Liverpool sack Rafa Benitez

[Halmeister]

[quote author=vikas link=topic=40455.msg1111775#msg1111775 date=1275527476]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=40455.msg1111758#msg1111758 date=1275527001]
Quick question:

What if Rafa says no to the 3M offer?
[/quote]

I think they would stump up more than the 3m if he declines, as they run the risk he doesn't act professionally going forward and lose them value on their investment.

Personally, if he goes, and it doesn't make a difference to their spending on the club, I hope Rafa rinses the btrds for every penny he can.
[/quote]

Why? I liked Benitez and wish him well, but if it's a case of him getting an extra £10 million or the new manager getting that money for new recruits then I know what I'd pick.

Some people in this thread seem to be Rafa fans over Liverpool fans.

*Edit - Sorry - just re-read your post. Didn't see the spending on the club bit. Apologies.

 

[Squiggles]

[quote author=Halmeister link=topic=40455.msg1111779#msg1111779 date=1275527714]
[quote author=vikas link=topic=40455.msg1111775#msg1111775 date=1275527476]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=40455.msg1111758#msg1111758 date=1275527001]
Quick question:

What if Rafa says no to the 3M offer?
[/quote]

I think they would stump up more than the 3m if he declines, as they run the risk he doesn't act professionally going forward and lose them value on their investment.

Personally, if he goes, and it doesn't make a difference to their spending on the club, I hope Rafa rinses the btrds for every penny he can.
[/quote]

Why? I liked Benitez and wish him well, but if it's a case of him getting an extra £10 million or the new manager getting that money for new recruits then I know what I'd pick.

Some people in this thread seem to be Rafa fans over Liverpool fans.
[/quote]

It's not that simple.

Would you say Tom and George are 'Liverpool'?

Your basic point is right though.

 

[KopKing]

[quote author=Halmeister link=topic=40455.msg1111770#msg1111770 date=1275527311]
[quote author=themn link=topic=40455.msg1111761#msg1111761 date=1275527052]
What are the chances of new owners, serious contenders, being entertained and nothing leaking ?

Apart from the Hong Kong gambling geezer, I've heard nowt.
[/quote]

Exactly.

Kopking, would you rather Benitez got his full whack compensation than the club saving the money?
[/quote]

I would rather Rafa got the compensation that a) he is owed b) he deserves and c) that he should get before the banks. Every penny we make is paid to pay interest that's why we are in profit over the last two years transfer windows, so your question is irrelevant.

I see where you were trying to go with this. Rafa deserves to be treated decently and in line with his contract and because we are poorly run and cash poor should not be an excuse to treat our most successful manger in 20 years in a shoddy manner. If we go to the wall over a measly £16m, it would go to show the desperate situation we were in.

 

[Mistadobalina]

[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=40455.msg1111760#msg1111760 date=1275527039]
[quote author=themn link=topic=40455.msg1111751#msg1111751 date=1275526778]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=40455.msg1111747#msg1111747 date=1275526673]
They'll be a new manager in place before the season starts.

If we go into the season with Dalglish in charge then we're no fucking different to the Newcastle fans with Keegan.

In fact: it's worse.


[/quote]

It would not be fucking worse.
[/quote]

It would from a footballing point of view, mate.

It would be over sentimental bollocks, and that's something we can ill-afford at the moment.
[/quote]

Well if theres one thing you cant accuse Liverpool fans of its over-sentimentallity.

...oh wait.

 

[Ryan]

[quote author=singlerider link=topic=40455.msg1111778#msg1111778 date=1275527613]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=40455.msg1111768#msg1111768 date=1275527279]
[quote author=singlerider link=topic=40455.msg1111766#msg1111766 date=1275527166]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=40455.msg1111758#msg1111758 date=1275527001]
Quick question:

What if Rafa says no to the 3M offer?
[/quote]

Then he's an adjective-adjective-noun.

Take the money and run
[/quote]

If your employer offered you less than 1/5th of what you were owed, what would you say?
[/quote]

If it was a case of stay in a job where I new I wasn't wanted by those above me and below me, I'd take the money now and have the rest later, but no way would I stay working in that kind of environment.

