John O' Shea

[Friend no. 2]

[quote author=Richey link=topic=45815.msg1353687#msg1353687 date=1308820069]
If he was free and on a very low wage i would but he's not so i agree.
[/quote]

This. Players with O' Shea's versatility are not all that common. He's no world beater but he can do a decent job in several positions. He would have been easily better than Insua and Konchesky over the last two years at LB and better than Zorba at CB, but he's now 30ish and he wouldn't be cheap, so it'd wouldn't be a signing that makes much sense. Ferguson wouldn't fucking sell to us anyway.

 

[the_khl]

Rafa bought a lot of dross and a few gems too, was a stubborn git etc. etc. But he still he gave us one of the greatest nights ever footballing-wise. And the way he parted with the city of Liverpool was memorable. Giving loads of sterlings to charity showing even more loads of respect torwards you guys (from Liverpool) and us fans in general.

This forum was build on Rafa's heritage even.

Where's the respect? It's not like it's O'Shea we're talking about here.

 

[Sunny]

O'Shea is shite. If he wasn't whiskey nose would be keeping him

 

[the count]

20 league appearances last season, 15 the season before.

I do not want him at Liverpool.

He not good enough to even be a decent squaddie these days.

However if he had played for us instead of Man U for all those seasons he would have had as many if not more appearances for us than he had with them.

He might not have been a world beater but neither was he shit.

 

[vantage]

[quote author=KHL link=topic=45815.msg1353819#msg1353819 date=1308824885]
Rafa bought a lot of dross and a few gems too, was a stubborn git etc. etc. But he still he gave us one of the greatest nights ever footballing-wise. And the way he parted with the city of Liverpool was memorable. Giving loads of sterlings to charity showing even more loads of respect torwards you guys (from Liverpool) and us fans in general.

This forum was build on Rafa's heritage even.

Where's the respect?
[/quote]
Excellent points KHL - and I agree with all of it.

 

[Judge Jules]

[quote author=GOD_23 link=topic=45815.msg1353811#msg1353811 date=1308824557]
[quote author=Richey link=topic=45815.msg1353687#msg1353687 date=1308820069]
If he was free and on a very low wage i would but he's not so i agree.
[/quote]

This. Players with O' Shea's versatility are not all that common. He's no world beater but he can do a decent job in several positions. He would have been easily better than Insua and Konchesky over the last two years at LB and better than Zorba at CB, but he's now 30ish and he wouldn't be cheap, so it'd wouldn't be a signing that makes much sense. Ferguson wouldn't fucking sell to us anyway.
[/quote]

Don't think he'd have been a better CB than Kyrgiakos at his best, but agree otherwise.

 

[Avmenon]

[quote author=vantage link=topic=45815.msg1353937#msg1353937 date=1308831949]
[quote author=KHL link=topic=45815.msg1353819#msg1353819 date=1308824885]
Rafa bought a lot of dross and a few gems too, was a stubborn git etc. etc. But he still he gave us one of the greatest nights ever footballing-wise. And the way he parted with the city of Liverpool was memorable. Giving loads of sterlings to charity showing even more loads of respect torwards you guys (from Liverpool) and us fans in general.

This forum was build on Rafa's heritage even.

Where's the respect?
[/quote]
Excellent points KHL - and I agree with all of it.
[/quote]


This forum shows a lot more balance than most others when it comes to Rafa.

Try RAWK for a very stark comparison.

 

[mark1975]

[quote author=KHL link=topic=45815.msg1353819#msg1353819 date=1308824885]
Rafa bought a lot of dross and a few gems too, was a stubborn git etc. etc. But he still he gave us one of the greatest nights ever footballing-wise. And the way he parted with the city of Liverpool was memorable. Giving loads of sterlings to charity showing even more loads of respect torwards you guys (from Liverpool) and us fans in general.

This forum was build on Rafa's heritage even.

