Cos they're fucking shit
Patience
- Thread starter rurikbird
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Cos they're fucking shit
Yeah but they're worse and we're at Anfield
This season was always going to be super tough.
Plenty of time to settle in the players and the league was always going to be a tall ask with so much change of personal and playing style to accomodate them.
Plenty of time to settle in the players and the league was always going to be a tall ask with so much change of personal and playing style to accomodate them.
Wirtz and Frimpong were total shit again today. Im calling it early - Wirtz doesnt have what it takes to succeed in this league. He looks lost, lightweight, and lethargic. I dont care that he's young and needs "time to adjust". We have just bought a midfielder shitter than Curtis Jones for 110m quid. And I'm not being hysterical or reactionary (before Mark comes in with his favorite name calling) - I'm only saying this because I'm saving you all the exhaustion of investing emotionally in this kid. The data nerds got this one wrong - he's bollocks.
He’s a Rolls Royce of a player.
Expensive, looks flashy, has others wishing they had one but in reality they are extremely unpractical and cause you more headaches than its worth. We have (had?) a system where a Toyota off road is needed, not an expensive show piece.
We had a system where Elliott couldn’t work and went out and bought a German Elliott without the output.
Expensive, looks flashy, has others wishing they had one but in reality they are extremely unpractical and cause you more headaches than its worth. We have (had?) a system where a Toyota off road is needed, not an expensive show piece.
We had a system where Elliott couldn’t work and went out and bought a German Elliott without the output.
Then there’s the other signings.
Frimpong, a wing back where we don’t play with wing backs. Coupled with Wirtz, are they great system players rather than great players? Not an upgrade on Trent and I was sick of that prick by the time he left.
Kerkez has started to show glimpses why he’s an upgrade on Tsimikas.
Isak & Ekitike have replaced Nunez. Two players, same thing, £210 million.
Jota not replaced.
Diaz - replaced with Ngumoha who is a kid and needs to be managed.
Leoni - looked class on his debut, now dead. Can’t say any more that’s just bad luck.
What did we really need? A DM to replace Endo. Someone Slot would play meaning Gravy can push forward when Mac is off it. A RW to replace Mo when Mo is playing like he is now. Someone who wasn’t Nunez (and we got 2!). A 23 year old version of Jota. A young LB, which we’ve done. Another CB because having Gomez is a waste of everyone’s time and if Konate is not signing a new contract he needed binning. An actual right back to work with Bradley.
It’s not a case of patience, we’ve not addressed what were the biggest issues and spunked a load of money on players we didn’t need.
Frimpong, a wing back where we don’t play with wing backs. Coupled with Wirtz, are they great system players rather than great players? Not an upgrade on Trent and I was sick of that prick by the time he left.
Kerkez has started to show glimpses why he’s an upgrade on Tsimikas.
Isak & Ekitike have replaced Nunez. Two players, same thing, £210 million.
Jota not replaced.
Diaz - replaced with Ngumoha who is a kid and needs to be managed.
Leoni - looked class on his debut, now dead. Can’t say any more that’s just bad luck.
What did we really need? A DM to replace Endo. Someone Slot would play meaning Gravy can push forward when Mac is off it. A RW to replace Mo when Mo is playing like he is now. Someone who wasn’t Nunez (and we got 2!). A 23 year old version of Jota. A young LB, which we’ve done. Another CB because having Gomez is a waste of everyone’s time and if Konate is not signing a new contract he needed binning. An actual right back to work with Bradley.
It’s not a case of patience, we’ve not addressed what were the biggest issues and spunked a load of money on players we didn’t need.
Damn that might be a draw then
Wirtz has been fucking shit. If we had thrown Elliott or Jones in whatever role Wirtz has been doing, and they were turning in these performances, then the forum would be out for blood and bemoaning Slot for fucking up a winning formula, and that would have cost us fuck all. The idea that Wirtz was so good he was worth changing a title-winning formula for, but he's playing like Luis Garcia, minus all the joy, goals, special moments, and tricks. Those infuriating days where it wasn't clicking for him, but nobody really cared because he cost fuck all and he had all the credit in the bank. As it stands, we cannot keep indulging such carelessness in possession, inability to hold up the ball or low attacking output. He's failing on all the key metrics, and whilst he's not fully responsible, he has to be part of the reason why we're so god damn exposed all the time. We also need all areas of the team to improve to maintain possession and structure better for a 10 to thrive, but that doesn't excuse the ineffectiveness of the performances to date. I do maintain he's a very gifted and talented footballer, who can make it here, but things have got to improve sharpish if he's to stay in the side.
