It could be worse...
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[quote author=Asim link=topic=34955.msg913414#msg913414 date=1248779745]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=34955.msg913409#msg913409 date=1248779652]
Wenger must be becoming increasing disillusioned (and bored) too..
[/quote]
He needs to just wait a few more years to allow the young ones to mature, when they do they will be AMAZING.
[/quote]
Except they all keep leaving in drips and drabs, so that brilliant 'coming of age' he's been waiting for for years never happens.
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=34955.msg913409#msg913409 date=1248779652]
Wenger must be becoming increasing disillusioned (and bored) too..
[/quote]
He needs to just wait a few more years to allow the young ones to mature, when they do they will be AMAZING.
[/quote]
Except they all keep leaving in drips and drabs, so that brilliant 'coming of age' he's been waiting for for years never happens.
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=34955.msg913409#msg913409 date=1248779652]
Wenger must be becoming increasing disillusioned (and bored) too..
[/quote]
I don't see why, this is all due to his own stubbornness. He has money to spend and can buy those players to elevate the team from 'top four' to challenges, but stubbornly refuses to. He has imposed this wage ceiling which means players like Henry, Anelka, Adebayor, Flamini etc are enticed away, and this mundane monotous 'me and the kids' line he keeps wheeling out like Jonathan King just means that once the players get old enough they will leave for bigger things.
It's like some fucking child labour sweat shop, where they learn the trade but then realise they are being paid bugger all (in retrospect to other wages they could gain elsewhere...don't get me started on the wages that are paid now!).
As you mention in your other thread Mark, if we lose Alonso then bid for Fabregas.
If I were a gooner, I'd be fucking furious with Wenger. Not once has he tried to keep the players who have left, and he doesn't seem bothered about replacing them...'Don't worry, I've got an AMAZING 18 year old' as Asim says....ad infinium.
Wenger must be becoming increasing disillusioned (and bored) too..
[/quote]
I don't see why, this is all due to his own stubbornness. He has money to spend and can buy those players to elevate the team from 'top four' to challenges, but stubbornly refuses to. He has imposed this wage ceiling which means players like Henry, Anelka, Adebayor, Flamini etc are enticed away, and this mundane monotous 'me and the kids' line he keeps wheeling out like Jonathan King just means that once the players get old enough they will leave for bigger things.
It's like some fucking child labour sweat shop, where they learn the trade but then realise they are being paid bugger all (in retrospect to other wages they could gain elsewhere...don't get me started on the wages that are paid now!).
As you mention in your other thread Mark, if we lose Alonso then bid for Fabregas.
If I were a gooner, I'd be fucking furious with Wenger. Not once has he tried to keep the players who have left, and he doesn't seem bothered about replacing them...'Don't worry, I've got an AMAZING 18 year old' as Asim says....ad infinium.
[quote author=Asim link=topic=34955.msg913414#msg913414 date=1248779745]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=34955.msg913409#msg913409 date=1248779652]
Wenger must be becoming increasing disillusioned (and bored) too..
[/quote]
He needs to just wait a few more years to allow the young ones to mature, when they do they will be AMAZING.
[/quote]
...playing for Real Madrid or Manchester City.
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=34955.msg913409#msg913409 date=1248779652]
Wenger must be becoming increasing disillusioned (and bored) too..
[/quote]
He needs to just wait a few more years to allow the young ones to mature, when they do they will be AMAZING.
[/quote]
...playing for Real Madrid or Manchester City.
I can see why everyone is writing them off all the time, but as I pointed out a couple months ago, two years ago they pretty much had the same season we just had and looked very very good for the first half of it.
They have a lot of good players still in that side and if (yeah, it's a big if) Wenger adds the couple players he's been needing to for the past couple years, they could end up surprising a few people.
They have a lot of good players still in that side and if (yeah, it's a big if) Wenger adds the couple players he's been needing to for the past couple years, they could end up surprising a few people.
