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LFC SOLD to NESV.

Re: Merged Topics: Club Refinance Thread

I take your point DBP, and wholeheartedly agree that too many are far too passive in their opposition however that is, or has been the majority feeling up till now. SoS have placed themselves as a radically political group, deliberately or otherwise and in doing so have completely missed the point of their mission which should have been to solidify and foment opposition from the fans into meaningful action. The German model of fandom is far superior to the current system in England, much to our shame, but IMO although also ultimately unsuccessful the protests by Man Utd fans against the glazers have been far more inclusive and visible than SoS attempts and considering they have been challenging in the meantime that is impressive. A few whoppers reading nostalgic poems and a poorly supported walk to the ground from the pub .... Come on.....

Yes SoS have a point and yes they are fundamentally right but they have not done a good job up until now and I fear they won't unless they get serious about getting everyone involved without self serving whopperdom.
 
Re: Merged Topics: Club Refinance Thread

Who really wants to be associated with people that say Lucas is the best midfielder in the club,
say we should get rid of Carra and Gerrard,
are still crying about Rafa's sack?

They are fundamently wrong,
They are not the voice of Liverpool fans, its very worrying loads of people think so
They are damaging the club, its image and its (proper) fans.
 
Re: Merged Topics: Club Refinance Thread

[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=41783.msg1176609#msg1176609 date=1284780317]
Who really wants to be associated with people that say Lucas is the best midfielder in the club,
say we should get rid of Carra and Gerrard,
are still crying about Rafa's sack?

They are fundamently wrong,
They are not the voice of Liverpool fans, its very worrying loads of people think so
They are damaging the club, its image and its (proper) fans.
[/quote]

There wouldn't be broad agreement in SoS or even just RAWK about any of those things. So I'm not quite sure what the fuck you are going on about.
 
Re: Merged Topics: Club Refinance Thread

[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=41783.msg1176610#msg1176610 date=1284780553]
[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=41783.msg1176609#msg1176609 date=1284780317]
Who really wants to be associated with people that say Lucas is the best midfielder in the club,
say we should get rid of Carra and Gerrard,
are still crying about Rafa's sack?

They are fundamently wrong,
They are not the voice of Liverpool fans, its very worrying loads of people think so
They are damaging the club, its image and its (proper) fans.
[/quote]

There wouldn't be broad agreement in SoS or even just RAWK about any of those things. So I'm not quite sure what the fuck you are going on about.


[/quote]
There are thousands posts on RAWK about these things...Loads of SoS members are RAWK influential members or vice versa.

It will be very interesting to see wahts happening with RAWK and SoS when we have new owners at the end of the year...
 
Re: Merged Topics: Club Refinance Thread

[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=41783.msg1176611#msg1176611 date=1284781316]
There are thousands posts on RAWK about these things...Loads of SoS members are RAWK influential members or vice versa.

It will be very interesting to see wahts happening with RAWK and SoS when we have new owners at the end of the year...
[/quote]

There are thousands of retarded posts on here too, and clearly that number is rising. What precisely opinions on Lucas, Rafa, etc. which are varied, have to do with SoS, you haven't really explained.

I've got little enthusiasm for SoS, but there's nothing particularly clever about joining the orthodoxy of this particular board, and glibly shitting on their largely well-intentioned efforts, when you clearly haven't thought through your objection to them at all. In other words, I'd rather their impotent blind groping at solutions to our shit owners than your blind groping at an understanding of their organization.
 
Re: Merged Topics: Club Refinance Thread

[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=41783.msg1176609#msg1176609 date=1284780317]
Who really wants to be associated with people that say Lucas is the best midfielder in the club,
say we should get rid of Carra and Gerrard,
are still crying about Rafa's sack?

They are fundamently wrong,
They are not the voice of Liverpool fans, its very worrying loads of people think so
They are damaging the club, its image and its (proper) fans.
[/quote]

As Farky said, I don't think you can really associate the two together Tony.
 
Re: Merged Topics: Club Refinance Thread

Hmm, starting to think that Hicks is on a serious last ditch attempt here, this last one just makes it all sound like BS.


