Penaltelli

[Fabio]

I agree with you that Balotelli should have taken the pen but how did Gerrard not get his way here? Gerrard's comment would imply he doesn't like Balotelli because he probably see's Balo as a potential bad influence around the club.

I just don't get the 'Gerrard acted the cunt because he didn't get his way'. It doesn't apply in this situation??

Gerrard dislikes Mario, doesn't want him to stop his friends taking penalties

But also, it's a long standing thing with Gerrard. Always acts the tit when things don't go his way

 

[6TimesaRed]

Your first point is dreadfully short-termist, old friend. Look at the dissension on the pitch last night, look at this debate on here now, look at Balotelli's employment history and you'll see - as if you didn't know anyway - what I'm talking about.

I give a flying f'ck if Stevie or anyone else dislikes someone because they're having a destructive effect on the team. Not only would I not defend the kind of behaviour from Stevie that you describe, I've said before now that I don't think he's a good captain because of it (and been criticised heavily for that). None of that makes any difference to the fact - and it IS a fact - that he's right about Balotelli.

To be fair Judge.. I would prefer to have a player to step up to the plate when needed on the pitch...

IMHO thats what he did last night.. and arguably for the last 3 games.. It appears he has turned a corner on current form..

If anyone had a destructive influenece on the side in the past it was Suarez.. eventually he became the key player in the team.. Every player deserves a chance.

Im not saying Balotelli is a key player, far from it.. But the fella has turned a corner and for his captain to publicy lambast him, when he deserved a pat on the back is shameful.. extremley shameful..

 

[ILD]

@Judge Jules,

Mario has really kept his head down and there has been no off field reports or any sign of trouble surrounding him. He looks lean and eager to impress. In the last few matches he has contributed to our last three wins. Let's at least wait to see smoke before we call fire.

 

[Judge Jules]

Sorry mate, AFAIC that display last night was the fire you're referring to.

 

[6TimesaRed]

One thing that struck me about Balotelli last night after he scored that penalty.. He reminded me of Cantona..

You may laugh.. He had a touch of arrogance about him.. Never did UTD any harm...

 

[ILD]

Gerrard dislikes Mario, doesn't want him to stop his friends taking penalties

But also, it's a long standing thing with Gerrard. Always acts the tit when things don't go his way

Yeah I agree Gerrard can be a moody git but Rodgers picked Henderson as the penalty taker, not Gerrard. It's not as if Gerrard didn't get his own way. I think Gerrard wanted Balotelli to respect the manager's decision and the armband. Not that I agree that Henderson or the person wearing the arm band should have taken it. I was screaming for Mario to take it. I think a lot of the blame lies with Rodgers for not designating it properly. Gerrard exacerbated the situation with his stupid comments. Foolish from Gerrard. Hopefully it's forgotten by the weekend.

 

[Jack D Rips]

It's possible that Rodgers told Balotelli, when he was going on, to take a penalty if we got one. Of course it should have also been communicated to Henderson. Maybe that's why he was looking towards the bench.

 

[LeTallecWiz]

Your first point is dreadfully short-termist, old friend. Look at the dissension on the pitch last night, look at this debate on here now, look at Balotelli's employment history and you'll see - as if you didn't know anyway - what I'm talking about.

I give a flying f'ck if Stevie or anyone else dislikes someone because they're having a destructive effect on the team. Not only would I not defend the kind of behaviour from Stevie that you describe, I've said before now that I don't think he's a good captain because of it (and been criticised heavily for that). None of that makes any difference to the fact - and it IS a fact - that he's right about Balotelli.

short termist would be to ignore how he's caused no trouble whatsoever since his move - dropped? Nothing to his media, puts his head down and works. Not on the bench? Nothing to the media, puts his head down and works. Agent blabbers to the media? Puts hid head down and work. Can't score for shit? Keeps on working and trying. Look at him on the pitch - he looks fitter, faster, HUNGRIER. I think you're ignoring the fact NO teammates have bad mouthed him - he was popular @ City and here with us ... Mourinho loved him despite his antics, and even in Milan where he struggled, he was popular. He's not a bad kid.

The bold part makes no sense - there's plenty of stories of that in our history and yet, teams can and will succeed ... He's actually key, whether you like it or not, to our chances of finishing well this season because he's our best goalscorer after Studge ...