They offset a lot of their expenditure against anticipated sale of highbury real estate and the economic downturn hit them hard.
BUT, rather than borrow heavily to increase overall debt, (they have turned down massive 100m+ loans from the russian Usmanov and the American whos name escapes me Kraft?) they have trusted Wenger to essentially get blood from a stone and keep them in the top 4 with whatever they can give him untill such times as the debt on Ashburton is paid up.
Its easy for us to laugh and point, but in reality neither team is winning anything, we're servicing debt on loans theyre servicing debt on real estate. Meaning in 3 or 4 years time both teams will be debt free but they will have a 60k state of the art stadium earning them 100m a year and we'll have a slightly better playing squad.
Meanwhile these kids they keep churning out will help keep them afloat and outweigh the debt.
Someone, somewhere down the line will inherit a decent squad, a youth set up the envy of the world, a stunning stadium and all the money in the world for transfers.
Id rather be them than us. The stadium is everything.
BUT, rather than borrow heavily to increase overall debt, (they have turned down massive 100m+ loans from the russian Usmanov and the American whos name escapes me Kraft?) they have trusted Wenger to essentially get blood from a stone and keep them in the top 4 with whatever they can give him untill such times as the debt on Ashburton is paid up.
Its easy for us to laugh and point, but in reality neither team is winning anything, we're servicing debt on loans theyre servicing debt on real estate. Meaning in 3 or 4 years time both teams will be debt free but they will have a 60k state of the art stadium earning them 100m a year and we'll have a slightly better playing squad.
Meanwhile these kids they keep churning out will help keep them afloat and outweigh the debt.
Someone, somewhere down the line will inherit a decent squad, a youth set up the envy of the world, a stunning stadium and all the money in the world for transfers.
Id rather be them than us. The stadium is everything.
S
Squiggles
Guest
I don't know where the blame lies with Arsenal but their fans should be patient.
Wenger's a fine manager who deserves the respect and the time to bring silverware to their club.
Wenger's a fine manager who deserves the respect and the time to bring silverware to their club.
are arsenal sitting on a big pile of money or not?
[quote author=Asim link=topic=34955.msg913414#msg913414 date=1248779745]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=34955.msg913409#msg913409 date=1248779652]
Wenger must be becoming increasing disillusioned (and bored) too..
[/quote]
He needs to just wait a few more years to allow the young ones to mature, when they do they will be AMAZING.
[/quote]
People have been saying that for the past 5 years.
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=34955.msg913409#msg913409 date=1248779652]
Wenger must be becoming increasing disillusioned (and bored) too..
[/quote]
He needs to just wait a few more years to allow the young ones to mature, when they do they will be AMAZING.
[/quote]
People have been saying that for the past 5 years.
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=34955.msg913447#msg913447 date=1248780674]
are arsenal sitting on a big pile of money or not?
[/quote]No they arent. Usmanovs aide was on the radio on sunday saying the offer of wads of cash is there, but the board reject it out of hand.
They have no money and refuse to increase debt for short term gain.
Im sure they will replace adebayor and Toure but i think once again sales will outweigh purchases.
are arsenal sitting on a big pile of money or not?
[/quote]No they arent. Usmanovs aide was on the radio on sunday saying the offer of wads of cash is there, but the board reject it out of hand.
They have no money and refuse to increase debt for short term gain.
Im sure they will replace adebayor and Toure but i think once again sales will outweigh purchases.
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=34955.msg913443#msg913443 date=1248780562]
They offset a lot of their expenditure against anticipated sale of highbury real estate and the economic downturn hit them hard.
BUT, rather than borrow heavily to increase overall debt, (they have turned down massive 100m+ loans from the russian Usmanov and the American whos name escapes me Kraft?) they have trusted Wenger to essentially get blood from a stone and keep them in the top 4 with whatever they can give him untill such times as the debt on Ashburton is paid up.
