LFC SOLD to NESV.

[Farkmaster]

Re: Liverpool Board set to block G+H's mortgage attempts

[quote author=keniget link=topic=41783.msg1172299#msg1172299 date=1284202844]
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=41783.msg1172296#msg1172296 date=1284202758]
He's got a job at a club that he'd not otherwise have a chance at, a club he might feel he could at least steady, which isn't an impossible task. He took the challenge knowing that unlike Rafa he'd get some sympathy, because he's the new, inoffensive English guy. He took it knowing that there'd be a significant chance that the ownership situation would be resolved, giving him a period to impress the new owner.

I think he wanted the challenge, and knew he'd not have another chance at a club of the size.
[/quote]

We're talking about Broughton Fark.
[/quote]

"You're like a child, wandering into the middle of a movie!!"

Ah, then money and attention, what do I win?

 

[Hansern]

Re: Liverpool Board set to block G+H's mortgage attempts

Andrew_Heaton

Further to the earlier news from Bloomberg and The Guardian, apparently the #LFC account is now being personally overseen by Stephen Hester

 

[Judge Jules]

Re: Liverpool Board set to block G+H's mortgage attempts

That doesn't surprise me, after his earlier remarks about the loan having been too big in the first place.

On the question why Broughton took the job, I wonder what part personal connections played in that. He may not have felt he could easily turn down whoever it was that asked him to take it on.

 

[FoxForceFive]

Re: Liverpool Board set to block G+H's mortgage attempts

[quote author=Hansern link=topic=41783.msg1172307#msg1172307 date=1284203568]
Andrew_Heaton

Further to the earlier news from Bloomberg and The Guardian, apparently the #LFC account is now being personally overseen by Stephen Hester
[/quote]

Good news, he'll be at least very reluctant to extend the load period judging by his previous comments, if not dead set against it.

 

[Woland]

Re: Liverpool Board set to block G+H's mortgage attempts

He's also a Manure fan.

 

[ragehard]

Re: Liverpool Board set to block G+H's mortgage attempts

it seems that rbs seem very reluctant to re-finance under the existing terms. i'm sure they'll change their minds if the deal suits them. like any bank all they are interested in is making the most money they can for the least risk.

if/once stories break that other banks are refusing them i'll start to hope that we have a chance here

 

[Judge Jules]

Re: Liverpool Board set to block G+H's mortgage attempts

[quote author=ragehard link=topic=41783.msg1172378#msg1172378 date=1284209680]
it seems that rbs seem very reluctant to re-finance under the existing terms. i'm sure they'll change their minds if the deal suits them. like any bank all they are interested in is making the most money they can for the least risk.

if/once stories break that other banks are refusing them i'll start to hope that we have a chance here
[/quote]

That bolded bit is the key though. It looks like Hester may have decided that refinancing would simply be a case of throwing good money after bad. Let's hope so.

 

[Hansern]

Re: Liverpool Board set to block G+H's mortgage attempts

[quote author=crump link=topic=41783.msg1172372#msg1172372 date=1284209284]
He's also a Manure fan.
[/quote]

And that is of extremely little relevance in this case.
Unless he has been planning for this his entire adult work life of course. Biding his time, getting promotion after promotion at RBS, planning a great big finale against the club he hates.
And then his moment of glory comes. He fucks us over by refinancing the Yanks, signing the contract in his Scum kit.

Nah, I don't see it mate.

 

[ragehard]

Re: Liverpool Board set to block G+H's mortgage attempts

oncy should put up some sort of countdown clock.

 

[TheBunnyman]

Re: Liverpool Board set to block G+H's mortgage attempts

I don't see what the mystery is with Broughton. He came because he's getting paid (I would imagine) a huge amount of money for one day's work per week. There's probably lucrative incentives in the contract too.

It's not a question of whether he *needs* the money, is it? He doesn't *need* it in the same way as ordinary people do, but did Gareth Barry *need* the extra £20k per week that City were offering him? Of course he didn't, but people are greedy. Especially rich people. I mean, do you have any idea how much tax they're paying? It's fucking outrageous...

 

[Woland]

Re: Liverpool Board set to block G+H's mortgage attempts

[quote author=Hansern link=topic=41783.msg1172385#msg1172385 date=1284210396]
[quote author=crump link=topic=41783.msg1172372#msg1172372 date=1284209284]
He's also a Manure fan.
[/quote]

And that is of extremely little relevance in this case.
Unless he has been planning for this his entire adult work life of course. Biding his time, getting promotion after promotion at RBS, planning a great big finale against the club he hates.
And then his moment of glory comes. He fucks us over by refinancing the Yanks, signing the contract in his Scum kit.

