Rafa's team vs Brendan's team

[Hansern]

It's not wholly illogical at all. In fact I'm not sure it's even a way of looking at things: he just seemed to be posting an interesting fact.

It might be extremely significant, it might be wholly irrelevant. Chances are it's somewhere in between.

It doesnt paint the whole picture at all, but its an interesting fact. Moyes approach and tactics have resulted in the same points total and goals total with a much better squad.
The manager is irrelevant argument takes a hit when Moyes has 23 points less than Fergie after 29 games.

Its interesting at least

 

[King Binny]

Out of curiosity, did a quick look up and some impressive records broken/set that season:

LIVERPOOL PREMIERSHIP AWAY POINTS
08/09 43 points
01/02 39 points
07/08 34 points (GD +9)
05/06 34 points (GD +8)
96/97 32 points

LIVERPOOL MOST PREMIERSHIP POINTS
08/09 86 points
05/06 82 points
01/02 80 points
07/08 76 points

LIVERPOOL MOST PREMIERSHIP WINS
08/09 25 wins
05/06 25 wins
01/02 24 wins
07/08 21 wins
94/95 21 wins in 42 games compared to 38 in the other seasons.

LIVERPOOL PREMIERSHIP GOALS SCORED
08/09 77 goals
00/01 71 goals
95/96 70 goals
97/98 68 goals
98/99 68 goals

LIVERPOOL PREMIERSHIP CLEAN SHEETS
05/06 22
08/09 20
06/07 20
01/02 18
07/08 18
94/95 17 (42 games compared to 38 in the rest)

LIVERPOOL TOP FLIGHT GOALS CONCEDED 78/79 16 goals (42 games)
87/88 24 goals (40 games)
68/69 24 goals (42 games)
70/71 24 goals (42 games)
05/06 25 goals (38 games)
08/09 27 goals (38 games)
06/07 27 goals (38 games)

21 teams have ended a top flight season with better goal difference, however only Arsenal with +51 have finished second with better goal difference. It is the = 6th best goal difference in the Premiership.
LIVERPOOL PREMIERSHIP GOAL DIFFERENCE
08/09 +50
07/08 +39
01/02 +37
95/96 +36
00/01 +32
05/06 +32
06/07 +30
Scored six more goals than any previous Premiership season and an extra +11 goal difference.

LIVERPOOL LEAST PREMIERSHIP DEFEATS
08/09 2 defeats
07/08 4 defeats
05/06 6 defeats
01/02 6 defeats
95/96 7 defeats
A new Premiership club record!

LIVERPOOL LEAST TOP FLIGHT DEFEATS 03/04 Arsenal : 0 defeats in 38 games
88/89 Preston NE : 0 defeats in 22 games
90/91 Arsenal : 1 defeat in 38 games
04/05 Chelsea : 1 defeat in 38 games
68/69 Leeds Utd : 2 defeats in 42 games
87/88 LIVERPOOL : 2 defeats in 40 games
08/09 LIVERPOOL 2 defeats in 38 games
Only the SEVENTH time a side has lost two or less games in a top flight season.

 

[Fallon]

Real Madrid and Barcelona might disagree with that statement Fallon

And statistically they'd be wrong.

 

[red_maradona]

Rafa's team specialised on beating high flying teams like ours, and the midfield, Gerrard, Alonso, Mascherano was just incredible.

great thread, very very difficult to predict, but I think Rafa's team might just edge a 1-0. I think the biggest factor maybe the gerrard of 2009 - I don't think this team could cope with him, he would be a force of nature.

 

[gene hughes]

Brendan's team would win because Rafa's players are past their peak now whereas Brendan's team are at their peak except for the ones who are under 28 because they can only get better.

 

[tony]

Don't knoiw but I reckon this team would do them both ( Hodgson 6/12/10 against Villa in PL)

Reina Konchesky Skirtel Kyragkos Johnson Lucas Meireiles Maxi Babel Kuyt Ngog
with Poulsen Cole and Jovanovic on the bench.

Fuck me we've come a long way since then

 

[keniget]

It's difficult because I honestly felt that Rafa himself prevented us from winning the title that season. Had he have loosened up a bit when we were on top and gone for it I think we'd have had a much better chance of winning the damn thing. Towards the end of the season when we knew we had to go for we were steamrolling teams without much of a problem.

If we win our remaining games we'll have 89 points (and probably win the title) thus bettering the total of 86pts in 08/09 so heh, then you can say this team is better.

 

[Spionkop69]

Which one was better?