If I'm perfectly honest, I've never understood situations where people can be shit at their jobs, get the sack, and then walk out with a massive payoff. If I was shit at my job and got the sack, I'd be shown the door and that's it - maybe some gardening leave if I was lucky
[/quote]

That's not Rafa's fault or problem though mate. If someone gives you a new 4/5 year contract, then reneges on it a year later - tough shit.

 

[eecheerow]

Much as I'd love to read the entire thread, I haven't got the time at the moment, but from the couple of pages I've had the chance to read I'm honestly shocked that there aren't more posters made up over this news. Maybe it's a case of the devil you know versus the devil you don't, but Benitez had to go. Doom and gloom begone... I can't see any way we suffer through the type of insipid displays we were forced to endure this year. I could step into the manager's job tomorrow and get more out of our players than Benitez did. His time had come.

 

[Halmeister]

[quote author=KopKing link=topic=40455.msg1111781#msg1111781 date=1275527870]
[quote author=Halmeister link=topic=40455.msg1111770#msg1111770 date=1275527311]
[quote author=themn link=topic=40455.msg1111761#msg1111761 date=1275527052]
What are the chances of new owners, serious contenders, being entertained and nothing leaking ?

Apart from the Hong Kong gambling geezer, I've heard nowt.
[/quote]

Exactly.

Kopking, would you rather Benitez got his full whack compensation than the club saving the money?
[/quote]

I would rather Rafa got the compensation that a) he is owed b) he deserves and c) that he should get before the banks. Every penny we make is paid to pay interest that's why we are in profit over the last two years transfer windows, so your question is irrelevant.

I see where you were trying to go with this. Rafa deserves to be treated decently and in line with his contract and because we are poorly run and cash poor should not be an excuse to treat our most successful manger in 20 years in a shoddy manner. If we go to the wall over a measly £16m, it would go to show the desperate situation we were in.
[/quote]

Well it's all a means to an end. If there's £16 million going spare I'd rather it went to the club than some man who is no longer affiliated with the club. I'm a Liverpool fan and I'll put the clube before whatever Rafa deserves.

You're right about him being paid and treated decently, I'd just pick the priorities of the club first and foremost. If we can get away with paying him £3 million, or not a penny, I'd take it.

Squiggs, suppose so. But I don't care if Tom and George walk away with a billion each after selling our club, just as long as our club is better off. If they're doing well it means we are generally. I'd rather that was the case. I don't really care what happens to them after they sell the club. They're just the directors, there to sign the cheques and all that.

 

[Squiggles]

[quote author=eecheerow link=topic=40455.msg1111786#msg1111786 date=1275528257]
Much as I'd love to read the entire thread, I haven't got the time at the moment, but from the couple of pages I've had the chance to read I'm honestly shocked that there aren't more posters made up over this news. Maybe it's a case of the devil you know versus the devil you don't, but Benitez had to go. Doom and gloom begone... I can't see any way we suffer through the type of insipid displays we were forced to endure this year. I could step into the manager's job tomorrow and get more out of our players than Benitez did. His time had come.
[/quote]

You need to go a few pages back to see my pictures of rainbows and Obama.

 

[Ryan]

[quote author=eecheerow link=topic=40455.msg1111786#msg1111786 date=1275528257]
Much as I'd love to read the entire thread, I haven't got the time at the moment, but from the couple of pages I've had the chance to read I'm honestly shocked that there aren't more posters made up over this news. Maybe it's a case of the devil you know versus the devil you don't, but Benitez had to go. Doom and gloom begone... I can't see any way we suffer through the type of insipid displays we were forced to endure this year. I could step into the manager's job tomorrow and get more out of our players than Benitez did. His time had come.
[/quote]

Hehe, read the first 20 pages mate, you'll find what you're looking for there.

It's only been since I logged in that this thread's been Yoda'd out a bit more.

 

[Mistadobalina]

Howard Kendall...Sat in his car on Southport Beach...Drinking whiskey out the bottle...Crying.

I think ive changed my mind about wanting Kenny back cos when it goes wrong, sometimes it goes REALLY wrong.