Nah, I don't see it mate.
[/quote]

I'm just pointing out that he'll be doing what's best for RBS and no-one else. I've read all the stuff about toxic debts but I think it's in the bank's best interest to extend the loan. Someone just posted that they could be throwing good money after bad. No they couldn't. They aren't offering any more money, just getting more repayments. I'm probably very much mistaken as none of the journalists agree, but if you're paying your bills and generating loads of profit - which Liverpool are doing for RBS - why would they want to stop such an arrangement?

 

[Insignificance]

Re: Liverpool Board set to block G+H's mortgage attempts

[quote author=crump link=topic=41783.msg1172394#msg1172394 date=1284211068]
[quote author=Hansern link=topic=41783.msg1172385#msg1172385 date=1284210396]
[quote author=crump link=topic=41783.msg1172372#msg1172372 date=1284209284]
He's also a Manure fan.
[/quote]

And that is of extremely little relevance in this case.
Unless he has been planning for this his entire adult work life of course. Biding his time, getting promotion after promotion at RBS, planning a great big finale against the club he hates.
And then his moment of glory comes. He fucks us over by refinancing the Yanks, signing the contract in his Scum kit.

Nah, I don't see it mate.
[/quote]

I'm just pointing out that he'll be doing what's best for RBS and no-one else. I've read all the stuff about toxic debts but I think it's in the bank's best interest to extend the loan. Someone just posted that they could be throwing good money after bad. No they couldn't. They aren't offering any more money, just getting more repayments. I'm probably very much mistaken as none of the journalists agree, but if you're paying your bills and generating loads of profit - which Liverpool are doing for RBS - why would they want to stop such an arrangement?
[/quote]

Because they have allready attmitted that this loan should never vern given, and a bank has quite stilt ethical and juridical restrictions to follow.

 

[El Pistolero]

Re: Liverpool Board set to block G+H's mortgage attempts

[quote author=Insignificance link=topic=41783.msg1172397#msg1172397 date=1284211458]
[quote author=crump link=topic=41783.msg1172394#msg1172394 date=1284211068]
[quote author=Hansern link=topic=41783.msg1172385#msg1172385 date=1284210396]
[quote author=crump link=topic=41783.msg1172372#msg1172372 date=1284209284]
He's also a Manure fan.
[/quote]

And that is of extremely little relevance in this case.
Unless he has been planning for this his entire adult work life of course. Biding his time, getting promotion after promotion at RBS, planning a great big finale against the club he hates.
And then his moment of glory comes. He fucks us over by refinancing the Yanks, signing the contract in his Scum kit.

Nah, I don't see it mate.
[/quote]

I'm just pointing out that he'll be doing what's best for RBS and no-one else. I've read all the stuff about toxic debts but I think it's in the bank's best interest to extend the loan. Someone just posted that they could be throwing good money after bad. No they couldn't. They aren't offering any more money, just getting more repayments. I'm probably very much mistaken as none of the journalists agree, but if you're paying your bills and generating loads of profit - which Liverpool are doing for RBS - why would they want to stop such an arrangement?
[/quote]

Because they have allready attmitted that this loan should never vern given, and a bank has quite stilt ethical and juridical restrictions to follow.
[/quote]

I'm with crump if we are still able to make repayments on the loan, then what is to stop the bank, and let's be honest since when has a bank acted ethically. It's all about the money to them.

 

[Woland]

Re: Liverpool Board set to block G+H's mortgage attempts

You can always rely on the banks to be society's moral arbiter

 

[localny]

Re: Liverpool Board set to block G+H's mortgage attempts

RBS wants to get all it's money back. How can they do this.

If it extends the loan, it makes it less certain....as a refinanced packaged loan will likely send Liverpool down the road of bankruptcy since the club's bank payments are unsustainable.

However, they know they can get ALL their money back if they call in loan and sell to a buyer who is lined up (possibly)

Ironically if we were still in the CL and had the $ coming in, there's a greater chance the loan might be extended, since LFC would have had more money to pay out in interest.

