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Patience

I dont know, I think Gravy is a great DM, but right now, I still feel like we could do with another one because that would allow him to help us drive the ball forward.

Most importantly, it'll allow him some rest.
Wait who am I kidding, Slot is going to run him into the ground.
I think Macca's form/lack of fitness is a massive problem at the moment. We're missing his passing, ability to defend spaces and control of the ball. Theoretically he should allow Gravenberch to move forward with the ball but he's massively out of sorts.
 
We've had 2 full backs for the past 7 years who have shared the creative load with the MFs, in fact probably surpassed them in terms of chances created, link-up play etc. There's been little-to-no pressure on our MFs to force the game. Maybe last year, that started to wane and a lot of fans seemingly couldn't wait to see them kicked out of the team. That's worked out well. Frimpong isn't a Prem League standard FB and Bradley is decent at best. Kerkez looks OK but we need to hope he's going to kick-on massively because what he's doing now isn't good enough. There's pressure on the MF now and, they don't look up to it to me, not consistently anyway.

Wasn't one of the Slot plus-points, particularly over Amorim, that we got him because his preferred formation suited our players better? And now we're talking about having to change the formation to suit the players we've just signed? Who sanctioned the signings of Frimpong and Wirtz then? Doesn't make sense. Why 2 strikers that look exactly the same?

The two forward players will come good I think. The rest, not sure. For the reigning League Champs to spend £450M, a transfer window record, and be this disorganised, lacking a clear plan and just downright poor, is some achievement really. We look like we have major issues at RB, CB, LW, RW and CM all of a sudden. How the hell has that happened?

Realistically, 2 or 3 games aside, we've been crap since Plymouth skittled us.
 
The worrying thing is, managers who dont like playing a traditional DM at 6 never really succeed do they. There's a reason why Pep, Klopp, Ancelotti, Mourinho etc always made sure they had quality, natural DM in this position.

It was a massive blind spot of Rogers - refusing to ever invest in one. When Klopp finally bought Fabinho, it propelled us to start winning trophies and made us a far better team. When Fabinho's legs went and we tried to play MacAllister there we fell off badly.

Grav is great, but he's much more of a Vieira type number 8 than a 6.

The lack of a quality, natural 6 is by far the biggest reason we look disjointed and more like a pinball machine than a football team.
What?! The best 6 in the PL last season isn't really a 6? I think you're getting confused with his versatility and ability to play both 6 and 8.
 
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I think Macca's form/lack of fitness is a massive problem at the moment. We're missing his passing, ability to defend spaces and control of the ball. Theoretically he should allow Gravenberch to move forward with the ball but he's massively out of sorts.
Agreed. I don’t think we can allow Grav to move forward until Macca is fit. Then even, I am not sure we have enough protection for the defence.
Maybe rather unleash Kerkez/Frimp than Grav centrally?
Would love to hear what Slots plan is.
 
Agreed. I don’t think we can allow Grav to move forward until Macca is fit. Then even, I am not sure we have enough protection for the defence.
Maybe rather unleash Kerkez/Frimp than Grav centrally?
Would love to hear what Slots plan is.
I think the plan is to get Macca fit as soon as he can, and I think Gravy moving forward is part of how he's trying to get this 'new' system to work. Gravenberch having more freedom theoretically takes some of the pressure off Wirtz to create, and gives him more options, as well as making us less predictable, but we're a long way off it working.

Longer term I think the Wharton rumours probably have a basis of truth. We don't have a consistent enough alternative to Macca at the moment. Tyler Morton was probably the closest, though I haven't seen enough of McConnell. Medium term I hope Bajcetic comes in as an option.
 
I’ve been chatting with my boi Brizzle about this. I don’t think it’s about patience. It’s about pragmatism. We need things to work. So far this season we could make a case for winning every game despite looking poor. We haven’t been battered. Then again, we’ve not battered anyone either. Every game has been on that knife edge.

Slot needs to find that system that works with who he has at his disposal. Then build from that. Do we adjust to get Wirtz in the team? Do we drop out Salah for a right side of Bradley and Frimpong (I think this could be lethal!)?

Just as long as we have a plan. Even using every squady possible in the league cup. Get Endo and badger CB and Nyoni DCM.

Do whatever it takes to get results now and feed into future performances.
I agree with much of this, but I don't really agree that we haven't been battered. We were on the ropes against many of the teams we've faced for large spells of each game, that's a worry. I agree with the general point though about the margins, it's about getting the balance right.