Its easy for us to laugh and point, but in reality neither team is winning anything, we're servicing debt on loans theyre servicing debt on real estate. Meaning in 3 or 4 years time both teams will be debt free but they will have a 60k state of the art stadium earning them 100m a year and we'll have a slightly better playing squad.
Meanwhile these kids they keep churning out will help keep them afloat and outweigh the debt.
Someone, somewhere down the line will inherit a decent squad, a youth set up the envy of the world, a stunning stadium and all the money in the world for transfers.
Id rather be them than us. The stadium is everything.
[/quote]
Admittedly the way we are going (money/debt wise) doesn't exactly fill me with glee, but are you saying that as a Football Fan, you would prefer to see us sell our best players, every season, and never get close to the big prizes?
Sounds like you are. I'm sorry, but debt or no debt, I want to see us challenging. I want to see the players out there winning in a Liverpool top and not thinking 'how many more seasons'. Fuck the money, fuck the new stadium...when it all comes down to it I'm a Liverpool fan.
So to get a new stadium, to refinance the debt and to eventually become debt free at 'New Anfield' you would sell Gerrard for £40m, Torres for £60m, Mascherano for £40m etc etc, and then next season sell another group of player? Sorry, but would I bollocks.
They offset a lot of their expenditure against anticipated sale of highbury real estate and the economic downturn hit them hard.
BUT, rather than borrow heavily to increase overall debt, (they have turned down massive 100m+ loans from the russian Usmanov and the American whos name escapes me Kraft?) they have trusted Wenger to essentially get blood from a stone and keep them in the top 4 with whatever they can give him untill such times as the debt on Ashburton is paid up.
Its easy for us to laugh and point, but in reality neither team is winning anything, we're servicing debt on loans theyre servicing debt on real estate. Meaning in 3 or 4 years time both teams will be debt free but they will have a 60k state of the art stadium earning them 100m a year and we'll have a slightly better playing squad.
Meanwhile these kids they keep churning out will help keep them afloat and outweigh the debt.
Someone, somewhere down the line will inherit a decent squad, a youth set up the envy of the world, a stunning stadium and all the money in the world for transfers.
Id rather be them than us. The stadium is everything.
[/quote]
Admittedly the way we are going (money/debt wise) doesn't exactly fill me with glee, but are you saying that as a Football Fan, you would prefer to see us sell our best players, every season, and never get close to the big prizes?
Sounds like you are. I'm sorry, but debt or no debt, I want to see us challenging. I want to see the players out there winning in a Liverpool top and not thinking 'how many more seasons'. Fuck the money, fuck the new stadium...when it all comes down to it I'm a Liverpool fan.
So to get a new stadium, to refinance the debt and to eventually become debt free at 'New Anfield' you would sell Gerrard for £40m, Torres for £60m, Mascherano for £40m etc etc, and then next season sell another group of player? Sorry, but would I bollocks.
[quote author=Stanners link=topic=34955.msg913458#msg913458 date=1248781182]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=34955.msg913443#msg913443 date=1248780562]
They offset a lot of their expenditure against anticipated sale of highbury real estate and the economic downturn hit them hard.
BUT, rather than borrow heavily to increase overall debt, (they have turned down massive 100m+ loans from the russian Usmanov and the American whos name escapes me Kraft?) they have trusted Wenger to essentially get blood from a stone and keep them in the top 4 with whatever they can give him untill such times as the debt on Ashburton is paid up.
Its easy for us to laugh and point, but in reality neither team is winning anything, we're servicing debt on loans theyre servicing debt on real estate. Meaning in 3 or 4 years time both teams will be debt free but they will have a 60k state of the art stadium earning them 100m a year and we'll have a slightly better playing squad.
Meanwhile these kids they keep churning out will help keep them afloat and outweigh the debt.
Someone, somewhere down the line will inherit a decent squad, a youth set up the envy of the world, a stunning stadium and all the money in the world for transfers.
Id rather be them than us. The stadium is everything.
