LFC SOLD to NESV.

[ragehard]

Re: Liverpool Board set to block G+H's mortgage attempts

[quote author=Rosco link=topic=41783.msg1171787#msg1171787 date=1284101767]
RBS won't refinance because the club is being financially supported by it's parent company, it isn't self sustaining. If they were to refinance again they would be depending on the Yanks to stump up the interest every year indefinitely.

And they would be nuts to rely on that.
[/quote]

ok thanks rosco.

so what's stopping them setting up a new finance package against the club rather than the parent company?

they must already be trying to refinance elsewhere. anyone know how they've been getting on?

 

[spider-Neil]

Re: Liverpool Board set to block G+H's mortgage attempts

I'm not getting my hopes up, there are some freaking crazy lending firms out there...

oceans finance may decide to enter the 'big time'

 

[Avmenon]

Re: Liverpool Board set to block G+H's mortgage attempts

It could happen, but potential lenders would have to ask whether the risks of default outweigh the potential interest earned.

If the Yanks default, I doubt any of these lenders would be interested in owning a bankrupt football club.

 

[jexykrodic]

Re: Liverpool Board set to block G+H's mortgage attempts

So, G&H might refinance or not.
There might be a legal challenge by G&H to allow them to ramp up further debt or not.
RBS might allow the October 6 deadline to come and go and they'd be defacto owners or not.
We may go into administration or not.
We may be deducted 9 points or not.
We are a well run club but in debt or not.
We might find out on October 6th or not.

It's not a straight line to Utopia is it?

 

[ragehard]

Re: Liverpool Board set to block G+H's mortgage attempts

if its mortgaged against the club and they default then they'll at least break even. say they keep it going for 12 months. that's 12 months of interest payments earned and they'll own a club that i don't think they'd struggle to sell for more than the original loan amount.

i like your optimism avmenon but i think this one has a few more twists and turns. rbs taking over in less than a month and then auctioning us or selling us on like a house repossession seems too good to be true.

 

[Avmenon]

Re: Liverpool Board set to block G+H's mortgage attempts

I'm not optimistic at all, unfortunately.

Have to see what transpires.

 

[Woland]

Re: Liverpool Board set to block G+H's mortgage attempts

I think it's a no-brainer for RBS to refinance. They get a shagload more money for nothing and the risk doesn't increase.

 

[Y1]

Re: Liverpool Board set to block G+H's mortgage attempts

Looks like we have no offers to buy at the current price, whatever it is.

Therefore imho:

Best case scenario:
Bank foreclose, we go into administration and lose 9 points and bank auction to those who are willing to buy the debt and have some money to build stadium and buy better players, meaning owners gets zilch and we remain in the EPL, just.

Worst case scenario:
We go into administration and lose 9 points and there is no buyers despite auction on the cheap. Bank sells assets and players. We get relegated and LFC sank into the black hole of history.

 

[jexykrodic]

Re: Liverpool Board set to block G+H's mortgage attempts

[quote author=crump link=topic=41783.msg1171810#msg1171810 date=1284104867]
I think it's a no-brainer for RBS to refinance. They get a shagload more money for nothing and the risk doesn't increase.
[/quote]

Isn't that just shunting the problem further on though?

 

[Woland]

Re: Liverpool Board set to block G+H's mortgage attempts

[quote author=jexykrodic link=topic=41783.msg1171813#msg1171813 date=1284105039]
[quote author=crump link=topic=41783.msg1171810#msg1171810 date=1284104867]
I think it's a no-brainer for RBS to refinance. They get a shagload more money for nothing and the risk doesn't increase.
[/quote]

Isn't that just shunting the problem further on though?
[/quote]

Not if you're the bank. They must be convinced they'll get their 237 whatever happens at some point in the future, so that's safe enough. All this 150 talk only makes sense if they only get one bidder and I doubt any of the people who have been interested at 3 or 400 would stand round while another party bought the place for 150 - but even if that is the case it doesn't change next year all of a sudden, in fact it could seemingly only get better. If in the meantime the bank can generate another 40 million quid for doing nothing, not lending another bean and just sitting tight - why wouldn't they?

 

[Molbystwin]

Re: Liverpool Board set to block G+H's mortgage attempts

[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=41783.msg1171789#msg1171789 date=1284101833]
[quote author=Molbystwin link=topic=41783.msg1171717#msg1171717 date=1284065705]
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=41783.msg1171713#msg1171713 date=1284063323]
I'm worried now
[/quote]

And you weren't before? Rosco is right the club does lose money but he's wrong by playing that up when in fact regardless of our profitability or lack thereof we've gone from being badly run to disastrously run.... If, as that report suggests, the bank is going to get tough and do all they can to dispose of them two chancers 9 point deduction will mean fuck all to us in the long run as the fact is we are a mid table clubwith them in charge Get fucking rid
[/quote]

You could be dramatically negative and go for the worst case scenarios every time as an almost given, if you really wanted to.