 

[Judge Jules]

It's really not that difficult. We have three penalty specialists in the squad - Gerrard, Balotelli and Lambert.

I can understand the confusion if two or more of them are on the pitch at the same time, but when there's only one of them on the pitch, it really isn't fucking hard.

Ground rules for Rodgers:

1. Set out the hierarchy between Gerrard, Balotelli and Lambert if they happen to be on the pitch at the same time.
2. Clear instructions that if only one of them is on the pitch, they obviously take it before anyone else.
3. Designate the hierarchy in their absence

Agreed. The question is whether his instructions should be overridden if he doesn't get this done. A number of posters on here clearly think so. I totally disagree, and am certain that carrying on like that - as Balotelli did last night - will cost us dear in the long run.

 

[ILD]

Sorry mate, AFAIC that display last night was the fire you're referring to.

I'd need more info JJ. Those Henderson remain the designated pen taker once Balotelli is on the field. If Lambert came on would he have taken it? Would Lambert have asked Henderson for it too? Would he be experiencing a similar wrath (perhaps an OTT word) from you?

On a side note, how does this relate to the CL final incident? Garcia wanted to take the pen and picked up the ball a few times. Carragher intervened and gave it to Alonso.

 

[Silver Sean]

Storm in a tea cup.
Gerrard won't be there next season.
A new dynamic will evolve in the dressing and it might actually be better.

 

[Judge Jules]

short termist would be to ignore how he's caused no trouble whatsoever since his move - dropped? Nothing to his media, puts his head down and works. Not on the bench? Nothing to the media, puts his head down and works. Agent blabbers to the media? Puts hid head down and work. Can't score for shit? Keeps on working and trying. Look at him on the pitch - he looks fitter, faster, HUNGRIER. I think you're ignoring the fact NO teammates have bad mouthed him - he was popular @ City and here with us ... Mourinho loved him despite his antics, and even in Milan where he struggled, he was popular. He's not a bad kid.

The bold part makes no sense - there's plenty of stories of that in our history and yet, teams can and will succeed ... He's actually key, whether you like it or not, to our chances of finishing well this season because he's our best goalscorer after Studge ...

No teammates have badmouthed him? What's the fuss about with Stevie's and the Studge's reaction then? Mourinho may have loved him but he also called him unmanageable - Mourinho's own word. I actually agree he's not a bad kid, but he *is* a bad influence.

Examples of the bolded bit please. I'm not aware of them, and I seriously doubt we'd have had as much success as we have if what you say were true.

 

[Brizzle]

Gerrard on Penalties

"The manager has told me if i'm not on the pitch, he'll [Mario] take them"

 

[Whirly]

It's easy to forget that Balotelli is only 24 considering how long he's been a name.

We're better off taking a small risk and trying to retain him than trying to replace three strikers this summer.

 

[Judge Jules]

I'd need more info JJ. Those Henderson remain the designated pen taker once Balotelli is on the field. If Lambert came on would he have taken it? Would Lambert have asked Henderson for it too? Would he be experiencing a similar wrath (perhaps an OTT word) from you?

On a side note, how does this relate to the CL final incident? Garcia wanted to take the pen and picked up the ball a few times. Carragher intervened and gave it to Alonso.

Anyone who did what Balotelli did last night would get criticised for it by me. You may have your own views on team orders, but when you're out there you do NOT publicly rebel against them. No team will hold together if that starts happening.

In 2005 Alonso was the designated peno taker. Carra was underlining that when he made sure Alonso took it, and I'd lay heavy odds that he'd agree with me about Balotelli's behaviour last night.

 

[peterhague]

What JJ seems to be ignoring is the possibility (likelihood IMO) that there was sufficient confusion over Rodgers' instructions that Balotelli wasn't actually going directly against them anyway, but actually making the common sense interpretation of accounting for a new and better taker coming on as sub.

Until we know that then having any strong opinion on it seems premature.

 

[6TimesaRed]

Anyone who did what Balotelli did last night would get criticised for it by me. You may have your own views on team orders, but when you're out there you do NOT publicly rebel against them. No team will hold together if that starts happening.

In 2005 Alonso was the designated peno taker. Carra was underlining that when he made sure Alonso took it, and I'd lay heavy odds that he'd agree with me about Balotelli's behaviour last night.

Actually Judge.. Carra has come out and said Balo should take the Peno's over Hendo every day of the week..

Something on the lines..