 

[Woland]

Re: Liverpool Board set to block G+H's mortgage attempts

[quote author=localny link=topic=41783.msg1172421#msg1172421 date=1284212627]
If it extends the loan, it makes it less certain....as a refinanced packaged loan will likely send Liverpool down the road of bankruptcy since the club's bank payments are unsustainable.
[/quote]

No they're not.

 

[dee]

Re: Liverpool Board set to block G+H's mortgage attempts

[quote author=crump link=topic=41783.msg1172425#msg1172425 date=1284212753]
[quote author=localny link=topic=41783.msg1172421#msg1172421 date=1284212627]
If it extends the loan, it makes it less certain....as a refinanced packaged loan will likely send Liverpool down the road of bankruptcy since the club's bank payments are unsustainable.
[/quote]

No they're not.
[/quote]

Since the club was unable to make a profit when we were in the champions league due to the repayments and there is a payment in kind element then I think sustainable they're not.

 

[Judge Jules]

Re: Liverpool Board set to block G+H's mortgage attempts

Whether or not the club's bank payments are sustainable, they're still only paying off the interest. The actual amount of the loan isn't being reduced and RBS has got to do something about that with the Government breathing down its neck as principal shareholder. That's not going to happen as long as H and G are still in place, and by the look of it Hester's fully aware of that. If H and G get refinancing they'll try to hang on by their fingertips until the new TV deal comes in, and RBS simply can't afford to allow that to happen.

 

[Woland]

Re: Liverpool Board set to block G+H's mortgage attempts

[quote author=Dee link=topic=41783.msg1172436#msg1172436 date=1284214734]
[quote author=crump link=topic=41783.msg1172425#msg1172425 date=1284212753]
[quote author=localny link=topic=41783.msg1172421#msg1172421 date=1284212627]
If it extends the loan, it makes it less certain....as a refinanced packaged loan will likely send Liverpool down the road of bankruptcy since the club's bank payments are unsustainable.
[/quote]

No they're not.
[/quote]

Since the club was unable to make a profit when we were in the champions league due to the repayments and there is a payment in kind element then I think sustainable they're not.
[/quote]

We made up for that particular shortfall with hugely better sponsorship arrangements.

 

[Woland]

Re: Liverpool Board set to block G+H's mortgage attempts

[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=41783.msg1172437#msg1172437 date=1284214791]
Whether or not the club's bank payments are sustainable, they're still only paying off the interest. The actual amount of the loan isn't being reduced and RBS has got to do something about that with the Government breathing down its neck as principal shareholder. That's not going to happen as long as H and G are still in place, and by the look of it Hester's fully aware of that. If H and G get refinancing they'll try to hang on by their fingertips until the new TV deal comes in, and RBS simply can't afford to allow that to happen.
[/quote]

Why? What banks do is lend people money to make a profit. They're making more profit per quid out of Liverpool than they are out of personal mortgages and crap. The asset isn't devaluing. The journalists are stating that RBS would settle for 150m - why when that can be their profit for the next four years and the asset is still there? Makes no sense to me. Anyways. Off the gym.

 

[Judge Jules]

Re: Liverpool Board set to block G+H's mortgage attempts

For a couple of reasons. One - the government's on its uppers too and isn't about to let them play Monopoly with money it can't spare (I happen to share your scepticism about the £150 mill.figure, but if there IS anything in that story this'll be the reason why). Two - the asset will start devaluing PDQ if H and G don't f'ck off smartish - if they don't, investment will dry up completely and our chances of success with it.

 

[localny]

Re: Liverpool Board set to block G+H's mortgage attempts

[quote author=crump link=topic=41783.msg1172439#msg1172439 date=1284215041]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=41783.msg1172437#msg1172437 date=1284214791]
Whether or not the club's bank payments are sustainable, they're still only paying off the interest. The actual amount of the loan isn't being reduced and RBS has got to do something about that with the Government breathing down its neck as principal shareholder. That's not going to happen as long as H and G are still in place, and by the look of it Hester's fully aware of that. If H and G get refinancing they'll try to hang on by their fingertips until the new TV deal comes in, and RBS simply can't afford to allow that to happen.
[/quote]

Why? What banks do is lend people money to make a profit. They're making more profit per quid out of Liverpool than they are out of personal mortgages and crap. The asset isn't devaluing. The journalists are stating that RBS would settle for 150m - why when that can be their profit for the next four years and the asset is still there? Makes no sense to me. Anyways. Off the gym.
[/quote]