Tom Hicks's last-ditch attempt to retain control of Liverpool is likely to be opposed even more vehemently than previously thought, as the American's proposals are understood to include a plan to restore his son, Tom Hicks Jr, to the Anfield operation. Hicks Jr resigned in January as a director of Liverpool and its parent company, Kop Holdings, after an abusive exchange with a supporter, to whom he retorted in an email: "Blow me fuck face."

The news that Hicks Sr, co-owner of Liverpool with George Gillett, was in London discussing raising loans to replace Liverpool's £237m bank debts and thereby keep control already alarmed supporters this week. Liverpool's three directors besides Hicks and Gillett – the chairman, Martin Broughton, the managing director, Christian Purslow, and the commercial director, Ian Ayre – are expected to oppose any refinancing of the club's debts presented by Hicks Sr, on more onerous terms than the interest Liverpool currently pay. The revelation that Hicks is planning to bring back his son will further inflame the anger harboured by many Liverpool fans against their club's American owners.

Hicks Sr, whose representative would not confirm any details, was said to be in talks this week with GSO, a division of the private equity firm Blackstone which, according to its website, specialises in debt-based lending to "stressed and distressed securities".

Liverpool's loans, understood to be around £180m owed to the Royal Bank of Scotland and £57m to Wells Fargo, are due to be repaid next month, although later than 6 October, which has generally been understood to be deadline day. Broughton has been trying to sell the club, which would see the loans repaid in full, but his hoped-for target date of the end of August has passed and no deal is realistically on the horizon.

The sudden spectre of Hicks obtaining an offer of new finance from GSO or another lender, to replace the loans from RBS and Wells Fargo at more burdensome interest rates, is expected to be opposed by the board majority. The three directors are likely to argue it would place the club in a worse financial position, and therefore not be in its best interests. Broughton, Purslow and Ayre are understood to have blocked another proposed refinancing presented by Hicks in June, and obtained advice from the City law firm Slaughter and May that they had legal authority to do so. Observers of the process believe Hicks's discussions are an effort to retain control of Liverpool before RBS's loans expire, and are unlikely to deliver a better deal for the club.

Hicks and Gillett promised to usher Liverpool to a more prosperous future when they took over in February 2007, saying theirs was not a "Glazer-style" debt-laden deal, and they would build the club the long-planned new stadium on neighbouring Stanley Park. It soon became clear the £185m they borrowed to buy Liverpool was indeed being made the club's responsibility to repay, and the stadium project has not even been started. As Liverpool's cherished status in English football slides, Anfield supporters have become increasingly vociferous in their campaign for Hicks and Gillett to go.

Broughton is said to have been unable to find a buyer so far because Gillett and particularly Hicks are seeking a large profit personally on the £185m cost of buying the club. A new buyer will have to pay the £237m debts in full, so a major profit to Hicks and Gillett – the figure of $600m (£390m) has been cited – makes a purchase hugely expensive, with the stadium, possibly costing £450m, to build as well.

The difficulty of finding a buyer while Hicks and Gillett can set the price, and the likelihood that any refinancing will be blocked by the other three board members, means the spotlight is turning on what RBS will do if its loans are still outstanding at the October repayment deadline. The bank, which collapsed in the financial crisis and is 84% owned by the British taxpayer, has always stressed it does not want to take control of Liverpool. It may instead offer to renew the loans, but with conditions attached requiring Hicks and Gillett to sell above a certain defined price.

All of which, as Liverpool prepare for their momentous visit to face Manchester United at Old Trafford tomorrow, depicts a club a very long way from healthy.
 
Re: Merged Topics: Club Refinance Thread

from the radio 5 report i just heard it seems to me this is how it will play out:

- hicks raises money to buy 100% of club from american banks at higher interest rate
- he goes to directors
- directors refuse
- he sacks directors and refinances anyway

so what is to stop him being able to sack the directors?

if he raises the money, and it looks as though he just might at a higher interest rate from those american investment banks he knows well, there may be nothing to stop him.
 
Re: Merged Topics: Club Refinance Thread

We might have a chance if the directors go to law over it and can drag things out till after the repayment date.
 