Rafa's team 2008/09

Reina

Arbeloa (Kelly)
Carragher (Skrtel)
Agger (Hyypia)
Aurelio (Dossena)

Mascherano (Lucas)
Alonso
Gerrard

Riera (Babel)
Kuyt (Benayoun)

Torres (Ngog, Keane)

Brendan's team 2013/14

Mignolet

Johnson
Skrtel (Touré)
Agger (Sakho)
Flanagan (Enrique)

Lucas
Henderson (Allen)
Gerrard

Coutinho (Sterling)
Suarez

Sturridge

---------------------

I have to say that Rafa's team was probably better, I mean look at that midfield. Gerrard was in his prime, Alonso and Mascherano too.


Our defence was also slightly better thanks to Hyypia, Carragher and Arbeloa.

However, we lacked creativity up front which is something I think Brendan's team is a lot better at.
Brendan's team is more lethal.

Why? Is it because we are all harmonious that you wish to start some sort of civil war using Rafa as bait! Away with you.

 

[red_maradona]

Don't knoiw but I reckon this team would do them both ( Hodgson 6/12/10 against Villa in PL)

Reina Konchesky Skirtel Kyragkos Johnson Lucas Meireiles Maxi Babel Kuyt Ngog
with Poulsen Cole and Jovanovic on the bench.

Fuck me we've come a long way since then

shudder

 

[Modo]

Why? Is it because we are all harmonious that you wish to start some sort of civil war using Rafa as bait! Away with you.

A troll's gotta do what a troll's gotta do.

 

[Wizardry]

You look at that Rafa side and realize what an outstanding back 5 (or 6 with Reina) we had.

On paper that defense is miles ahead of our current set up and the midfield you couldn't even compare. The reality is that the effectiveness of the respective midfields once they hit the pitch isn't that different. The defense looks better in Rafa's side and it was better - considerably.

Up front, however, is where what a number of us were saying in the last 3 years or so of Rafa's reign is underlined. In that Rafa team there were only two real goal threats - Gerrard and Torres. The mancs, chavs, city and even Arsenal over the last 10 years have shown how important it is to have multiple match winners. Where we had only two we've now got Suarez, Sturridge, Sterling, Coutinho with Gerrard and Henderson offering some goal threat behind them. That's a massive difference and it's effect on the opposition is huge. That attacking threat ensures the opposition is more careful at the back and can't attack us with impunity. Our current style, in many ways, helps our defense - it's frightening to think how many goals we'd have conceded with this back 4 if they were playing in 2008 or 2009.

I'm sure Rafa's more disciplined approach would see our back 4 being more stingy in the chances they gave opponents but I think the current approach gives us the capacity to win more games. It causes teams more trouble and stifles their own attack. With the possible exception of Chelsea who's style could well be our Achilles heel - we'll find out soon enough.

I'll just add one more point. I believe Rodger's style is far more sustainable. I think we saw under Houllier and under Rafa how difficult it is to sustain that constant, highly disciplined, intense brand of football. Elsewhere we saw it under Mourinho at Chelsea where they looked to burn out in his last year - frazzled and tired. Our current approach, focusing on the players playing more football with more flair will, IMO, prove far more sustainable. We saw something similar with the mancs who, with a couple of refreshments in staff each year, sustained a successful attacking style for nearly two decades. Even Arsenal, despite the fact they've not won anything since Adam, have been relatively successful for over 15 years playing an attacking style.

The current approach of Liverpool FC under Rodgers looks a good bet to bring us success. Unlike his two predecessors, I don't believe this will be a one off opportunity - the approach promises more than one title challenge every six years and that's exactly what we've all been craving for two decades.

 

[Modo]

You look at that Rafa side and realize what an outstanding back 5 (or 6 with Reina) we had.

On paper that defense is miles ahead of our current set up and the midfield you couldn't even compare. The reality is that the effectiveness of the respective midfields once they hit the pitch isn't that different. The defense looks better in Rafa's side and it was better - considerably.

Up front, however, is where what a number of us were saying in the last 3 years or so of Rafa's reign is underlined. In that Rafa team there were only two real goal threats - Gerrard and Torres. The mancs, chavs, city and even Arsenal over the last 10 years have shown how important it is to have multiple match winners. Where we had only two we've now got Suarez, Sturridge, Sterling, Coutinho with Gerrard and Henderson offering some goal threat behind them. That's a massive difference and it's effect on the opposition is huge. That attacking threat ensures the opposition is more careful at the back and can't attack us with impunity. Our current style, in many ways, helps our defense - it's frightening to think how many goals we'd have conceded with this back 4 if they were playing in 2008 or 2009.

