Pre Match Pre Match - Leicester (A) - Sun 16:30
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No thanks. He's good, but not worth it. Too short term.
Of course, but none of that really explains why we’re in a form (not result) slump.
Are you saying our players are too complacent to get up for a CL game against PSG or a Cup Final against Newcastle, or that Villa players didn’t put the effort in early season?
I’d say that has more to do with quality of player rather than rotation, no?
To take the point that @Fabio has made - we really should be firing on all cylinders at the minute - it’s the run in - we’re grinding out results which is great but that’s when things can go pear shaped very quickly.
I’m just saying, the brief look at the minutes on the pitch would suggest that the players that came in in January have played a fair amount to lighten the load on other players - maybe they were short of players in the first half of the season and that’s why they’re so far behind.
It’s just an observation.
At the end of the day, we can only (looking forward) judge ourselves on our current form. The season we last won the league we ended slugglishly and concerns continued into the following season. Call it complacency or whatever, the team's performances and individual showings tell their own story. We have a handful of players who've hit the end of the road with Liverpool, whether it be that they just haven't been good enough, or they have run their course.
I'm not reading too much into Villa's tie, but ultimately they gave PSG a good game, arguably more so than we did, and if we're going to blame it on PSG's complacency, then it's also justified to say that we could have ended up dead and buried in the first leg, but thanks to the brilliance of Ali, we didn't. We might have given them a more serious examination at Anfield, but we came away with nothing. I'm guessing the concerns lie somewhere between why we played so within ourselves and lost, and why Villa showed that taking it to them left them a similarly marginal defeat (ultimately). Do we want to lose trying to not get beat, or do we want to try to win and risk loss as par the course?
Villa bought well in January and they have been able to freshen up their front line, we defend better, but on current form they are more fluid and in good form as an attacking team (their results are still hit and miss though). Earlier in the season we were the ones in good form, but that's unravelled as the season has gone on and our flaws have revealed themselves in brutal fashion. It's not a "form is temporary" typical dip, it's a cautionary tale to not get carried away with what we're about to achieve. Fergie always said that the best managers are the ones who realise their issues and act on them, even when it appears to everyone else that they are at some kind of pinnacle. We have it all to do and Slot has big decisions to make. He also needs to show that our dip isn't down to the gradual transition from Klopp's leftovers to Slot's real level.
We will all enjoy winning the league (I'm sick of happy clappy bellends taking stock with this), league wins have been few and far between and Slot deserves every plaudit that comes his way, but next season will be the most important of his career, because that is when he will be judged on how he can put his stamp on the club and justify the accolades which will have come his way.
I'm not reading too much into Villa's tie, but ultimately they gave PSG a good game, arguably more so than we did, and if we're going to blame it on PSG's complacency, then it's also justified to say that we could have ended up dead and buried in the first leg, but thanks to the brilliance of Ali, we didn't. We might have given them a more serious examination at Anfield, but we came away with nothing. I'm guessing the concerns lie somewhere between why we played so within ourselves and lost, and why Villa showed that taking it to them left them a similarly marginal defeat (ultimately). Do we want to lose trying to not get beat, or do we want to try to win and risk loss as par the course?
Villa bought well in January and they have been able to freshen up their front line, we defend better, but on current form they are more fluid and in good form as an attacking team (their results are still hit and miss though). Earlier in the season we were the ones in good form, but that's unravelled as the season has gone on and our flaws have revealed themselves in brutal fashion. It's not a "form is temporary" typical dip, it's a cautionary tale to not get carried away with what we're about to achieve. Fergie always said that the best managers are the ones who realise their issues and act on them, even when it appears to everyone else that they are at some kind of pinnacle. We have it all to do and Slot has big decisions to make. He also needs to show that our dip isn't down to the gradual transition from Klopp's leftovers to Slot's real level.
We will all enjoy winning the league (I'm sick of happy clappy bellends taking stock with this), league wins have been few and far between and Slot deserves every plaudit that comes his way, but next season will be the most important of his career, because that is when he will be judged on how he can put his stamp on the club and justify the accolades which will have come his way.
I think its quite extreme to call it a form slump.