Where's the respect? It's not like it's O'Shea we're talking about here.
[/quote]

Where was the lack of respect? I think we were just talking about his flaws, which he evidently had. No one was giving him shit or taking away his good nature or his good qualities as a manager, we were just addressing this 'myth' that he worked on a tight budget and had played no part in our eventual lack of clout in the transfer market.

 

[Judge Jules]

The truth lies somewhere in the middle of this IMO, as it so often does. It may not be accurate simply to say that Rafa worked on a tight budget - there were plenty who spent less - but what *is* true IMO is that the budget was never up to the job he was given, namely that of addressing years of mismanagement and drift (while the tail end of it was still going on) and getting us back up to the very top level. Rafa made his own mistakes, which compounded the difficulties he was faced with, but that shouldn't obscure the fact that those difficulties were there.

 

[vantage]

[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=45815.msg1354060#msg1354060 date=1308841258]
The truth lies somewhere in the middle of this IMO, as it so often does. It may not be accurate simply to say that Rafa worked on a tight budget - there were plenty who spent less - but what *is* true IMO is that the budget was never up to the job he was given, namely that of addressing years of mismanagement and drift (while the tail end of it was still going on) and getting us back up to the very top level. Rafa made his own mistakes, which compounded the difficulties he was faced with, but that shouldn't obscure the fact that those difficulties were there.
[/quote]
Another post I agree with. I am not blinkered with Rafa love- I just think he gets a bad press in here. RAWK is obviously the polar opposite, which is equally annoying.

In particular I agree with JJ's point about dragging the club forward. We were CL regulars and one of the most feared teams in Europe under Rafa, up until that last fateful year.

 

[Oncy]

[quote author=vantage link=topic=45815.msg1354186#msg1354186 date=1308860803]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=45815.msg1354060#msg1354060 date=1308841258]
The truth lies somewhere in the middle of this IMO, as it so often does. It may not be accurate simply to say that Rafa worked on a tight budget - there were plenty who spent less - but what *is* true IMO is that the budget was never up to the job he was given, namely that of addressing years of mismanagement and drift (while the tail end of it was still going on) and getting us back up to the very top level. Rafa made his own mistakes, which compounded the difficulties he was faced with, but that shouldn't obscure the fact that those difficulties were there.
[/quote]
Another post I agree with. I am not blinkered with Rafa love- I just think he gets a bad press in here. RAWK is obviously the polar opposite, which is equally annoying.

In particular I agree with JJ's point about dragging the club forward. We were CL regulars and one of the most feared teams in Europe under Rafa, up until that last fateful year.
[/quote]Not to mix up the debate even further but it annoys me that Houllier was critiscised for ONLY qualifying for the champions league 3 out of 5 years, even though he only finished outside the top 4 once. Rafa finished outside the top 4 twice and wouldnt have been in the champions league in 2006 on league position. Obviously he went and won the trophy and managed to get the rules changed which is massive.

 

[vantage]

Oncy I do know what you mean, but under Rafa I just knew that we could win any tie. Under Ged I worried about each one.

No-one wanted to play us.

 

[Oncy]

[quote author=vantage link=topic=45815.msg1354226#msg1354226 date=1308868407]
Oncy I do know what you mean, but under Rafa I just knew that we could win any tie. Under Ged I worried about each one.

No-one wanted to play us.
[/quote]Very true. In Europe he was pretty much without compare. Its a shame he treated the league in the same way. Once or twice in his reign it looked as if he would take the shackles off and let us try to win games rather than seeing an away draw as a result.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Dreamy Alert.

"He's won twenty twelve titles you know. How many of our players have?"

 

[Spionkop69]

[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=45815.msg1354234#msg1354234 date=1308869167]
Dreamy Alert.

"He's won twenty twelve titles you know. How many of our players have?"
[/quote]

Arf

 

[Modo]

O'Shea is a mirage. IMO it's a common case of a decent player playing for a great team which ends up making him look better than he actually is.

 

[themn]

[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=45815.msg1354234#msg1354234 date=1308869167]
Dreamy Alert.

"He's won twenty twelve titles you know. How many of our players have?"
[/quote]

Painfully accurate.