upsides but his touch / passing / crossing is a little too erratic for my liking to play out wide consistently. I suppose these days you could level the same accusations at Salah but we know why he's in the team.

Again, most of what I'm reading in this thread ("he's a handful" and "he occupies defenders") is classic excuse making for a player that simply hasn't lived up to expectations.

I think this is all fair, I'd elaborate on the final point though. In his worst form, he is still making life a nightmare for the opposition and that creates chances for him and for others (either directly or by pulling people around in their systems). In his best form he is a lethal & potent striker.

I'm quite happy if we have an attacker who on their worst day is still making chances for themselves, for others and leaving the opposition in tatters. There are many many top strikers who on their worst days are complete passengers and anonymous. That is at least one thing we haven't had to contend with.

 

[Hansern]

I know people dont rate Darwin (and thats fine) but a comparison to Heskey can only be limited to being a nightmare to play against. Nothing else is similar or comparable. Heskey scored 164 goals and 60 assists in 786 games. Darwin has 91 goals and 34 assists in 210 games. As a creator and goalscorer they're not the same at all. They're not even in the same league ability wise.

I think the jury is still out in regards to what type of goalscorer and creator Darwin will end up as, but he'll be remembered as something else than Emile Heskey the day he hangs up his boots.

 

[Woland]

Heskey scored fuck all. His best season was like 20 and his average like 9. Woeful, he’s also weak as piss more often than not. Passable in the treble season, rubbish otherwise.

Nunez has very similar stats, I'm glad you can see why the comparison is valid.

 

[localny]

Some great posts. For me, I stopped expecting a prolific striker an am enjoying him for being a crazy winger type who will miss chances, and score a few occasionally. You've got to admire he's keeping at it, and Klopp's support is amazing. I'd like another more certain striker for sure. But I'd also want to keep Darwin.

 

[peterhague]

If a club enquired about Nunez, we are talking north of £100m+ easy.
Lets just remember what Napoli are asking for Victor Osimhen, and he has 8 goals 3 assists in 18 games across all comps

It doesn't work like that. When big clubs buy a player from somewhere like Benfica or Napoli, a big part of the fee is their assessment that he can step up a level and become world class or whatever. When big clubs then sell that player, they're effectively acknowledging that he's failed to make the grade. So whatever portion of the fee that was based on speculation is lost.

I'd estimate we'd get about £40m for Nunez if we sold him now.

 

[Modo]

It doesn't work like that. When big clubs buy a player from somewhere like Benfica or Napoli, a big part of the fee is their assessment that he can step up a level and become world class or whatever. When big clubs then sell that player, they're effectively acknowledging that he's failed to make the grade. So whatever portion of the fee that was based on speculation is lost.

I'd estimate we'd get about £40m for Nunez if we sold him now.

I agree but your valuation is too low. The potential is still there. He's 24 years old.
We paid £40 mill for Ox a few years ago. Sure there's an English premium but it has to be higher than that.

 

[peterhague]

I agree but your valuation is too low. The potential is still there. He's 24 years old.
We paid £40 mill for Ox a few years ago. Sure there's an English premium but it has to be higher than that.

Fair point.

 

[bluebell]

It doesn't work like that. When big clubs buy a player from somewhere like Benfica or Napoli, a big part of the fee is their assessment that he can step up a level and become world class or whatever. When big clubs then sell that player, they're effectively acknowledging that he's failed to make the grade. So whatever portion of the fee that was based on speculation is lost.

I'd estimate we'd get about £40m for Nunez if we sold him now.

That's a perception you have. Joe Linton was bought for £40m as a striker, and now he is a very valuable #8 worth a lot more. Nunez, is 24 years old, he was prolific at Benfica, and though profligate with us, he is also a big reason why we're winning. If he is moved to the wing, and gets 30 GAs this season, you still think he is worth £40m? I'll remind you Nunes went for £60m, Kai Harvetz for £65m and craziest of all Mason Mount who has a year left went for £55m.

 

[peterhague]

That's a perception you have. Joe Linton was bought for £40m as a striker, and now he is a very valuable #8 worth a lot more. Nunez, is 24 years old, he was prolific at Benfica, and though profligate with us, he is also a big reason why we're winning. If he is moved to the wing, and gets 30 GAs this season, you still think he is worth £40m? I'll remind you Nunes went for £60m, Kai Harvetz for £65m and craziest of all Mason Mount who has a year left went for £55m.

No. What I really think is that if we sell him then it's because we don't think he's good enough, and that will reduce his price regardless of his stats.

This is before you get to the less rational parts of the valuation process - people just don't want to be associated with 'failures'. It's a turn off.

I'll grant you that Havertz is a bit of an outlier, because Arteta was just mad enough to go for it. It was a freakish transfer. Even there, though, I think he went for less than Chelsea paid for him, didn't he?

 

[bluebell]

No. What I really think is that if we sell him then it's because we don't think he's good enough, and that will reduce his price regardless of his stats.

This is before you get to the less rational parts of the valuation process - people just don't want to be associated with 'failures'. It's a turn off.