Since our draw away to Forest on the 14th of January we've got:
9 wins, 1 draw and 1 loss in the league. Draw against Villa away and loss to Fulham away.
Conceding 9 goals.
1-0 win and 1-0 loss to PSG, out on pens. CL. Who incidentally are looking like the best team in Europe.
The game at Anfield was decided by fine margins. We played a very good game in all honesty, so not sure why being complacent is even mentioned here.
The EFL cup final was days after a mentally and physically draining CL game were we lost on pens.
I think for most players it would have been hard to go again with the same energy. At least enough to match Newcastle who are probably the second best team in the league these days, form wise.
As said previously it would have been much better for us if the cup final was a few games after the CL loss.
But you can't control the fixture list.
Disappointing cup final and performance no doubt. But I can understand why the players were below par.
Villa lost 6 games and drew 5 before Christmas. I'd say they were pretty shit for a top 6 team.
And Everton?
Also I think you're too focused on results.
Yes results matter the most, but we haven't been playing well.
Yeah, soz and a draw away to Everton. It was rearranged from GW15.
2 draws.
Everton who we beat 1-0 at Anfield. The only loss they've suffered after Moyes first game when returning in mid January.
You still haven't answered the question. Are we playing well? It's not sustainable.
We're not playing well but its been sustainable. That was my point. The results show that. 13 points lead is quite something, and the team and Slot doesn't really get enough credit for it as some are more obsessed with us being less easy on the eye these days.
Its just a shame we were in a midst of the worst slump before the CL games and EFL cup final, and that they were so close together. That said it was fine margins that saw us get eliminated in the end.
No doubt Villa were shit before Xmas.
Trying to choose my words carefully, so maybe “form slump” isn’t the right term, but I don’t know what you call it when you’re getting results unconvincingly against teams from the lower parts of the division and being comprehensively outplayed by good or excellent teams in important games - early season we were the ones smashing other teams.
Even our good results and performances - like away to City - they really should have dominated be better there.
I’m not concerned about it, in the sense of it being a hangover in to next season - but that’s 2 seasons in a row that we’be looked less impressive in the run in when it mattered.
It probably is down to repeat offenders losing form or more specifically not getting into form (because some haven’t been in form all season) and that costings us, which does amplify the need for changes in the forward line - looking at you Jota & Darwin and an alternative to Dom - because that’s also 2 seasons he’s been poor in the run in.
Mo gets a bit of a pass as do Gakpo & Diaz, but not a complete pass.
Again, there’s no point b having a Harvey or a Chiesa if they’re just going to watch from the bench.
So its not just about winning games when we win our games. They have to be won in a certain style and dominance.
Thats a tough ask in a 38 league game or a 50/60 game season if you want to win it in the end. As we are about to do with the league.
If you look at the past league winners there are multiple games were they won ugly at certain parts of the season.
The City away game could have been 3/4-0 btw.
The form slump in March and mismatch of some players will be addressed in the summer.
I'll be extremely disappointed and surprised if we aren't stronger next season.
No doubt that Slot will learn a lot from his first season in the league as well. Adding a league title is also nice.
I might be negative but I'm right. We threw away 2 cup competitions because we're fatigued, due to our manager rotating poorly.
The league is a monumental achievement. League and league cup. Even better. League and champions league, even better. All fucking 3, Which was seriously a possibility? Oof. my days.
The league is a monumental achievement. League and league cup. Even better. League and champions league, even better. All fucking 3, Which was seriously a possibility? Oof. my days.
Results are paramount, but we had it last season. You can only play badly and win for so long. Last minute winners can't be relied on for long term success. Thankfully we already had such a commanding lead that other teams also decided they couldn't be arsed, like we have recently.
I just hope slot like the players he's bought over the summer.
I'd have Watkins as second striker over Nuñez if we could also replace Jota but I reckon that's unlikely
Agreed that he is arguably a 2 year bet - but we also need players around their peak whilst we are getting the final year or two out of Mo and it would allow us to bet on a less proven but high potential player in the other CF position.
We've got 1 last minute winner in our 12 previous league wins.
Crediting a league title to other teams not being arsed is new level.