Hendo penalty taker ?.. All the more reason why Balo should take it..

 

[peterhague]

Anyone who did what Balotelli did last night would get criticised for it by me. You may have your own views on team orders, but when you're out there you do NOT publicly rebel against them. No team will hold together if that starts happening.

In 2005 Alonso was the designated peno taker. Carra was underlining that when he made sure Alonso took it, and I'd lay heavy odds that he'd agree with me about Balotelli's behaviour last night.

Except he doesn't. He's twice endorsed Balotelli's stepping in to take it.

 

[Rosco]

There's only two people worthy of criticism in this for me, the person who decided that Hendo should take a penalty ahead of Balotelli and Gerrard.

 

[Judge Jules]

What JJ seems to be ignoring is the possibility (likelihood IMO) that there was sufficient confusion over Rodgers' instructions that Balotelli wasn't actually going directly against them anyway, but actually making the common sense interpretation of accounting for a new and better taker coming on as sub.

Until we know that then having any strong opinion on it seems premature.

Side issue IMO. The captain speaks for the manager on the pitch and going against him publicly is an absolute no-no in my book.

 

[6TimesaRed]

Jamie Carragher ✔@Carra23
Also just heard it was Henderson supposed to be on them not Sturridge, more reason for Mario to take it!!!

Jamie Carragher ✔@Carra23
Pressure pen late in a big European game you want your best man on it. Balotelli was that man!

 

[rurikbird]

He publicly went against team orders and challenged his captain, who then had to let him have his way or risk stoking up the incident - bad enough already - into something even worse. I want my striker to have that quasi-arrogance when he's through on goal with a giant keeper to beat. I don't want him to display it in yesterday's circumstances. Last night it worked out, but in the future our performances as a team will suffer if this continues.

Well, you can't turn your arrogance on and off quite like that. Besides, as fan I want our best available penalty taker to take the decisive penalty. If there is some confusion over rules in this type of situation, that's where you want that confident person to step up and say "I got this." It's not ideal the way it's happened; clearly Balotelli should have been the designated penalty taker by Rodgers beforehand. But I guess it comes down to this: if you know for a fact that you are the best person for the job and doing this job well is crucial for everyone, but some rule or confusion over rules is preventing you from doing it – do you just stand there silently and hope the other, less qualified person doesn't mess up? Or do you bend the rules and take responsibility? I think it's ultimately better for the team morale and spirit for players to take responsibility for things they are confident in.

I want more of this attitude in the team, not less. We all like Can precisely because he has this kind of attitude – "I know I'm not a centre-back by trade, but I got this." Do you think Rodgers instructed him to go on his constant runs deep into the enemy territory and to toy with and tease the opposition forwards, even though in purely footballing terms it's nothing but creating unnecessary danger? No, it comes from his attitude – and we love it, and the manager does too. Mignolet's turnaround in form is largely down to him choosing to ignore the coaching advice that was making him second-guess his decisions and just focus on what he does best, whether someone thinks it "fits our playing style" or not. Don't like my style? Get used to it! The main reason I'm disappointed with Allen is that he is never, ever in danger of bending the rules to his advantage. He is the definition of a nice guy who doesn't ever win anything because following instructions to him is more important than winning. I think Balotelli is in tune with this kind of spirit and arrogance running through this team in the recent months – and I'm sorry to say but Gerrard is not, and you can see this from Gerrard's recent performances.

 

[Judge Jules]

Carra's saying that Balotelli should have been the designated penalty taker ahead of Henderson, which I actually agree with. He's not made any comment on whether Balotelli should have done what he did in taking the ball off Henderson and publicly going against instructions.

 

[ILD]

What JJ seems to be ignoring is the possibility (likelihood IMO) that there was sufficient confusion over Rodgers' instructions that Balotelli wasn't actually going directly against them anyway, but actually making the common sense interpretation of accounting for a new and better taker coming on as sub.

Until we know that then having any strong opinion on it seems premature.

Yep. We aren't privy to decisions made behind closed doors. Sturridge's reaction implied Henderson was selected as penalty taker. Henderson's reaction implied he wanted to assume responsibility and take it. Perhaps he wanted to step up and perhaps he felt he was instructed to do so. Mario also wanted to take it as he's confident and strikers love scoring goals.. Henderson agreed to allow him take it and celebrated with a hug at the end of it. It was Gerrard who exacerbated the situation with his comments. Sort it out behind closed doors.