Re: Merged Topics: Club Refinance Thread

[quote author=ragehard link=topic=41783.msg1176651#msg1176651 date=1284797942]
from the radio 5 report i just heard it seems to me this is how it will play out:

- hicks raises money to buy 100% of club from american banks at higher interest rate
- he goes to directors
- directors refuse
- he sacks directors and refinances anyway

so what is to stop him being able to sack the directors?

if he raises the money, and it looks as though he just might at a higher interest rate from those american investment banks he knows well, there may be nothing to stop him.
[/quote]

RBS

He can't sack the directors until RBS have no claims over the club and he can't get the finance through to clear out RBS with the Board in place.

Catch 22.
 
Re: Merged Topics: Club Refinance Thread

[quote author=Rosco link=topic=41783.msg1176655#msg1176655 date=1284798443]
[quote author=ragehard link=topic=41783.msg1176651#msg1176651 date=1284797942]
from the radio 5 report i just heard it seems to me this is how it will play out:

- hicks raises money to buy 100% of club from american banks at higher interest rate
- he goes to directors
- directors refuse
- he sacks directors and refinances anyway

so what is to stop him being able to sack the directors?

if he raises the money, and it looks as though he just might at a higher interest rate from those american investment banks he knows well, there may be nothing to stop him.
[/quote]

RBS

He can't sack the directors until RBS have no claims over the club and he can't get the finance through to clear out RBS with the Board in place.

Catch 22.
[/quote]

some one must write a book, a broadway play or a TV series when all thse are over. There are more twists then a er lemon?
 
Re: Merged Topics: Club Refinance Thread

I think a lot of apologies are going to be owed to the likes of Broughton and Purslow after this is all done.
 
Re: Merged Topics: Club Refinance Thread

[quote author=ragehard link=topic=41783.msg1176651#msg1176651 date=1284797942]
from the radio 5 report i just heard it seems to me this is how it will play out:

- hicks raises money to buy 100% of club from american banks at higher interest rate
- he goes to directors
- directors refuse
- he sacks directors and refinances anyway

so what is to stop him being able to sack the directors?

if he raises the money, and it looks as though he just might at a higher interest rate from those american investment banks he knows well, there may be nothing to stop him.
[/quote]

But if he needs the board's position to borrow the money against the club (as I believe is the case), and he has no other significant asset to borrow against, then it is hard to see where he'll get the money from. Surely as well, in an era where the banks are trying to demonstrate responsible lending, no-one is going to give someone with such a poor record £300 mill? Surely to God.
 
Re: Merged Topics: Club Refinance Thread

[quote author=Rosco link=topic=41783.msg1176660#msg1176660 date=1284798745]
I think a lot of apologies are going to be owed to the likes of Broughton and Purslow after this is all done.
[/quote]

You're right , but it will never happen.
 
Re: Merged Topics: Club Refinance Thread

[quote author=Rosco link=topic=41783.msg1176660#msg1176660 date=1284798745]
I think a lot of apologies are going to be owed to the likes of Broughton and Purslow after this is all done.
[/quote]

Can't see that applying to their decision not to consider Kenny for interim boss, but agreed as far as their off-the-field work is concerned.
 
Re: Merged Topics: Club Refinance Thread

[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=41783.msg1176666#msg1176666 date=1284799770]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=41783.msg1176660#msg1176660 date=1284798745]
I think a lot of apologies are going to be owed to the likes of Broughton and Purslow after this is all done.
[/quote]

Can't see that applying to their decision not to consider Kenny for interim boss, but agreed as far as their off-the-field work is concerned.
[/quote]

They wanted Kenny to have a position of greater longevity (in Kenny's own words) so I don't see how that can be held against them.
 
Re: Merged Topics: Club Refinance Thread

Taken from another site, but hits the nail pretty much on the head.

So he's talking to about half a dozen part-partners about what he might do though no-one has agreed to anything yet or done any proper due dilligence or made any part ownership or arrangement proposals - and the fat c*nt has three weeks to sort it out and get it dusted, even though the Board and RBS stand against him.

Looks like the same desperate flaliling he went through in the US just before the Rangers were taken away from him. If he couldn't find willing investors or lenders for that for significantly less cash and in his own back garden, well - let's hope the end result is the same here.
 