I'll grant you that Havertz is a bit of an outlier, because Arteta was just mad enough to go for it. It was a freakish transfer. Even there, though, I think he went for less than Chelsea paid for him, didn't he?

He was sh1t at Chelsea in those 3 years... His stats were nothing like Nunez's. According to Transfermkt he was bought in 2020 for €80m and 3 years later he went for €75m.
Now lets talk about Mason Mount who had a year left, with 3 goals and 6As that season. He was put on the market and Man U paid £55m. So we would get more than we paid for Nunez if Klopp decided to sell him.
@King Binny you're the man with fingers on the pulse. I value Nunez at about £90-120m and @peterhague values him at £40,000,001 as he admitted £40m was too low. Whats your analysis please?

 

[Hansern]

Is our Darwin actually a new Emile Heskey? Could he evolve into more of an assist man/battering ram than a scorer? His chance creation numbers are phenomenal for a striker and that was evident even when he was playing for Benfica. His presence in the attacking line increases our threat by an order of magnitude - should everyone just shift their expectations to him as a chance creation machine rather than a goal machine?

Heskey had a goal involvement every 176 mins for us, Bobby had a goal involvement every 133 mins and Darwin has a goal involvement every 108 mins.

I'd say Darwin offers something else and will most likely have a upward trajectory as well.

 

[737Max]

is Nunez in financial difficulty or been made bankrupt recently? Then he's deffo not a Heskey 2.0

 

[ibromurph]

If he could finish half the chances he gets, we'd win the league.

 

[localny]

The only points he's really cost us, in my memory is the chance v Luton and maybe v United?
he's won us even more.
That video above? Not sure I agree. BUT you could say the same of the Fulham game last night

 

[KopRed]

Come on now.. there is no way Darwin is worth only 40m. That's just crazy talk. At this price United, Arsenal and Chelsea will snap him up in a heartbeat. Look at the state of their forward lines. That's how difficult it is to get a productive forward.

To put it into context, Ivan Toney is at 100m. Solanke is at 50+m.

 

[My_Blood_Bleeds_Red]

If we add another 2-3 inches to the goalposts, we’d be at least 10 points ahead of everyone else.

 

[Squiggles]

Nunez is not looking like superseding his transfer fee in the way Suarez, Salah, Torres, etc, all did. As a club we generally need our players to do so to remain competitive against Man City, but the odd one playing up to their value isn't the end of the world. Nunez can do this, IMO, just about, and providing he stays here long enough. The numbers he's putting up are in line with some of the top attackers in the league and I maintain there is more to come from him in front of goal.

I think what can get lost in these debates is that our attacking quartet remains the envy of most clubs in Europe. I also think there is some adjustment needed from fans after we have evolved from one of the most fluid and coherent front threes in the modern era. We now have a selection of attackers which all come with their niggles and issues, but as a collective, they are delivering the goods when it matters.

 

[Fabio]

So he's cursed.

 

[iseered]

So he's cursed.

It does seem like he's been unlucky so far. As long as he doesn't let it affect him he should regress to the mean over time.

 

[mark1975]

You're right in a sense Rurik, in terms of his impact on our overall play. Heskey was terrible with confidence though, his first touch in a game would dictate how the rest of his match would go, whereas Nunez doesn't seem to let misses and fuck ups faze him. He'll beat himself up on the pitch, but he'll get straight up and do it all again.

I think he's brilliant to be honest, you just have to take the rough with the smooth with him at the moment, I think the goals will eventually come, but even if he continues to be hit and miss, he has so much of a positive impact on our play, he'll always be a positive factor regardless. He needs more goals, but he's not the only one.

 

[Modo]

You're right in a sense Rurik, in terms of his impact on our overall play. Heskey was terrible with confidence though, his first touch in a game would dictate how the rest of his match would go, whereas Nunez doesn't seem to let misses and fuck ups faze him. He'll beat himself up on the pitch, but he'll get straight up and do it all again.

I think he's brilliant to be honest, you just have to take the rough with the smooth with him at the moment, I think the goals will eventually come, but even if he continues to be hit and miss, he has so much of a positive impact on our play, he'll always be a positive factor regardless. He needs more goals, but he's not the only one.

I remember the first games he played for us, he tried a back heel finish, I think he missed the first attempt. Then he did it again and scored. I'm not sure if it was the same game but it sort of confirms what you're saying.

 

[Fabio]

I remember the first games he played for us, he tried to back heel finish, I think he missed the first attempt. The he did it again and scored. I'm not sure if it was the same game but it sort of confirms what you're saying.

aye that was the fulham game. fucking loved the confidence

 

[keniget]

So he's cursed.

Better to be lucky than good, eh...

 

[rurikbird]

Better to be lucky than good, eh...

Reminds me of a Napoleon Buonaparte quote that #1 requirement for his generals is to be lucky. Unfortunately so far Nunez is the general who gets ambushed because a messenger got intercepted, not the one who stumbles into a battle by mistake and wins it.

 

[Dreambeliever]

Nunez has very similar stats, I'm glad you can see why the comparison is valid.

It’s not valid imo and extremely unfair to Nunez. Stats don’t stack up and playing wise not remotely close either.