Oh.
[/quote]

Manager "limiting damage", banks possibly foreclosure on a mountain of debt, 7th in the league....

Oh

At what point exactly will you be worried Mark??

I do not think for one second that we can improve under the current owners and I think they should go, and have consistently said so for a very long time filled with broken promises and "big summers". In my opinion if they dont fuck off we will continue in all likelihood to scrabble around "limiting damage" while other teams pick up the silverware, I dont see that as overly negative Mark its just realism.

9 points isn't my biggest fear for the club right now.

 

[spider-Neil]

Re: Liverpool Board set to block G+H's mortgage attempts

nine points would almost certainly spell the end of our CL hopes and signal the departure of torres, but if that's what it takes to get rid of those two cunts (no, I don't mean insua and lucas) then that what it takes.

 

[peterhague]

Re: Liverpool Board set to block G+H's mortgage attempts

i still don't understand why we would be docked nine points - i don't see any threat of administration, unless the premier league would treat repossession by the bank as equivalent to administration. can anyone clarify this? rosco? anyone?


i found the following source which backs up what i'm saying (no points deduction), don't know how reliable the source is though: http://www.caughtoffside.com/2010/09/06/liverpool-dangerously-close-to-nine-point-premier-league-deduction/

 

[Jack D Rips]

Re: Liverpool Board set to block G+H's mortgage attempts

[quote author=peterhague link=topic=41783.msg1171861#msg1171861 date=1284111860]
i still don't understand why we would be docked nine points - i don't see any threat of administration, unless the premier league would treat repossession by the bank as equivalent to administration. can anyone clarify this? rosco? anyone?


i found the following source which backs up what i'm saying (no points deduction), don't know how reliable the source is though: http://www.caughtoffside.com/2010/09/06/liverpool-dangerously-close-to-nine-point-premier-league-deduction/
[/quote]

The headline says we are dangerously close to having a 9 point deduction , the the body of the article says that we wont have a 9 point deduction

 

[Vlads Quiff]

Re: Liverpool Board set to block G+H's mortgage attempts

Yes, but it's headlines that sell stories. 😉

regards

 

[Jack D Rips]

Re: Liverpool Board set to block G+H's mortgage attempts

I've been told that the front page headline of the "Oirish S**" today is that Roy Keane's dog has died.

 

[Judge Jules]

Re: Liverpool Board set to block G+H's mortgage attempts

[quote author=crump link=topic=41783.msg1171810#msg1171810 date=1284104867]
I think it's a no-brainer for RBS to refinance. They get a shagload more money for nothing and the risk doesn't increase.
[/quote]

They don't appear to agree with you. "The Times" today reports them as having moved the debt into their "toxic assets", adding that this increases the likelihood that they'll say enough is enough and take the club from H and G if the debt isn't repaid on/by 6th October.

 

[Le Chacal]

Re: Liverpool Board set to block G+H's mortgage attempts

Maybe that could help a bit..

http://www.empireofthekop.com/anfield/?p=21293&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

 

[Avmenon]

Re: Liverpool Board set to block G+H's mortgage attempts

It won't; but I feel a little better after signing it.

 

[Rosco]

Re: Liverpool Board set to block G+H's mortgage attempts

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=41783.msg1171791#msg1171791 date=1284102227]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=41783.msg1171787#msg1171787 date=1284101767]
RBS won't refinance because the club is being financially supported by it's parent company, it isn't self sustaining. If they were to refinance again they would be depending on the Yanks to stump up the interest every year indefinitely.

And they would be nuts to rely on that.
[/quote]

so why did they refinance in april?
[/quote]

To give the Yanks a chance to sell the club, and obviously Broughton became part of this deal.

 

[Rosco]

Re: Liverpool Board set to block G+H's mortgage attempts

[quote author=peterhague link=topic=41783.msg1171861#msg1171861 date=1284111860]
i still don't understand why we would be docked nine points - i don't see any threat of administration, unless the premier league would treat repossession by the bank as equivalent to administration. can anyone clarify this? rosco? anyone?


i found the following source which backs up what i'm saying (no points deduction), don't know how reliable the source is though: http://www.caughtoffside.com/2010/09/06/liverpool-dangerously-close-to-nine-point-premier-league-deduction/
[/quote]

You had it nailed in another thread.