[/quote]
Admittedly the way we are going (money/debt wise) doesn't exactly fill me with glee, but are you saying that as a Football Fan, you would prefer to see us sell our best players, every season, and never get close to the big prizes?
Sounds like you are. I'm sorry, but debt or no debt, I want to see us challenging. I want to see the players out there winning in a Liverpool top and not thinking 'how many more seasons'. Fuck the money, fuck the new stadium...when it all comes down to it I'm a Liverpool fan.
So to get a new stadium, to refinance the debt and to eventually become debt free at 'New Anfield' you would sell Gerrard for £40m, Torres for £60m, Mascherano for £40m etc etc, and then next season sell another group of player? Sorry, but would I bollocks.
[/quote]No thats not what i meant at all.
I mean i would rather be in their position financially than ours.
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=34955.msg913443#msg913443 date=1248780562]
They offset a lot of their expenditure against anticipated sale of highbury real estate and the economic downturn hit them hard.
BUT, rather than borrow heavily to increase overall debt, (they have turned down massive 100m+ loans from the russian Usmanov and the American whos name escapes me Kraft?) they have trusted Wenger to essentially get blood from a stone and keep them in the top 4 with whatever they can give him untill such times as the debt on Ashburton is paid up.
Its easy for us to laugh and point, but in reality neither team is winning anything, we're servicing debt on loans theyre servicing debt on real estate. Meaning in 3 or 4 years time both teams will be debt free but they will have a 60k state of the art stadium earning them 100m a year and we'll have a slightly better playing squad.
Meanwhile these kids they keep churning out will help keep them afloat and outweigh the debt.
Someone, somewhere down the line will inherit a decent squad, a youth set up the envy of the world, a stunning stadium and all the money in the world for transfers.
Id rather be them than us. The stadium is everything.
[/quote]
Admittedly the way we are going (money/debt wise) doesn't exactly fill me with glee, but are you saying that as a Football Fan, you would prefer to see us sell our best players, every season, and never get close to the big prizes?
Sounds like you are. I'm sorry, but debt or no debt, I want to see us challenging. I want to see the players out there winning in a Liverpool top and not thinking 'how many more seasons'. Fuck the money, fuck the new stadium...when it all comes down to it I'm a Liverpool fan.
So to get a new stadium, to refinance the debt and to eventually become debt free at 'New Anfield' you would sell Gerrard for £40m, Torres for £60m, Mascherano for £40m etc etc, and then next season sell another group of player? Sorry, but would I bollocks.
[/quote]No thats not what i meant at all.
I mean i would rather be in their position financially than ours.
It's a dangerous time for the Gooners at present. If they were to slip out of the top 4 this season, who knows how long it will take them to get back into the CL?
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=34955.msg913459#msg913459 date=1248781389]
[quote author=Stanners link=topic=34955.msg913458#msg913458 date=1248781182]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=34955.msg913443#msg913443 date=1248780562]
They offset a lot of their expenditure against anticipated sale of highbury real estate and the economic downturn hit them hard.
BUT, rather than borrow heavily to increase overall debt, (they have turned down massive 100m+ loans from the russian Usmanov and the American whos name escapes me Kraft?) they have trusted Wenger to essentially get blood from a stone and keep them in the top 4 with whatever they can give him untill such times as the debt on Ashburton is paid up.
Its easy for us to laugh and point, but in reality neither team is winning anything, we're servicing debt on loans theyre servicing debt on real estate. Meaning in 3 or 4 years time both teams will be debt free but they will have a 60k state of the art stadium earning them 100m a year and we'll have a slightly better playing squad.
Meanwhile these kids they keep churning out will help keep them afloat and outweigh the debt.
Someone, somewhere down the line will inherit a decent squad, a youth set up the envy of the world, a stunning stadium and all the money in the world for transfers.
Id rather be them than us. The stadium is everything.
