On what planet

[Mystic]

is Stones worth £50million? He's fucking garbage.

Okay, garbage is harsh, but he's horrendously overrated, just because he can pass the ball a little and has a bit of swagger, apparently he can be excused from awful decision making, poor concentration and positioning, and in general just being a bit of an average defender. Heh, I suppose that makes him perfect for a Guardiola team.

The market has gone absolutely mad, £50million for Stones almost makes Sterling look like a good deal.

Manchester City are in talks with Everton over the possible signing of England defender John Stones.
A deal is yet to be agreed but it is thought the two Premier League clubs are not far apart in their valuations.
It is thought City will pay about £50m to sign the 22-year-old former Barnsley player, who came close to joining Chelsea last summer.

Stones was part of the England squad at Euro 2016 but did not feature as they were knocked out in the last 16.
He made his debut for Barnsley in March 2012, 10 months before joining Everton for £3m.
City boss Pep Guardiola has identified the Yorkshireman as the kind of central defender who fits his approach to the game.
"Normally central defenders are strong in the air and aggressive," said Guardiola on Wednesday.
"But we need to have a good build-up to create easy passes in the midfield so they can create good passes for the strikers. I believe when the ball goes from the central defender to the striker as quickly as possible, it comes as quickly as possible back.
"That is why the players in that area need quality. By 31 August we will have the right squad to play how we want."
Guardiola used midfielders Javier Mascherano and Javi Martinez as central defenders while managing Barcelona and Bayern Munich respectively.
And the Spaniard has identified a City midfielder who could step into the back four if required.
"Fernandinho can play in 10 positions," he said.
"He is quick, fast, intelligent, aggressive. He is strong in the air and has the quality to play good build-up, can go right or left and can pass long."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36905593

 

[mark1975]

He was found out when Everton sorely missed Jagielka for large parts of last season, he was all over the place. The media excused him as being distracted by Chelsea, the fans blasted him as clearly wanting out.

Let them buy him, I couldn't give a fuck. He'll probably be another on the long production line of players who go for a hefty price, think they've already made it and end up sitting on the bench during their peak years before seeing out their career at a mid to low table club. Another massive waste, ahh well.

 

[LeTallecWiz]

It will be interesting to see if Pep can coach him into a better defender ... A very poor man's version of Pique?

 

[Hansern]

50 mill is insane. He's worth 20-25 mill.

 

[Mersey86]

is Stones worth £50million? just because he can pass the ball a little and has a bit of swagger

Sakho's worth 70 million in that case.

 

[Squiggles]

I played against him when he was 16. I hungover, bordering on still pissed and scored 2 goals. That says it all.

He's not all that, and they could find someone as good for half the price. It will be a minimal improvement for City, but the concern is what it does to Everton. They've taken the Leicester scout and now with Koeman there they could put that money to good use.

They even may join our 'fighting for Europa league place' club.

 

[LarryHagman]

To be fair, 50M is about right, after all they paid 49M for Sterling.

 

[jimmy]

I played against him when he was 16. I hungover, bordering on still pissed and scored 2 goals. That says it all.

He's not all that, and they could find someone as good for half the price. It will be a minimal improvement for City, but the concern is what it does to Everton. They've taken the Leicester scout and now with Koeman there they could put that money to good use.

They even may join our 'fighting for Europa league place' club.

Let's sign Squiggles then! [emoji6]

 

[ChastenedMUFC]

Transfer fees have gone nuts, but they are going nuts in line with the money clubs are pulling in

 

[keniget]

The problem City have is that they have nobody to step up when Kompany out. A couple have been able to form great partnerships with him but it's clear its Kompany that's the decisive factor. They must surely be hoping Stones can step up where the others couldn't.

 

[Mystic]

The problem City have is that they have nobody to step up when Kompany out. A couple have been able to form great partnerships with him but it's clear its Kompany that's the decisive factor. They must surely be hoping Stones can step up where the others couldn't.

Why on earth would they think that though, I've never seen Stones showing any sign that he could be the player to step up and lead a line, in fact the complete opposite I'd say, he needs a leader next to him. If he's to have any chance to succeed at City he'd need Kompany to guide him, and that defeats the point really, heck if that's what they want, Smalling would be much more fitting, although a transfer that couldn't happen I suppose.

 

[Rosco]

Defenders who look good on the ball are routinely overvalued.

I can see where the thinking comes from - particularly at the moment where a lot of teams like to press defenders into mistakes on the ball.

But does a defender spend more than 2% of the 90 minutes on the ball ? I'm more interested in the other 98% - and thats much harder to judge

 

[Whirly]

Defenders who look good on the ball are routinely overvalued.

I can see where the thinking comes from - particularly at the moment where a lot of teams like to press defenders into mistakes on the ball.

But does a defender spend more than 2% of the 90 minutes on the ball ? I'm more interested in the other 98% - and thats much harder to judge

I don't think any player spends 2% of the game on the ball, except maybe a select few midfielders on their day.

 

[Rosco]

I don't think any player spends 2% of the game on the ball, except maybe a select few midfielders on their day.

I was going to say 1% but i knew some prick would come up with one example from 40 years ago where a defender had the ball for 1.2% of a game - thus in their mind completely invalidating all that i said

 

[Mors]

I wonder how much he'd be if he was Albanian. He's not even a 10mill defender for me. He looked shite last season. English tax.

 

[rurikbird]

Defenders who look good on the ball are routinely overvalued.

Sakho should be undervalued then.

 

[hmmmmm1]

25 - 30 million is now the bang average price these days and then add in the English Premium.