My worry is we don't really have the personnel to do so, and what players who we do have who are more suited to balancing the side, Slot will barely use. Which is on him, it's a completely stubborn flaw. Sometimes you have to use your squad to the greater good, unfortunately it just feels like Slot wants to get as many star names and personal favourites on the team sheet, regardless of form or how much it tips the us over the edge.
 
What?! The best 6 in the PL last season isn't really a 6? I think you're getting confused with his versatility and ability to play both 6 and 8.
Fair enough.

But . . . in the 4-2-3-1 we're playing, where essentially we have wide forwards on the wings instead of wingers, it becomes all the more important that the "2" in the 4-2-3-1 are great defensively. Ideally another DM in there next to Grav would be the solution. Or even better, a 4-3-3 with a DM central and Grav & Macca either side of him.

Bajcetic anyone?
 
I think the plan is to get Macca fit as soon as he can, and I think Gravy moving forward is part of how he's trying to get this 'new' system to work. Gravenberch having more freedom theoretically takes some of the pressure off Wirtz to create, and gives him more options, as well as making us less predictable, but we're a long way off it working.

Longer term I think the Wharton rumours probably have a basis of truth. We don't have a consistent enough alternative to Macca at the moment. Tyler Morton was probably the closest, though I haven't seen enough of McConnell. Medium term I hope Bajcetic comes in as an option.
Where does this leave Szoboszlai?
Will we play with two 8’s and one who sits?
I thought 4231 was the new approach, but maybe not?
 
Where does this leave Szoboszlai?
Will we play with two 8’s and one who sits?
I thought 4231 was the new approach, but maybe not?
The only way two 8's works is with a DM behind them. Like Klopp's 4-3-3.

My ideal plan would be to have a proper DM in, and go back to a 4-3-3. Then have Gravenberch, Macca and Szobo fight it out for the two number 8 positions.
 
The only way two 8's works is with a DM behind them. Like Klopp's 4-3-3.

My ideal plan would be to have a proper DM in, and go back to a 4-3-3. Then have Gravenberch, Macca and Szobo fight it out for the two number 8 positions.
Leaving Wirtz operating from the left?
 
Where does this leave Szoboszlai?
Will we play with two 8’s and one who sits?
I thought 4231 was the new approach, but maybe not?
I don't know. Maybe if the wheels turn a bit better and everyone is on form we'll keep possession better higher up the pitch and not need both 6s to be as defensive. Szobo I suspect will end up being a utility player.
 
What do you guys think about the fullbacks? We bought two who are best when attacking down the flanks, but are so far used in more reserved roles
 
I agree with much of this, but I don't really agree that we haven't been battered. We were on the ropes against many of the teams we've faced for large spells of each game, that's a worry. I agree with the general point though about the margins, it's about getting the balance right.

My worry is we don't really have the personnel to do so, and what players who we do have who are more suited to balancing the side, Slot will barely use. Which is on him, it's a completely stubborn flaw. Sometimes you have to use your squad to the greater good, unfortunately it just feels like Slot wants to get as many star names and personal favourites on the team sheet, regardless of form or how much it tips the us over the edge.
I’d say get battered is what PSG did to us in the away leg. Palace had a great 25 minute spell at the start then we had a lot of the ball thereafter until the final 10. Arsenal didn’t batter us, and against both Everton and Atletico we had great 40 minutes from the off then conceded too much possession. In all of those games you are right, the opposition had spells but not what I would call battered.
 
So if we had to list all the problems that need to get fixed.

Defence
1. None of new full backs performing at expected levels.
2. Trent's creativity has not been replaced.
3. Konate off form

Midfield
4. Macca not fit, playing poorly, being missed.
5. Wirtz not gelling, still getting to know his team mates, possibly ill suited to PL

Attack
6. Cody Gakpo underwhelming
7. Isak not fit
8. Salah's defensive game costing us games / lost his winning contributions.
9. Diaz runs have not been replaced as an outlet.

Management
10. Manager not playing in form players.
11. System no longer working.
12. Too many players losing duels
13. Confidence being sapped.
14. Manager not a man manager?
15. Too many players out of position.
16. Too many new players signed in one window, adjusting to system.
17. New coaches a problem?
18. Lots of internal player partnerships not gelling. (Example, Kerkez/Gakpo)

Supporters
19. Too many fans going into meltdown.

Anything else?
 