If Virg picks up an injury, we’re cooked. Arsenal will walk away with it.
I'd go even further and say any of the CB's. We are far too comfortable considering Robbo/Endo as a fourth choice CB and, 5 games a year, Joe Gomez as the first replacement.
I'll reiterate what I've said earlier today - a lot of this isn't on the new players (yes they can make sure their passes go to feet but they may be trying too hard to make something special work). I can't help but feel, watching the matches, that the key issue is that last season's backbone is a non-entity with ridiculously poor performances (regardless of fitness) from : Salah, Macca, Jones, Gakpo and worst of all Konate. They look nothing like the players of last season.
How difficult is it for new players to integrate and excel when all around them world class players aren't even playing to a Championship level (effort)? When their runs are ignored, when passes don't reach them, when moves break down because players are off doing their own thing (Gakpo) or can't even control the ball (Salah and Konate) or are having countless brainfarts (Konate) or just lumping long ball after long ball upfield (Konate again). Is this a confidence thing? Fitness? Emotional lows (inc. Diogo) after last season's highs ?
Until these players start to show last season's form it's going to be very hard, nigh on impossible, for the new players to integrate and show their true form/worth. In the meantime it seems most blame is being cast in the direction of the newbies. That's a misdirect IMO.
How difficult is it for new players to integrate and excel when all around them world class players aren't even playing to a Championship level (effort)? When their runs are ignored, when passes don't reach them, when moves break down because players are off doing their own thing (Gakpo) or can't even control the ball (Salah and Konate) or are having countless brainfarts (Konate) or just lumping long ball after long ball upfield (Konate again). Is this a confidence thing? Fitness? Emotional lows (inc. Diogo) after last season's highs ?
Until these players start to show last season's form it's going to be very hard, nigh on impossible, for the new players to integrate and show their true form/worth. In the meantime it seems most blame is being cast in the direction of the newbies. That's a misdirect IMO.
Maybe it's the Manager just trying to figure things out, too.
Oh and I think Chiesa has the bit of Jota about him. Natural finisher. Doesn't need too many chances to score.
Isak and Eketike are HUGE upgrades on the donkey, but Isak not fit yet.
We'll get there. We just have a few internal obstacles to navigate,
Oh and I think Chiesa has the bit of Jota about him. Natural finisher. Doesn't need too many chances to score.
Isak and Eketike are HUGE upgrades on the donkey, but Isak not fit yet.
We'll get there. We just have a few internal obstacles to navigate,
Chiesa as Jota (but from the wing). I can get behind that. Clutch, hard-working and determined, prone to injury and needing management.
Strangely, this thread has not got much love in a week.
Can we give our league winning manager a little patience to work through the process?
By giving this patience, we make a chance of success more likely.
Older players not delivering is combining with newer signings not bedding in
We're in the CL, we are league winners, it's a great place to be getting problems.
Let's take the long view. He wants to win too.
He doesn't have Jurgen's ability to generate the man love, so I am curious to see how we turn it around.
Let's not knee jerk more than a little.
Can we give our league winning manager a little patience to work through the process?
By giving this patience, we make a chance of success more likely.
Older players not delivering is combining with newer signings not bedding in
We're in the CL, we are league winners, it's a great place to be getting problems.
Let's take the long view. He wants to win too.
He doesn't have Jurgen's ability to generate the man love, so I am curious to see how we turn it around.
Let's not knee jerk more than a little.
You're joking right?
I might not be in the right state of mind atm, cause I'm still pissed off about yesterday.
Chiesa might not be our saviour but, he deserved to be given a chance yesterday. Klopp would have played him, Benitez would have, fuck even Houllier would have brought him on.