Re: Merged Topics: Club Refinance Thread

[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=41783.msg1176661#msg1176661 date=1284798843]
[quote author=ragehard link=topic=41783.msg1176651#msg1176651 date=1284797942]
from the radio 5 report i just heard it seems to me this is how it will play out:

- hicks raises money to buy 100% of club from american banks at higher interest rate
- he goes to directors
- directors refuse
- he sacks directors and refinances anyway

so what is to stop him being able to sack the directors?

if he raises the money, and it looks as though he just might at a higher interest rate from those american investment banks he knows well, there may be nothing to stop him.
[/quote]

But if he needs the board's position to borrow the money against the club (as I believe is the case), and he has no other significant asset to borrow against, then it is hard to see where he'll get the money from. Surely as well, in an era where the banks are trying to demonstrate responsible lending, no-one is going to give someone with such a poor record £300 mill? Surely to God.
[/quote]

the banks are back to normal. responsible lending means what? - make sure if i have to repossess then the asset is worth at least what i loaned against it (rather than the silly 125% loans on overinflated values that were taking place before the banking crisis) and charge high interest rates (like what rbs are currently doing).

there will be some american bank(s) that at the very least will be interested. even if they're not rbs have already pretty much said that they'll refinance.
 
Re: Merged Topics: Club Refinance Thread

[quote author=ragehard link=topic=41783.msg1176671#msg1176671 date=1284801056]
there will be some american bank(s) that at the very least will be interested. even if they're not rbs have already pretty much said that they'll refinance.
[/quote]

Even if there are banks prepared to refinance, the Board would have to agree. I take it that even extends to RBS wanting to refinance?
 
Re: Merged Topics: Club Refinance Thread

Does anyone have a logical estimate of how much Liverpool Fc is actually worth?

Obviously not 800m. Obviously not 150m
 
Re: Merged Topics: Club Refinance Thread

[quote author=Rosco link=topic=41783.msg1176660#msg1176660 date=1284798745]
I think a lot of apologies are going to be owed to the likes of Broughton and Purslow after this is all done.
[/quote]


If they do manage to protect the club then indeed they will be due apologies .... But then If they did spend the summer trying to refinance as opposed to trying to sell the place..... It's hard to know what to believe I just don't fancy more of Hicks screwing us into the ground.
 
Re: Merged Topics: Club Refinance Thread

Fucking hell. Twenty five years ago under the impeccable leadership of Sir John Smith and Peter Robinson, it would be impossible to comprehend the circumstances in which the club finds itself today.

The slide started when the Moores family decided that their dunce of a son needed something to do.

I would ban that sack of shite from Anfield for life.
 
Re: Merged Topics: Club Refinance Thread

[quote author=Terrier link=topic=41783.msg1176676#msg1176676 date=1284802802]
Does anyone have a logical estimate of how much Liverpool Fc is actually worth?

Obviously not 800m. Obviously not 150m
[/quote]

There are numerous ways you can value you a club, so the estimates could be endless.

I think the price will be whatever the cost of paying back the debt to RBS and the Yanks is - depending on what estimates you're working off that's anywhere between 381m and 425m.

That would seem to me to be an obvious starting point.
 
Re: Merged Topics: Club Refinance Thread

Why would debts to the Trans Atlantic Shite (TAS) need to be paid?
 
Re: Merged Topics: Club Refinance Thread

[quote author=Wilko link=topic=41783.msg1176689#msg1176689 date=1284804891]
Why would debts to the Trans Atlantic Shite (TAS) need to be paid?


[/quote]

Because they're owed by the club to the holding company, so unless they're paid off they'll still be owed to the (old) parent company after a takeover of the club.
 
Re: Merged Topics: Club Refinance Thread

[quote author=Rosco link=topic=41783.msg1176685#msg1176685 date=1284804706]
[quote author=Terrier link=topic=41783.msg1176676#msg1176676 date=1284802802]
Does anyone have a logical estimate of how much Liverpool Fc is actually worth?

Obviously not 800m. Obviously not 150m
[/quote]

There are numerous ways you can value you a club, so the estimates could be endless.

I think the price will be whatever the cost of paying back the debt to RBS and the Yanks is - depending on what estimates you're working off that's anywhere between 381m and 425m.

That would seem to me to be an obvious starting point.
[/quote]

Right Ros, There are of course several ways to value any business but I cannot remember seeing any good studies to give a fair reflection.
 
Re: Merged Topics: Club Refinance Thread

I see. Does this put a dent in my hopes of hearing about them in the future pan handling at the top of Bold St?
 
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