Good things

Games and players

- Not major defeats, some unlucky.
- All three defeats on the road, not at home.
- Second in league despite poor form
- Unfit players will improve after break
- Ekiteke looks good
- Marma looks good.
- Good bench, If used. Chiesa, Rio, Ekiteke will step in
- New signings, that are underperforming are PL proven, and will probably improve (Kerkez, Isak)
- Strong characters means high probability of turning it around.

Management
- Manager is highly analytical, problem solver type.
- These moments, if navigated well, can strengthen a team
- We just won the league
- Great club management despite it all.
- Club in the CL.
- International break reset.
 
And Modo thinks he's a Ibiza partying, associating with Gary Lineker’s cokehead brother, "Right Said Fred" looking douche.
 
Someone asked the question a few weeks back about how long it'd take a manager to lose favour, I figured it would take half a year at least, but I wonder if we're finding out the answer for real.
 
Live footage of posts on SCM this AM.

Logic.png
 
Someone asked the question a few weeks back about how long it'd take a manager to lose favour, I figured it would take half a year at least, but I wonder if we're finding out the answer for real.
As a supporter base it could be 3 months.
 
Someone asked the question a few weeks back about how long it'd take a manager to lose favour, I figured it would take half a year at least, but I wonder if we're finding out the answer for real.

Well, one can't be sure, but I'm hoping the lunatic fringe on here isn't actually representative of the broad majority of Liverpool fans.

Wouldn't directly disagree with Momo though. If we haven't shown some solid improvement by New Year, wider discontent may start to build.
 
Forest fans are already calling for Ange to be sacked after 7 weeks.
Rangers fans were calling for Martin for months before he finally got the chop last weekend, he only got the job in the summer. Don't give the fans reasons to lose patience, because they can lose it instantly.

But sure Arne has credit, he walked the league and all that shit so he gets all the time in the world to get it right, whatever. I'm going to call this man out for his shit, boring brand of football any chance I get because I'm fed up watching the same negative, passive shit and persisting with the same old bollocks.

Our football is getting progressively worse and it's been a reoccurring trend since fucking Feb, with the players we have we ought to be playing some of the best football Europe has to offer....instead we're a footnote and the players look clueless under this man. We've blown away one team in the last 9 months and that was against Ange's Spurs ffs.

There's no excuses that can be made here, we have very minimal injuries....besides Isak everyone's had a full pre-season, it's October so there's no fatigue or fixture congestion, refs haven't denied us.

We're unidentifiable. No press, no control, no possession, no counters, very few chances.
 
Yea that is the biggest concern for me - that over time we seem to be getting worse and less coherent.

In Klopp's first 2-3 years, we weren't always setting the world on fire, but it was plain to see to everyone that we were getting better and better, and had a crystal clear identity that seemed entrenched in every player and the collective group.
 
I don't often disagree with you but that post is an exception. "Over time"? We walked the league last year so you can only be referring to this season, which isn't even a quarter of the way through yet.

As for the Klopp comparison, under him we started from a pretty low base. Slot has a very different job to do.
 
I don't often disagree with you but that post is an exception. "Over time"? We walked the league last year so you can only be referring to this season, which isn't even a quarter of the way through yet.

As for the Klopp comparison, under him we started from a pretty low base. Slot has a very different job to do.
I thought the quality of our play definitely declined towards the end of last season. Whether that was us taking our foot off or not, I'm not sure.

On the Klopp point - yea, that is true.

I guess if I'm trying to look at this positively, you could argue that its only now that we're truly transitioning from Klopp's team to Slot's - which was always going to be messy. We've just delayed it by a year.
 
Yea that is the biggest concern for me - that over time we seem to be getting worse and less coherent.

In Klopp's first 2-3 years, we weren't always setting the world on fire, but it was plain to see to everyone that we were getting better and better, and had a crystal clear identity that seemed entrenched in every player and the collective group.
Not advocating change of Slot but comparing Klopp post covid season and here isn’t same. There were multiple factors for Klopp season.,,CBs all injured, covid games and lack of FSG investment but we had an identity. So far over last 6 months, don’t feel we have yet seen Slot’s..,
 
How often have we played the same line up this season? Feels like we're changing it a lot on defence and midfield since day one, and attacking wise since Isak joined. Maybe the Burnley game was the only one we didn't change at least one? Sometimes it's unavoidable, but I don't think it's helped.


I think, given most are underperforming, it is not a personel problem (although that's far easier to call out), it's tactics and bedding the new players in. Would like to see a settled team as much as possible for a run of games, maybe even for the league cup, just to get some rhythm going.
 
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