He is young enough to improve, great potential.

 

[manwithnoname]

Defenders who look good on the ball are routinely overvalued.

I can see where the thinking comes from - particularly at the moment where a lot of teams like to press defenders into mistakes on the ball.

But does a defender spend more than 2% of the 90 minutes on the ball ? I'm more interested in the other 98% - and thats much harder to judge

I'm always a little sceptical about that description anyway. Looking "good" on the ball means what? Like Agger, he will sometimes bring the ball out of defence and occasionally cross the halfway line? He can change direction and swerve past a player? "Starts attacks"? (whatever that means in reality)

My all-time favourite player is Alan Hansen, so I do get it, but it seems a little bit overstatated, because Alan Hansen's first job was being a good defender and stopping attackers scoring, and he did that brilliantly. If he didn't, there's no fucking point.

Do they all have to be that slightly willowy build to be "ball playing defenders"? Because John Terry is brilliant with the ball. Is he one?

 

[Rosco]

My all-time favourite player is Alan Hansen, so I do get it, but it seems a little bit overstatated, because Alan Hansen's first job was being a good defender and stopping attackers scoring, and he did that brilliantly. If he didn't, there's no fucking point.

I've cut down the post a bit - because I agree with that bit above entirely.

'Looking good on the ball' - i suppose in my mind the big thing is being able go dribble well, but also pass. But there's a way they look when going about it.

Agger v Skrtel is probably a good illustration - we all know Agger looks better on the ball but in reality Skrtel was at least his equal when it came to passing. But if there was a public vote about it i'd bet Agger would always be considered the better passer.

Moreno is the classic example in my head. Pacey, can dribble and shoot. Can't defend for toffee. 12m.

But the bigger problem is that scouting defensive ability is a long painstaking process - its easy to spot athleticism, not so easy to spot someone who knows how to defend. Out and out defenders are probably an undervalued commodity.

Fontes at Southampton springs to mind - largely unheralded but has been at the centre of a lot of good defences. Ragnar may well be another

 

[manwithnoname]

I've cut down the post a bit - because I agree with that bit above entirely.

'Looking good on the ball' - i suppose in my mind the big thing is being able go dribble well, but also pass. But there's a way they look when going about it.

Agger v Skrtel is probably a good illustration - we all know Agger looks better on the ball but in reality Skrtel was at least his equal when it came to passing. But if there was a public vote about it i'd bet Agger would always be considered the better passer.

Moreno is the classic example in my head. Pacey, can dribble and shoot. Can't defend for toffee. 12m.

But the bigger problem is that scouting defensive ability is a long painstaking process - its easy to spot athleticism, not so easy to spot someone who knows how to defend. Out and out defenders are probably an undervalued commodity.

Fontes at Southampton springs to mind - largely unheralded but has been at the centre of a lot of good defences. Ragnar may well be another

And also it's pretty important to have the right partnership. Hansen was paired with Lawrenson, who was one of the fastest defenders around and a brilliant tackler; neeither of which was exactly Jocky's strong suit. And Terry's lack of pace was mitigated by Carvalho etc.

Mind you, allow me to contradict myself, because not all CB partnerships need that blend: Hyypia/ Henchoz and last season's Leicester pairing were examples of pretty similar skillsets.

Main point is: knowing how to defend is more important than anything else. Look at every single truly great Liverpool defender: Lawro, Jocky, Carra, Hyypia, Smith, Nicol, Thompson, Yeats, Neal, Hughes....all brilliant at defending first.

You can tell almost everything you need to know about anyone's football knowledge by their appreciation and opinion of defenders.

 

[Mors]

Footballs changed though lads, I think these modern coaches think that you don't need your defenders to defend at all if all your football is played in your opponents half ala Barcelona. Although it doesn't actually work out like that.

 

[Judge Jules]

Rumour has it that Citeh have offered £50 mill.and Raheem Sterling for John Stones. Everton are holding out for just the £50 mill.

 

[Rosco]

I'd go further than saying you need the right partnership - you need the right balance across the back four also.

But again we're in agreement, they all need to be able to defend before anything else

 

[Hansern]

I played against him when he was 16. I hungover, bordering on still pissed and scored 2 goals. That says it all.

He's not all that, and they could find someone as good for half the price. It will be a minimal improvement for City, but the concern is what it does to Everton. They've taken the Leicester scout and now with Koeman there they could put that money to good use.

They even may join our 'fighting for Europa league place' club.

Everton struggle to sign anyone at the moment though. That 50 mill wont do them more good.

Its very Everton to become "rich" now when the whole league is loaded.

 

[Insignificance]

He is 50 million better than Demichaelis.... Insane price anyway!

 

[Arn]

It is key to have at least one central defender that is good on the ball. If you don't have that then you will almost always be up against a parked bus when you attack.

Barcelona would not be able to play their style of play if they didn't have good on the ball type defenders. It is also key to have that to get out of a tight defensive situation. Instead of a throw in to the opposition or a panic long ball you will be able to keep the ball by making a pass to the central defender that is good on the ball.

It is also a team game. If you have players that is good on the ball then you will be able to speed up the attacks. One two touches instead of three four. Makes a big difference.

To be able to press the opposition all over the pitch you must have players that is good on the ball. That includes the central defenders. What happens if you don't have that? Well, you won't be able to make the quick break and it is a big risk that you will lose the ball almost straight away.

 

[Arn]

Agger and Hyypiä was fantastic in defensive tight situations because they could control the ball using very few touches.

 

[binomial]

British and Plays for a prem club - 50m