[/quote]
Admittedly the way we are going (money/debt wise) doesn't exactly fill me with glee, but are you saying that as a Football Fan, you would prefer to see us sell our best players, every season, and never get close to the big prizes?
Sounds like you are. I'm sorry, but debt or no debt, I want to see us challenging. I want to see the players out there winning in a Liverpool top and not thinking 'how many more seasons'. Fuck the money, fuck the new stadium...when it all comes down to it I'm a Liverpool fan.
So to get a new stadium, to refinance the debt and to eventually become debt free at 'New Anfield' you would sell Gerrard for £40m, Torres for £60m, Mascherano for £40m etc etc, and then next season sell another group of player? Sorry, but would I bollocks.
[/quote]No thats not what i meant at all.
I mean i would rather be in their position financially than ours.
[/quote]
Sorry, did come across as a rant!!
Financially neither of us have money, and we have a better team. The fucking yanks worry me, but I hate to see a football club run as a football club second (if that makes sense!).
[quote author=Stanners link=topic=34955.msg913458#msg913458 date=1248781182]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=34955.msg913443#msg913443 date=1248780562]
They offset a lot of their expenditure against anticipated sale of highbury real estate and the economic downturn hit them hard.
BUT, rather than borrow heavily to increase overall debt, (they have turned down massive 100m+ loans from the russian Usmanov and the American whos name escapes me Kraft?) they have trusted Wenger to essentially get blood from a stone and keep them in the top 4 with whatever they can give him untill such times as the debt on Ashburton is paid up.
Its easy for us to laugh and point, but in reality neither team is winning anything, we're servicing debt on loans theyre servicing debt on real estate. Meaning in 3 or 4 years time both teams will be debt free but they will have a 60k state of the art stadium earning them 100m a year and we'll have a slightly better playing squad.
Meanwhile these kids they keep churning out will help keep them afloat and outweigh the debt.
Someone, somewhere down the line will inherit a decent squad, a youth set up the envy of the world, a stunning stadium and all the money in the world for transfers.
Id rather be them than us. The stadium is everything.
[/quote]
Admittedly the way we are going (money/debt wise) doesn't exactly fill me with glee, but are you saying that as a Football Fan, you would prefer to see us sell our best players, every season, and never get close to the big prizes?
Sounds like you are. I'm sorry, but debt or no debt, I want to see us challenging. I want to see the players out there winning in a Liverpool top and not thinking 'how many more seasons'. Fuck the money, fuck the new stadium...when it all comes down to it I'm a Liverpool fan.
So to get a new stadium, to refinance the debt and to eventually become debt free at 'New Anfield' you would sell Gerrard for £40m, Torres for £60m, Mascherano for £40m etc etc, and then next season sell another group of player? Sorry, but would I bollocks.
[/quote]No thats not what i meant at all.
I mean i would rather be in their position financially than ours.
[/quote]
Sorry, did come across as a rant!!
Financially neither of us have money, and we have a better team. The fucking yanks worry me, but I hate to see a football club run as a football club second (if that makes sense!).
actually I think i'd rather be in our position with a more competitive squad, sooner or later someone will bail us out. they do have a nice stadium but their model is essentially wait for us, Man Utd and Chelsea to crash and burn then they rise pheonix like from the ashes and become top dogs, that may or may not happen in 5 years and I back Rafa with full control to bring through his own kids anyway, we've hired a few ex Barce coaches so obviously we're going down that model where we hope to bring more quality through
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=34955.msg913443#msg913443 date=1248780562]
...Meaning in 3 or 4 years time both teams will be debt free but they will have a 60k state of the art stadium earning them 100m a year and we'll have a slightly better playing squad...
[/quote]
As Rafa4PM said, that rationale may be sound for the short term (3-4 years as you put it) but they are seriously in trouble of missing out on the CL for 2010/11 due to the spending of Citeh (and they are actually selling to potentially their biggest rival).