Because they will make a bigger killing in the short term (sale), than in the longer term (a depreciating asset going into deeper and deeper risk, selling players to just maintain payment, lessening the likelihood of making the CL). If you game it out, it's in the bank's interest to see it sold. It's also a potential PR nightmare for them as it's being played out very publicly. Milking the club so you can bleed it to a slow death? It's too public a view for that to happen

 

[localny]

Re: Liverpool Board set to block G+H's mortgage attempts

[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=41783.msg1172443#msg1172443 date=1284215648]
For a couple of reasons. One - the government's on its uppers too and isn't about to let them play Monopoly with money it can't spare (I happen to share your scepticism about the £150 mill.figure, but if there IS anything in that story this'll be the reason why). Two - the asset will start devaluing PDQ if H and G don't f'ck off smartish - if they don't, investment will dry up completely and our chances of success with it.
[/quote]

Well said; in this economy, the biggest shareholder will surely want the cash back in the bank.

 

[Rosco]

Re: Liverpool Board set to block G+H's mortgage attempts

[quote author=crump link=topic=41783.msg1172425#msg1172425 date=1284212753]
[quote author=localny link=topic=41783.msg1172421#msg1172421 date=1284212627]
If it extends the loan, it makes it less certain....as a refinanced packaged loan will likely send Liverpool down the road of bankruptcy since the club's bank payments are unsustainable.
[/quote]

No they're not.
[/quote]

The only reason the club hasn't gone under already is because the Yanks had to put in somewhere between 130-144m to cover the losses over three years , largely caused by the interest.

So effectively the club is unable to pay back the interest, RBS would be relying on Hicks and Gillett themselves to pay it. Last time I checked Hicks was bankrupt, not sure how Gillett is doing.

I'll be amazed if they allow it to continue.

 

[Woland]

Re: Liverpool Board set to block G+H's mortgage attempts

The reason I disagree with all that is because I doubt the asset will devalue below 237 million - (given that the club cost 174m and had a debt of 40, and the value now should be much bigger due to a huge increase in revenues and the fact that it was undervalued at that time) - so why would the bank want cash in? This is their business, this what they do. Banks have never been more profitable than they are right now - because the base rate is so low and because businesses such as LFC are paying such a massive premium to borrow money.

Even if the yanks go bust, the bank retains the asset - and they'll still get their money back for it.

 

[Rosco]

Re: Liverpool Board set to block G+H's mortgage attempts

It's a heavily indebted loss making business with little or no financial flexibility situated in a highly competitive and volatile market. There is little or no prospect of increasing revenues significantly in the next three to five years, since TV and Sponsorship deals are locked up so that leaves the only way of increasing revenues being a new stadium - which needs a massive outlay.

We're not exactly an investor's dream.

 

[Woland]

Re: Liverpool Board set to block G+H's mortgage attempts

The debt isn't the issue to a potential buyer from the bank. I mean the yanks had to pay 214 to get through the door and any new owner now would have to pay 237, the difference being that turnover has gone from 110 to 180 million a year. It's a bargain. The overhead is the crap bank arrangements.

 

[Rosco]

Re: Liverpool Board set to block G+H's mortgage attempts

[quote author=crump link=topic=41783.msg1172521#msg1172521 date=1284224296]
The debt isn't the issue to a potential buyer from the bank. I mean the yanks had to pay 214 to get through the door and any new owner now would have to pay 237, the difference being that turnover has gone from 110 to 180 million a year. It's a bargain. The overhead is the crap bank arrangements.
[/quote]

There is also 144m owed to the Yanks.

 

[Woland]

Re: Liverpool Board set to block G+H's mortgage attempts

There's no charge on the business for that debt. If and when the banks repossess at any point that's just tough for the yanks - and the yanks can't pay it off without paying RBS first - so that's safe.

The business made an operating profit of 27m before player movements and interest last season, and this season we'll make an extra 20m through improved sponsorship, while losing some to the CL - which is unknown right now as a good run in the Europa could be nearly as good as last years debacle anyways. It's a good business.

By the way, this is all just my thoughts on it. I'm no expert in any of it. It's just the journos view of it doesn't add up to me.

 

[Rosco]

Re: Liverpool Board set to block G+H's mortgage attempts

Where are you getting the figures from ?

I've got the accounts in PDF format and they don't say that. We made a 52m loss, 40m of which was interest. So we're 12m in the red without the interest.

The increased sponsorship is offset by the massive decline in money from European fixtures.