 

[KopKing]

[quote author=Halmeister link=topic=40455.msg1111787#msg1111787 date=1275528258]
[quote author=KopKing link=topic=40455.msg1111781#msg1111781 date=1275527870]
[quote author=Halmeister link=topic=40455.msg1111770#msg1111770 date=1275527311]
[quote author=themn link=topic=40455.msg1111761#msg1111761 date=1275527052]
What are the chances of new owners, serious contenders, being entertained and nothing leaking ?

Apart from the Hong Kong gambling geezer, I've heard nowt.
[/quote]

Exactly.

Kopking, would you rather Benitez got his full whack compensation than the club saving the money?
[/quote]

I would rather Rafa got the compensation that a) he is owed b) he deserves and c) that he should get before the banks. Every penny we make is paid to pay interest that's why we are in profit over the last two years transfer windows, so your question is irrelevant.

I see where you were trying to go with this. Rafa deserves to be treated decently and in line with his contract and because we are poorly run and cash poor should not be an excuse to treat our most successful manger in 20 years in a shoddy manner. If we go to the wall over a measly £16m, it would go to show the desperate situation we were in.
[/quote]

Well it's all a means to an end. If there's £16 million going spare I'd rather it went to the club than some man who is no longer affiliated with the club. I'm a Liverpool fan and I'll put the clube before whatever Rafa deserves.

You're right about him being paid and treated decently, I'd just pick the priorities of the club first and foremost. If we can get away with paying him £3 million, or not a penny, I'd take it.

Squiggs, suppose so. But I don't care if Tom and George walk away with a billion each after selling our club, just as long as our club is better off. If they're doing well it means we are generally. I'd rather that was the case. I don't really care what happens to them after they sell the club. They're just the directors, there to sign the cheques and all that.
[/quote]

So you're suggesting that the club 'fiddle' him out of the money he is entitled to? H&G would love you. I'd rather a great servant of the club get money he is legitimately owed rather than the banks who are running the club, every fucking day of the week and twice on Sundays.

 

[singlerider]

[quote author=Ryan link=topic=40455.msg1111785#msg1111785 date=1275528165]
[quote author=singlerider link=topic=40455.msg1111778#msg1111778 date=1275527613]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=40455.msg1111768#msg1111768 date=1275527279]
[quote author=singlerider link=topic=40455.msg1111766#msg1111766 date=1275527166]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=40455.msg1111758#msg1111758 date=1275527001]
Quick question:

What if Rafa says no to the 3M offer?
[/quote]

Then he's an adjective-adjective-noun.

Take the money and run
[/quote]

If your employer offered you less than 1/5th of what you were owed, what would you say?
[/quote]

If it was a case of stay in a job where I new I wasn't wanted by those above me and below me, I'd take the money now and have the rest later, but no way would I stay working in that kind of environment.

If I'm perfectly honest, I've never understood situations where people can be shit at their jobs, get the sack, and then walk out with a massive payoff. If I was shit at my job and got the sack, I'd be shown the door and that's it - maybe some gardening leave if I was lucky
[/quote]

That's not Rafa's fault or problem though mate. If someone gives you a new 4/5 year contract, then reneges on it a year later - tough shit.
[/quote]

That's all well and good, but from a purely pragmatic point of view, unless you absolutely desperately needed the money (and let's face it, £3M is probably enough to tide him over for now) then surely it's better to get the fuck out and find something else rather than trying to prolong something that isn't gonna work over the principle of it.

Talk about cutting your nose off to spite your face

 

[Halmeister]

It's not fiddling him if he agrees to it. Say, for example if he holds his hands up, acknowledges he has done a shitty job recently, doesn't need the money and doesn't want to see the club he supposedly loves spend more millions it desperately needs.

We're fucked financially, we can't afford to throw money at people because we're sentimental. We've got to be prudent.

 

[KopKing]

[quote author=Halmeister link=topic=40455.msg1111795#msg1111795 date=1275528832]
It's not fiddling him if he agrees to it. Say, for example if he holds his hands up, acknowledges he has done a shitty job recently, doesn't need the money and doesn't want to see the club he supposedly loves spend more millions it desperately needs.