If this happens then they'll miss out on £25-40m a year which will mean a few more years of 'building', a few more stars being sold and a few more years of 'the kids need time to mature'. Will the fans stick around to fill the Emirates? Personally I'd have rather stayed at Highbury if this were the case.
Give me relative success and a team that won't be changed every year rather than a spanking new stadium anyday.
...Meaning in 3 or 4 years time both teams will be debt free but they will have a 60k state of the art stadium earning them 100m a year and we'll have a slightly better playing squad...
[/quote]
As Rafa4PM said, that rationale may be sound for the short term (3-4 years as you put it) but they are seriously in trouble of missing out on the CL for 2010/11 due to the spending of Citeh (and they are actually selling to potentially their biggest rival).
If this happens then they'll miss out on £25-40m a year which will mean a few more years of 'building', a few more stars being sold and a few more years of 'the kids need time to mature'. Will the fans stick around to fill the Emirates? Personally I'd have rather stayed at Highbury if this were the case.
Give me relative success and a team that won't be changed every year rather than a spanking new stadium anyday.
Selling club, who play fancy dan footie to woo the armchairs.
I suspect there's a few gooner sympathisers on here.
I suspect there's a few gooner sympathisers on here.
[quote author=Billy Bollocks link=topic=34955.msg913660#msg913660 date=1248791001]
Selling club, who play fancy dan footie to woo the armchairs.
I suspect there's a few gooner sympathisers on here.
[/quote]
Careful, your mask is slipping BB.
Selling club, who play fancy dan footie to woo the armchairs.
I suspect there's a few gooner sympathisers on here.
[/quote]
Careful, your mask is slipping BB.
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=34955.msg913663#msg913663 date=1248791127]
[quote author=Billy Bollocks link=topic=34955.msg913660#msg913660 date=1248791001]
Selling club, who play fancy dan footie to woo the armchairs.
I suspect there's a few gooner sympathisers on here.
[/quote]
Careful, your mask is slipping BB.
[/quote]Who had 3.43pm
[quote author=Billy Bollocks link=topic=34955.msg913660#msg913660 date=1248791001]
Selling club, who play fancy dan footie to woo the armchairs.
I suspect there's a few gooner sympathisers on here.
[/quote]
Careful, your mask is slipping BB.
[/quote]Who had 3.43pm
By his standards he really has lasted well. That's nearly a 100 posts.
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=34955.msg913670#msg913670 date=1248791488]
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=34955.msg913663#msg913663 date=1248791127]
[quote author=Billy Bollocks link=topic=34955.msg913660#msg913660 date=1248791001]
Selling club, who play fancy dan footie to woo the armchairs.
I suspect there's a few gooner sympathisers on here.
[/quote]
Careful, your mask is slipping BB.
[/quote]Who had 3.43pm
[/quote]
Me, but not until next Tuesday, he'll stick around for the weekend.
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=34955.msg913663#msg913663 date=1248791127]
[quote author=Billy Bollocks link=topic=34955.msg913660#msg913660 date=1248791001]
Selling club, who play fancy dan footie to woo the armchairs.
I suspect there's a few gooner sympathisers on here.
[/quote]
Careful, your mask is slipping BB.
[/quote]Who had 3.43pm
[/quote]
Me, but not until next Tuesday, he'll stick around for the weekend.
[quote author=Stanners link=topic=34955.msg913678#msg913678 date=1248791725]
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=34955.msg913673#msg913673 date=1248791564]
By his standards he really has lasted well. That's nearly a 100 posts.
[/quote]
Have I missed something?
[/quote]
You're rowing with the famous Momo/Blackie Gray- a willow th' wisp of bile that flits in and out of the Six Crazy Minutes collective now and again.
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=34955.msg913673#msg913673 date=1248791564]
By his standards he really has lasted well. That's nearly a 100 posts.
[/quote]
Have I missed something?
[/quote]
You're rowing with the famous Momo/Blackie Gray- a willow th' wisp of bile that flits in and out of the Six Crazy Minutes collective now and again.
- Status