So until that...douche
TBH the name calling of the manager and some of the players has got really poisenous and uncalled for. I'm sure wasn't this bad during Rogers or Budgie's rain despite the nick names. Just seems like a general mood in current world trickling down. Apologizing in advance for anyone I called a during the match threads thouhgh...
It hasn't been limited to just Slot though.
Isn’t this the opposite of a purple patch?
I’ve been chatting with my boi Brizzle about this. I don’t think it’s about patience. It’s about pragmatism. We need things to work. So far this season we could make a case for winning every game despite looking poor. We haven’t been battered. Then again, we’ve not battered anyone either. Every game has been on that knife edge.
Slot needs to find that system that works with who he has at his disposal. Then build from that. Do we adjust to get Wirtz in the team? Do we drop out Salah for a right side of Bradley and Frimpong (I think this could be lethal!)?
Just as long as we have a plan. Even using every squady possible in the league cup. Get Endo and badger CB and Nyoni DCM.
Do whatever it takes to get results now and feed into future performances.
Slot needs to find that system that works with who he has at his disposal. Then build from that. Do we adjust to get Wirtz in the team? Do we drop out Salah for a right side of Bradley and Frimpong (I think this could be lethal!)?
Just as long as we have a plan. Even using every squady possible in the league cup. Get Endo and badger CB and Nyoni DCM.
Do whatever it takes to get results now and feed into future performances.
ah - at last someone has addressed the points. I agree with that last point ... mostly.
The players we did not need were Wirtz, and Frimpong, but at the same time I did not want to lose Diaz who I think was capable of covering all front positions and proved to be effective down the middle for us.
Wirtz - I get that we were trying to replace the so called 'creativity' of Trent, but seriously - how important was Trent to us last season ?
Frimpong - he is so light-weight and did not play as a traditional RB at his former club, and never a starter in that position over that guy at Inter Milan for his national team.
kerkez, Ekitike/Isak - I get why we needed them, and also Leoni (after selling Q).
But our other priorities in place of Wirtz should have been a 6/8, defender, and someone as athletic as Frimpong, but more physical. I think it would have been possible to get all three positions covered for the price of Wirtz+Frimpong.
I know people keep saying that Slot don't want a traditional 6, but he should of opted for a Baleba/Wharton/Ederson type to supplement his midfield rather than going for a creative 10 pussy and 10's are nearly always pussies.
The worrying thing is, managers who dont like playing a traditional DM at 6 never really succeed do they. There's a reason why Pep, Klopp, Ancelotti, Mourinho etc always made sure they had quality, natural DM in this position.
It was a massive blind spot of Rogers - refusing to ever invest in one. When Klopp finally bought Fabinho, it propelled us to start winning trophies and made us a far better team. When Fabinho's legs went and we tried to play MacAllister there we fell off badly.
Grav is great, but he's much more of a Vieira type number 8 than a 6.
The lack of a quality, natural 6 is by far the biggest reason we look disjointed and more like a pinball machine than a football team.
It was a massive blind spot of Rogers - refusing to ever invest in one. When Klopp finally bought Fabinho, it propelled us to start winning trophies and made us a far better team. When Fabinho's legs went and we tried to play MacAllister there we fell off badly.
Grav is great, but he's much more of a Vieira type number 8 than a 6.
The lack of a quality, natural 6 is by far the biggest reason we look disjointed and more like a pinball machine than a football team.
That is a major positive TBH. If we are still getting results and winning the xG battle then oce things start to gel the results will come. Once can only hope it doesn't take so long that it rules us out of the title chase.
Interesting but I'd try out this tactic in a match Salah is stinking up rather than not starting him at all. Say after 60 mins?
Agree for the LC
Hmm to a degree I can't agree with this. Players won't integrate from the bench. They have to be played. The key is solving the onfield issues we have now by dropping those players clearly out of form/fitness. Unless that's what you meant.
I dont know, I think Gravy is a great DM, but right now, I still feel like we could do with another one because that would allow him to help us drive the ball forward.
Most importantly, it'll allow him some rest.
Wait who am I kidding, Slot is going to run him into the ground.
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