We're fucked financially, we can't afford to throw money at people because we're sentimental. We've got to be prudent.
[/quote]

But.....we're throwing money at the banks. £40 odd million last year, more next year.

 

[Halmeister]

[quote author=KopKing link=topic=40455.msg1111796#msg1111796 date=1275529057]
[quote author=Halmeister link=topic=40455.msg1111795#msg1111795 date=1275528832]
It's not fiddling him if he agrees to it. Say, for example if he holds his hands up, acknowledges he has done a shitty job recently, doesn't need the money and doesn't want to see the club he supposedly loves spend more millions it desperately needs.

We're fucked financially, we can't afford to throw money at people because we're sentimental. We've got to be prudent.
[/quote]

But.....we're throwing money at the banks. £40 odd million last year, more next year.
[/quote]

Yes and if we don't do that we're fucked. I know how we got to that point, so spare me the "damn Americans" argument. I'm just saying that if Benitez really does love the club, and knows how fucked we are financially, he'd be a good man to accept the £3 million without fighting for more.

Let's face it also, He'll get a job easily and get a signing on fee and massive wages anyway. He doesn't particularly need the money. We do.

 

[Mistadobalina]

Reports that Sammy Lee is to be appointed caretaker manager.

Your modern footballer is a shallow bastard, I fear Sammys too short and fat to command their respect...

He will have to grow some designer stubble and buy an ankle-length armani coat at least.

 

[Squiggles]

[quote author=Mistadobalina link=topic=40455.msg1111808#msg1111808 date=1275531343]
Reports that Sammy Lee is to be appointed caretaker manager.

Your modern footballer is a shallow bastard, I fear Sammys too short and fat to command their respect...

He will have to grow some designer stubble and buy an ankle-length armani coat at least.
[/quote]

Well, given his success at Bolton we're in safe hands lads.

Unsurprising really, Dalglish doesn't want the job, and for good reason.

 

[Dreambeliever]

Haven't read the thread but I am happy Rafa is leaving.

Thank you for the FA Cup and CL and some great great days and nights of football but we want the league and we will never get it under you.

Good luck in your next challenge.

 

[Ryan]

[quote author=singlerider link=topic=40455.msg1111793#msg1111793 date=1275528638]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=40455.msg1111785#msg1111785 date=1275528165]
[quote author=singlerider link=topic=40455.msg1111778#msg1111778 date=1275527613]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=40455.msg1111768#msg1111768 date=1275527279]
[quote author=singlerider link=topic=40455.msg1111766#msg1111766 date=1275527166]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=40455.msg1111758#msg1111758 date=1275527001]
Quick question:

What if Rafa says no to the 3M offer?
[/quote]

Then he's an adjective-adjective-noun.

Take the money and run
[/quote]

If your employer offered you less than 1/5th of what you were owed, what would you say?
[/quote]

If it was a case of stay in a job where I new I wasn't wanted by those above me and below me, I'd take the money now and have the rest later, but no way would I stay working in that kind of environment.

If I'm perfectly honest, I've never understood situations where people can be shit at their jobs, get the sack, and then walk out with a massive payoff. If I was shit at my job and got the sack, I'd be shown the door and that's it - maybe some gardening leave if I was lucky
[/quote]

That's not Rafa's fault or problem though mate. If someone gives you a new 4/5 year contract, then reneges on it a year later - tough shit.
[/quote]

That's all well and good, but from a purely pragmatic point of view, unless you absolutely desperately needed the money (and let's face it, £3M is probably enough to tide him over for now) then surely it's better to get the fuck out and find something else rather than trying to prolong something that isn't gonna work over the principle of it.

Talk about cutting your nose off to spite your face
[/quote]

Sorry Single but this is where we differ.

So he should be "pragmatic", and recognise that 3M's loads of money anyway?

FUCK. THAT.

"Hey Rafa, you know that 16M we owe you. Would 3M do instead?"

I know what I'd said to that anyway.

 

[Ryan]

Stolen from another Forum, made me laugh though...