RBS will seek to enforce the terms of the debt, that is take over the club. Hicks and Gillett have two options, let it happen or petition the high court to put us into administration to (temporarily at least) keep RBS at bay.

And while this isn't aimed at you, it's worth noting that the Yanks won't exactly be left with nothing - the parent company is still owed the money that it put into the club. 8m a year in interest is due to them until that debt is paid back.

 

[Judge Jules]

Re: Liverpool Board set to block G+H's mortgage attempts

Exactly. The only thing I might add is that (while there are no guarantees) they may well not get what they want even if they do go to the High Court, given their delay already in paying what they owe.

 

[Rosco]

Re: Liverpool Board set to block G+H's mortgage attempts

The shrewd investors will have been hanging back (I hope anyway) in the knowledge that the Yanks would struggle to get finance and that RBS have to step in sooner rather than later. And they'll know the price drops to whatever RBS want for their debt at that point.

There is also an informative article in the Guardian on the issue today which I don't see posted:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/sep/09/rbs-tom-hicks-george-gillett-sell-liverpool

Clearly if a refinance was on the cards the Toxic Debt department wouldn't be dealing with us.

 

[localny]

Re: Liverpool Board set to block G+H's mortgage attempts

Could be a toxic smokescreen Ros.. (kidding).

Anyone else see this one back in June?

[size=12pt]Report: Hicks Means It When He Says He'll Make Up Stars, Rangers Losses With Liverpool[/size]
By Robert Wilonsky, Tue., Jun. 8 2010 @ 12:06PM

Dallas Cowboy by Kit Nelson
?
In its Tom Hicks puff piece a couple of Sundays ago, The Dallas Morning News noted that Hicks expects to lose, oh, maybe a "couple hundred million" on the sales of the Texas Rangers and Dallas Stars. But no worries: Hicks told the paper he'd make up those losses when he finally sells Liverpool FC. Which is worth noting because the U.K. Mirror has this exclusive concerning two potential buyers for the storied soccer team who've backed out because, sources say, Hicks refuses to budge off his asking price of close to £800 million.

Says the story, buyers out of the Middle East and "a consortium led by a prominent American businessman" have expressed real interest in taking the Reds off Hicks and George Gillett's hands. Problem is, Barclays Capital, charged with finding a buyer, can't get Hicks to come down -- while Gillett, on the other hand, is more than willing to bargain since he's tired of being hounded by Spirit of Shankly. An excerpt:

A source working on the sale of the Merseyside club for BarCap revealed privately: "We have found more than one really good fit investors, who have the wealth not to worry about a few hundred million quid. But they will not be held to ransom, because they know the asking price is unreasonable, and they simply don't want to be taken for a ride, no matter how rich they are."

There is a growing fear amongst those close to the deal that Hicks' business empire has been suffering in the global economic crisis, and that is motivating his hard-line stance over a price.

 

[Judge Jules]

Re: Liverpool Board set to block G+H's mortgage attempts

With RBS apparently toughening its stance and getting ready to lower the boom on Statler and Waldorf, is there any chance Hicks might buckle at the last minute and take the best offer on the table? Surely it would pay him to sell direct rather than see RBS do it, since they're hardly likely to prioritise his interests in the process.

 

[the count]

Re: Liverpool Board set to block G+H's mortgage attempts

I am far from aware of the whole sitution but I would have thought it is unlikely that any investor would offer Hicks and Gilett a price which see them make a profit when it looks likely that they can buy it from the banks in another month at a lesser price.

 

[Judge Jules]

Re: Liverpool Board set to block G+H's mortgage attempts

The only thing there is the possibility of legal action from H and G if the bank does take over. That may or may not have much hope of success, but either way it could snarl up the sale process for quite a while. A buyer's who's sufficiently interested *might* be prepared to offer a small premium for a quick sale.

 

[the count]

Re: Liverpool Board set to block G+H's mortgage attempts

I am not conviced JJ.
At this stage I doubt we will have new owners in place before the January window.

 

[Judge Jules]

Re: Liverpool Board set to block G+H's mortgage attempts

I suspect you're right, count, but I'm not giving up hope yet.

 

[Wilko7]

Re: Liverpool Board set to block G+H's mortgage attempts

[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=41783.msg1172078#msg1172078 date=1284145917]
With RBS apparently toughening its stance and getting ready to lower the boom on Statler and Waldorf, is there any chance Hicks might buckle at the last minute and take the best offer on the table? Surely it would pay him to sell direct rather than see RBS do it, since they're hardly likely to prioritise his interests in the process.
[/quote]

That's if there are any offers on the table to take, Jules.