 

[mom]

He's the best pen taker we have away from Gerrard. I wouldn't have felt confident with anyone else taking that pen and there was plenty riding on it. Sturridge spat his dummy out, but that's just the sign of a keen hungry striker who wants to score. Fine by me. It's not like this happens every week, it's just been blown out of proportion. Partly by the media, but also by the inappropriate comments from Gerrard.
He scored, we won.

 

[6TimesaRed]

Carra's saying that Balotelli should have been the designated penalty taker ahead of Henderson, which I actually agree with. He's not made any comment on whether Balotelli should have done what he did in taking the ball off Henderson and publicly going against instructions.

If Carra was on the pitch.. he would have personally handed it to Balotelli.. So it wouldn't have happened..

the point is it should never been a topic of discussion..

@Rosco hit the nail on the head..

2 people to blame..

The person who chose Hendo should be the penalty taker over Balotelli, and Gerrard

 

[tony]

Stevie is the nearest ITV have got to a performing monkey since they retired the PGTips team.

Not sure he's the nearest

 

[peterhague]

Carra's saying that Balotelli should have been the designated penalty taker ahead of Henderson, which I actually agree with. He's not made any comment on whether Balotelli should have done what he did in taking the ball off Henderson and publicly going against instructions.

He directly refers to Henderson being 'on them'!!! And then endorses Mario having taken it.

What more evidence do you need that he approved of what happened?

 

[Judge Jules]

Well, you can't turn your arrogance on and off quite like that. Besides, as fan I want our best available penalty taker to take the decisive penalty. If there is some confusion over rules in this type of situation, that's where you want that confident person to step up and say "I got this." It's not ideal the way it's happened; clearly Balotelli should have been the designated penalty taker by Rodgers beforehand. But I guess it comes down to this: if you know for a fact that you are the best person for the job and doing this job well is crucial for everyone, but some rule or confusion over rules is preventing you from doing it – do you just stand there silently and hope the other, less qualified person doesn't mess up? Or do you bend the rules and take responsibility? I think it's ultimately better for the team morale and spirit for players to take responsibility for things they are confident in.

I want more of this attitude in the team, not less. We all like Can precisely because he has this kind of attitude – "I know I'm not a centre-back by trade, but I got this." Do you think Rodgers instructed him to go on his constant runs deep into the enemy territory and to toy with the opposition forwards, even though in purely footballing terms it's nothing but creating unnecessary danger? No, it comes from his attitude – and we love it, and the manager does too. Mignolet's turnaround in form is largely down to him choosing to ignore the coaching advice that was making him second-guess his decisions and just focus on what he does best, whether someone thinks it "fits our playing style" or not. Don't like my style? Get used to it! The main reason I'm disappointed with Allen is that he is never, ever in danger of bending the rules to his advantage. He is the definition of a nice guy who doesn't ever win anything. I think Balotelli is in tune with this kind of spirit and arrogance running through this team in the recent months – and I'm sorry to say but Gerrard is not, and you can see this from Gerrard's recent performances.

There's a balance of risk involved. Which poses the greater danger to our future success - Rodgers making some mistaken decisions as he learns his trade, or players overriding his decisions and instructions? I'm absolutely clear that the second of those is the more dangerous. If we're not all pulling in the same direction, we're sunk.

 

[ILD]

Well, you can't turn your arrogance on and off quite like that. Besides, as fan I want our best available penalty taker to take the decisive penalty. If there is some confusion over rules in this type of situation, that's where you want that confident person to step up and say "I got this." It's not ideal the way it's happened; clearly Balotelli should have been the designated penalty taker by Rodgers beforehand. But I guess it comes down to this: if you know for a fact that you are the best person for the job and doing this job well is crucial for everyone, but some rule or confusion over rules is preventing you from doing it – do you just stand there silently and hope the other, less qualified person doesn't mess up? Or do you bend the rules and take responsibility? I think it's ultimately better for the team morale and spirit for players to take responsibility for things they are confident in.

I dunno Rurik. You have to respect the manager's decision IF he designated penalties to Henderson. Rafa fined Bellamy for taking a pen when he wasn't the designated penalty taker. Now maybe Balotelli presumed he jumps the queue once he's on the field? I dunno, no one knows. Only Rodgers, Mario and Henderson. There was definitely confusion hence Henderson looking to the bench for guidance.