I suppose now with that mismanaging player-hater Benitez gone, Torres, Gerrard, Benayoun and Reira will all sign 5 year contract extensions?

 

[localny]

If Rafa's gone, I just feel plain sad. It goes up there for me, with a few other sad moments in football..

Time for him to move perhaps, but he brought us to a higher plane and gave us many good days.

I don't care about last season, I'll always have a very soft spot for Rafa.

good luck in whatever you do boss...

 

[gareth_thomas]

Rafa obviously put a lot of effort into his last contract negotiation.

16 million is silly money and whoever agreed to Rafa having that kind of contract buy out is a turd. Surely his contract should have had KPI's... meeting a minimum of 4th place should be the minmum expectation for Rafa to receive such buy out.. This should then decline the further Rafa was away from meeting his declared target.

This sounds like the type of deal Ferguson would have.. not a manager that has had numerous question marks raised over his capability in winning the league.

When i heard Rafa had been offered this and is likely to be out of the club very soon i figured id be happy - i dont think i actually am..

Rafa while being a stubborn fucker he was at least still keeping the bastards honest... i worry that a Yes man will be hired and hello mid table mediocrity.

tough times.

 

[Y1]

I actually like Rafa. Too bad we had one sad & bad season.

YNWA and God Bless Rafa.

 

[Avmenon]

[quote author=KopKing link=topic=40455.msg1111781#msg1111781 date=1275527870]
[quote author=Halmeister link=topic=40455.msg1111770#msg1111770 date=1275527311]
[quote author=themn link=topic=40455.msg1111761#msg1111761 date=1275527052]
What are the chances of new owners, serious contenders, being entertained and nothing leaking ?

Apart from the Hong Kong gambling geezer, I've heard nowt.
[/quote]

Exactly.

Kopking, would you rather Benitez got his full whack compensation than the club saving the money?
[/quote]

I would rather Rafa got the compensation that a) he is owed b) he deserves and c) that he should get before the banks. Every penny we make is paid to pay interest that's why we are in profit over the last two years transfer windows, so your question is irrelevant.

I see where you were trying to go with this. Rafa deserves to be treated decently and in line with his contract and because we are poorly run and cash poor should not be an excuse to treat our most successful manger in 20 years in a shoddy manner. If we go to the wall over a measly £16m, it would go to show the desperate situation we were in.
[/quote]

Bearing in mind that Rafa bullied and badgered his way to that suer-duper contract and then proceeded to provide execrable service, I dont think its as simple as that.

27 pages of speculation.

Time I'll never regain.

If this is true, I shall not dance in the streets.

Rafa tried his best and wannt good enough.

He deserves a lot of gratitude for what he achieved, even if I personally feel he should go.

 

[Avmenon]

What thread did Bren get banned in tho?

 

[Ryan]

[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=40455.msg1111827#msg1111827 date=1275538108]
[quote author=KopKing link=topic=40455.msg1111781#msg1111781 date=1275527870]
[quote author=Halmeister link=topic=40455.msg1111770#msg1111770 date=1275527311]
[quote author=themn link=topic=40455.msg1111761#msg1111761 date=1275527052]
What are the chances of new owners, serious contenders, being entertained and nothing leaking ?

Apart from the Hong Kong gambling geezer, I've heard nowt.
[/quote]

Exactly.

Kopking, would you rather Benitez got his full whack compensation than the club saving the money?
[/quote]

I would rather Rafa got the compensation that a) he is owed b) he deserves and c) that he should get before the banks. Every penny we make is paid to pay interest that's why we are in profit over the last two years transfer windows, so your question is irrelevant.

I see where you were trying to go with this. Rafa deserves to be treated decently and in line with his contract and because we are poorly run and cash poor should not be an excuse to treat our most successful manger in 20 years in a shoddy manner. If we go to the wall over a measly £16m, it would go to show the desperate situation we were in.
[/quote]

Bearing in mind that Rafa bullied and badgered his way to that suer-duper contract and then proceeded to provide execrable service, I dont think its as simple as that.