You're not getting that our results have been marginal, do you think it's sustainable? It simple isn't. There are more games in the last 12 where I've walked away thinking we've gotten away with it, than we've been badly done to.
The last minute winner was a reference to last season (as I made clear). At what stage did I credit it for that? I said we did the hard work and created a borderline unassailable lease, and other teams shifted focus to competitions they could win. You genuinely think an abject performance at home to Brentford would be followed up by a domination of Madrid? Of course other teams took the foot off, and we've done similar.
You're being absolutely ridiculous and ignoring performances for some weird reason and I'll be fucked if I can understand it. We have been poorly for 2 months. We lost a fucking final due to poor performance. We were eliminated from the champions league due to poor performances (mostly by certain players in the 2nd leg).
Even when people say focus on the performances, you're shouting results.
That’s absolutely not what I said mate, you’re trying to words into my mouth that aren’t there.
I’m delighted we’re winning and it’s absolutely not about playing a certain style or dominating.
However and this points has been made, which you’re avoiding - playing poorly and winning is not normal and it’s not sustainable - it usually leads to a run of form that devastates a season / you only have to look back 12 months for an example.
We’re some what lucky that our opponents haven’t been able to capitalise on it - not that I particularly care about them.
You know, it’s absolutely ok to play well AND win too - and I appreciate us grinding out results because that’s bloody important too - but we’re supposed to be hitting peak form right about now - and we aren’t.
I’m delighted it doesn’t matter as far as the league goes, but it’s a horrible thing from a CL perspective. League Cup I can just about swallow, even though after getting to the final it’d be nice to win the thing.
Its happened a few times. Sidestepping and skipping over the discussion at hand to make sarcastic comments, or to just point blank refuse to discuss the topic; talking about the results and the form table.
We all would take 38 1-0 last minute own goals after being fucking hammered for 90 minutes, to win a league. Trophies are all that counts. But I'd hope we were all mature enough to go "fuck me that was a lucky season".
If we're not going to comment on the performances of the actual fucking players, then why the fuck are we here?
It’s the difference between a good team, a very good team, an excellent team and one of the great teams.
We can all cope with us winning the league and being a good side - but there’s absolutely nothing wrong in wanting us to be better and go into the history books as one of the great teams - and that’s what we should aspire to.
I want us to win a domestic treble or win Several CL on the bounce ir be the first to do a quad.
I don’t really care how we do it / but I’d much prefer we doing by being undefeated and fucking everyone who gets in our way mercilessly and with style!!!
This is what we should at least aspire to.
We should be showing prospective players that we don't all get exhausted in the 2nd half of the season due to poor squad management
Tell me, if we're after a top talent but are pitching "you can develop formula while playing backup to mo/gakpo/whoever"; in what world are they going to believe they'll get minutes?
Tell me, if we're after a top talent but are pitching "you can develop formula while playing backup to mo/gakpo/whoever"; in what world are they going to believe they'll get minutes?
Get to fuck. Everyone on here doesn’t have to agree with your negativity towards the team.
I’m not, but whatever. It’s been sustainable regardless - that’s my fucking point.
1 last minute winner in 12 league games.
It’s performances that are basically just good enough to win.
So we’re either not playing as poorly as you think or we have the most luck any team has had in decades.
Given its Slot’s first year in charge, as some seem to forget, it’s quite understandable that performances will vary and he’ll have to address that we basically peaked to early in the season in terms of our best form.
Anyway, the points been made a million times and we’re going around in circles.
You can disagree all you want, I've disagreed for years with people and I couldn't give a fuck. You're just objectively ignoring performances and refusing to discuss it.
Say you don't want to discuss, refuse to engage. Others can discuss the performances of the team without you chiming in about how we're winning the league
Haha, I’m not refusing to discuss it all.
You’re the one calling our players frauds and charlatans. That’s a level I can’t relate to as a fan.
And talking about sidestepping the discussion points. What’s the point of adding things like «you can’t rely on last minute winners» to the discussion when they aren’t even true. Just to make a point.
Last seasons comeback kings were another team btw.
The discussion is moot anyway. Fuck going around in circles.
The negativity is fucking up the joy of winning the league. But that’s probably only me.
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