Is Germany the new Italy?

[Fallon]

If you make that 6 years rather than 5, then names like De Bruyne, Son and Firmino all make the Bundesliga list. If you change the criteria from enhanced rep to, maintained/contributed significantly then you can add Gundogan and Aubameyang too. There a few names I'd knock off the lists above, especially from the Spain and Italy columns, so depending on the timescale these lists could all be quite comparitive in number.

I'd go back to you can get a good player from anywhere, scouting and luck depending.

 

[Hyena]

OK I accept there could be some truth to this, but I think the answer is more that the Bundesliga's reputation has increased in recent years, and other European powerhouses like Barca/ Real / the Italians have also been eyeing the market, with Bayern. There are fewer bargains to be found there.

 

[moron]

So is Matip any good ?

 

[bluebell]

Surprisingly only one mention of this clown, the fucker cost us a CL

 

[bluebell]

The Italians have been utter garbage with us, so no I wouldn't want any outfield player. If its a non-italian from Seria A, I'd be okay with that

 

[Squiggles]

Didn't Minamino come from Austria?

 

[Frogfish]

Didn't Minamino come from Austria?

You can always tell which guys haven't bothered to read through the thread

 

[rurikbird]

If you make that 6 years rather than 5, then names like De Bruyne, Son and Firmino all make the Bundesliga list. If you change the criteria from enhanced rep to, maintained/contributed significantly then you can add Gundogan and Aubameyang too. There a few names I'd knock off the lists above, especially from the Spain and Italy columns, so depending on the timescale these lists could all be quite comparitive in number.

I'd go back to you can get a good player from anywhere, scouting and luck depending.

*Sigh* My argument is not the Bundesliga is always a bad place to buy players – that's evidently not true and in some periods it was an excellent market to find quality, physically strong and tactically intelligent players. But things do change with time and go through cycles and I'm simply saying that in recent years, roughly last 4 or 5, it's been not a good place to shop (as was Holland, as I've discovered in course of making this thread). There is no equivalent of Salah, Alisson, Jota, Ederson, Bernardo, Bruno etc that came to these shores from Germany in the last 5 years and that's just a fact, while the stereotype about the perils of buying players from Italy (and Portugal to an extent) runs contrary to the recent evidence.

Oh, and the next person that points out that Minamino or Daka came from Austria and not Germany gets shot.

 

[Holle]

Karius.

*faints*

 

[Holle]

*Sigh* My argument is not the Bundesliga is always a bad place to buy players – that's evidently not true and in some periods it was an excellent market to find quality, physically strong and tactically intelligent players. But things do change with time and go through cycles and I'm simply saying that in recent years, roughly last 4 or 5, it's been not a good place to shop (as was Holland, as I've discovered in course of making this thread). There is no equivalent of Salah, Alisson, Jota, Ederson, Bernardo, Bruno etc that came to these shores from Germany in the last 5 years and that's just a fact, while the stereotype about the perils of buying players from Italy (and Portugal to an extent) runs contrary to the recent evidence.

Oh, and the next person that points out that Minamino or Daka came from Austria and not Germany gets shot.

These are different countries, though!!! Very different!!!

FFS.

 

[Fallon]

*Sigh* My argument is not the Bundesliga is always a bad place to buy players – that's evidently not true and in some periods it was an excellent market to find quality, physically strong and tactically intelligent players. But things do change with time and go through cycles and I'm simply saying that in recent years, roughly last 4 or 5, it's been not a good place to shop (as was Holland, as I've discovered in course of making this thread). There is no equivalent of Salah, Alisson, Jota, Ederson, Bernardo, Bruno etc that came to these shores from Germany in the last 5 years and that's just a fact, while the stereotype about the perils of buying players from Italy (and Portugal to an extent) runs contrary to the recent evidence.

Oh, and the next person that points out that Minamino or Daka came from Austria and not Germany gets shot.

And my post before that said that I understood your point but as I said in that one depending on the frame of time, and what you're looking for, there's little in it... Especially when the likes of Torreira, Neto and Tomiy-3 game wonder-asu get in your list to make the numbers up. The leagues haven't suddenly got better or worse, and while I'm not up on the respective academies I doubt there's been significant change there either. I agree you get cyclical booms in talent, but my personal preference of where to scout would usually fall to Germany and Spain regardless of a dry year or so of imports.

 

[Dreambeliever]

Wtf are people saying Minamino he came from Austria?

 

[rurikbird]

These are different countries, though!!! Very different!!!

FFS.

I know mate, but RB Salzburg/Leipzig system is kind of a unique situation – same scouting and philosophy, many players "graduate" from one to the other, even the current head coach did so. Basically one club operating in two different countries, even though their lawyers would vehemently dispute it...

 

[tombrown]

Wtf are people saying Minamino he came from Austria?

As you were

 

[Onion Soup]

Milner has been playing in the Premier League since its inception in 1992, and he doesn't show any signs of burnout

Milner is quite possibly not human... But he's welcome to stay on earth as long as he keeps showing the ability to not age or tire out.

 

[Onion Soup]

Surprisingly only one mention of this clown,

Never recovered either... Couldn't even cope with the Turkish league. Total failure there too.

 

[peekay]

An argument could be made that one should be careful about paying high transfer fees based on impressive statistics racked up by some players in the German Bundesliga. Certain type of attacking players and "dynamic" midfielders are able to inflate their numbers and put up some insane goals and assists stats for their age due to factors present in the Bundesliga which may not translate well to premier league.

Quality of opposition, quality of defense, space and time allowed for attacking players and midfielders, type of defense, physicality, presence of managers like Nagelsman, the RB system, Dortmund system who attack in very clear patterns all of which lead to very high numbers for certain type of players who can exploit that environment.

I know everything goes in cycles but I also think German football has a slight problem in the sense that they had several supposedly world class young talents who were desired by practically every major clubs five years ago and haven't really lived up to their billing for various reasons - Gotze, Brandt, Draxler, Dahoud etc.

I guess the key question for the scouts is the player exploiting the favorable conditions for him and putting up those numbers or can his abilities translate well to other tougher footballing environments. I remember in the Eredivise, we had players like Afonso Alves and Mateza Kezman who put up insane goal scoring numbers and could barely score a goal here. Then we also had Robben and Suarez.

Also, disagree with lumping German and Austrian Bundesliga together. The style of football maybe the same, the philosophy maybe the same but the quality of opposition is different. I am sure Minamino would look very impressive for us if we were playing opposition of the quality he faced in Austrian league every week here.

 

[Onion Soup]

Keita isn't that bad when he has had a long time without being injured...

... Or so I'm told, wouldn't know actually.

 

[King Binny]

On loan from Leipzig, does he count?

 

[rurikbird]

On loan from Leipzig, does he count?

Yes, looking good

 

[Hyena]

Wtf are people saying Minamino he came from Austria?

So did Hitler!