[/quote]

"bullied and badgered"

You should write for The Lying Rag with that misguided hyperbole.

Even if he did "bully and badger" to get himself the contract he wanted, why shouldn't he? Do you expect him to bend over and accept whatever he's offered?

How do you think Ferguson and Mourinho do their contract negotiations?

 

[Avmenon]

I have no problems at all with the way in which he got the contract; which as you've correctly pointed out would be the exact same way as either Ferguson or Mourinho or any of the top managers.

My only issue is what happened after the contract was signed.

At the time many on here were extremely alarmed at the contract's terms because they were afraid of the likely consequences should the shit hit the fan.Some were of course overjoyed as they saw it as some vindication of Rafa's ability having 'come close' in 2009.There's no need to further elaborate how that transpired, and it was hardly prophetic considering Rafa's results after the 2006 FA Cup.

If that contract was signed say in 2006, and Rafa went on to win the CL in 2007 and the League in 2009 (in addition to the 2005 CL and 2006 FA Cup) he'd justifiably be regarded as one of Liverpool's great managers.

WHilst Kopking is right in that Rafa has every legal right to claim every penny owed, his pontificating about how Rafa should be treated wears a little thin.

As for it being hyperbole, is it really?

There were endless issues being raised as the type of power he wanted, which was almost carte blanche to do whatever he wanted. At the time, many wanted him to have total power etc...and these people said it wasnt fair to judge him until he had total freedom and only if he still failed despite having the power, only THEN would it be fair to sack him...'live by the sword' and all that..

Seems to me that's exactly what should happen.

PS : I cant find the thread Bren was banned in, what did he say exactly?

 

[RolandG]

I have no problem with Rafa being sacked after a dismal season. For all intents and purposes, its difficult to see any light at the end of a dark and long tunnel. I'm not sure if Rafa could actually turn us around using the same stale tactics.

Rafa himself should have done the honourable thing and resigned. I understand the principle about his contract and the payout. However, he should have been the bigger man and walked away without the dark cloud of compensation hanging over the club considering our financial position.

 

[Ryan]

[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=40455.msg1111831#msg1111831 date=1275542067]
I have no problems at all with the way in which he got the contract; which as you've correctly pointed out would be the exact same way as either Ferguson or Mourinho or any of the top managers.

My only issue is what happened after the contract was signed.

At the time many on here were extremely alarmed at the contract's terms because they were afraid of the likely consequences should the shit hit the fan.Some were of course overjoyed as they saw it as some vindication of Rafa's ability having 'come close' in 2009.There's no need to further elaborate how that transpired, and it was hardly prophetic considering Rafa's results after the 2006 FA Cup.

If that contract was signed say in 2006, and Rafa went on to win the CL in 2007 and the League in 2009 (in addition to the 2005 CL and 2006 FA Cup) he'd justifiably be regarded as one of Liverpool's great managers.

WHilst Kopking is right in that Rafa has every legal right to claim every penny owed, his pontificating about how Rafa should be treated wears a little thin.

As for it being hyperbole, is it really?

There were endless issues being raised as the type of power he wanted, which was almost carte blanche to do whatever he wanted. At the time, many wanted him to have total power etc...and these people said it wasnt fair to judge him until he had total freedom and only if he still failed despite having the power, only THEN would it be fair to sack him...'live by the sword' and all that..

Seems to me that's exactly what should happen.

PS : I cant find the thread Bren was banned in, what did he say exactly?
[/quote]

Fair enough mate, I just took umbrage with the "b & b" bit.

As for Bren - I've no idea, nor do I care. He adds nothing but negativity to the site anyway.

 

[jimmy]

If true and official it's a very sad day for LFC and for me as a fan.
I had high hopes of Rafa, and at stages it did look like he might just lead us to the holly grail. Unfortunately he couldn't.
There were so many ups and downs in his time here, and I prefer to remember the good things. He definitely did his best, and I supported him till the end.
I really hope the people up there know what they're doing and have some good replacement. if they do not, things may become even worse than they currently are. I really hope we do get someone better so maybe this will prove to be the right decision.

So, I'd reserve my farewell words for when it is official.