I'm sure Rafa's more disciplined approach would see our back 4 being more stingy in the chances they gave opponents but I think the current approach gives us the capacity to win more games. It causes teams more trouble and stifles their own attack. With the possible exception of Chelsea who's style could well be our Achilles heel - we'll find out soon enough.

I'll just add one more point. I believe Rodger's style is far more sustainable. I think we saw under Houllier and under Rafa how difficult it is to sustain that constant, highly disciplined, intense brand of football. Elsewhere we saw it under Mourinho at Chelsea where they looked to burn out in his last year - frazzled and tired. Our current approach, focusing on the players playing more football with more flair will, IMO, prove far more sustainable. We saw something similar with the mancs who, with a couple of refreshments in staff each year, sustained a successful attacking style for nearly two decades. Even Arsenal, despite the fact they've not won anything since Adam, have been relatively successful for over 15 years playing an attacking style.

The current approach of Liverpool FC under Rodgers looks a good bet to bring us success. Unlike his two predecessors, I don't believe this will be a one off opportunity - the approach promises more than one title challenge every six years and that's exactly what we've all been craving for two decades.

I think your post is pretty spot on except for the sustainability bit.
As you may recall, our midfield looked absolutely knackered during the last 20 minutes of the games we played in the beginning of the season. Rodgers type of football demands players, especially midfielders, who are constantly running and chasing players.
I'm not sure if Henderson, Allen and Lucas would be able to keep that going in a season with European football. We would need additions in midfield.

Also Rafa's Valencia team seemed to adapt to his brand of football pretty quickly and they kept it going as long as he was there.

However, I would say that it's a whole lot easier to slot in to Rodgers type of football than Rafa's.

 

[gkmacca]

great thread, very very difficult to predict, but I think Rafa's team might just edge a 1-0. I think the biggest factor maybe the gerrard of 2009 - I don't think this team could cope with him, he would be a force of nature.

Why is it a great thread? It's a mad speculation about two very different teams at very different periods, and we haven't even had Arbeloa reappear as the fans' favourite.

 

[Dreambeliever]

Rafas by a mile (for the moment)

His side almost won the league while playing cl and got to a cl final too

Rodgers team has bombed out of 2 cups and has an out sight shot at the title with no cl.

In time Rodgers May pass that team out but for now it's rafas

 

[gene hughes]

Someone should start a different thread on what the score would be.

 

[doctor_mac]

I think your post is pretty spot on except for the sustainability bit.
As you may recall, our midfield looked absolutely knackered during the last 20 minutes of the games we played in the beginning of the season. Rodgers type of football demands players, especially midfielders, who are constantly running and chasing players.
I'm not sure if Henderson, Allen and Lucas would be able to keep that going in a season with European football. We would need additions in midfield.

Also Rafa's Valencia team seemed to adapt to his brand of football pretty quickly and they kept it going as long as he was there.

However, I would say that it's a whole lot easier to slot in to Rodgers type of football than Rafa's.

I agree with this. I think our style is extremely demanding, but with younglings like Hendo, Allen and Coutinho we have players who can do a job for a number of years. We obviously need to strengthen though.

 

[SummerOnions]

Rafas by a mile (for the moment)

His side almost won the league while playing cl and got to a cl final too

Rodgers team has bombed out of 2 cups and has an out sight shot at the title with no cl.

In time Rodgers May pass that team out but for now it's rafas

out sight shot

 

[Dreambeliever]

Lol outside shot

 

[FMSPWR]

Mascherano would nullify the attacking threat of Coutino in that central role, pretty sure he'd have Joe Allen for breakfast too. The elder Gerrard wouldn't have the legs to deal with his younger self bursting past him to link up with Torres.

Both teams would be knackered second half from all the pressing.


The most frustrating part of this thread is looking at the Rafa side and realising that Kuyt/Riera aside we were only two players away from being incredibly strong on every area of the pitch

 

[Gerry_A_Trick]

Rafa's team had a better back 5, better midfield, but Rodgers has the better attackers. Rafa's team may actually win more often in straight head to heads, given the solid defence and Rafa's ability to set up teams to win once off games. But I reckon the current team is better overall, and more likely to win the league. It's slightly younger too.

 

[LeTallecWiz]

I'll say this - both teams have been excellent at times ...

I just hope that we'll get the pleasure of seeing this one lift silverware - something we didn't get the privilege to do with Rafa's team that pushed hard for the league.

 

[FoxForceFive]

I'll say this - both teams have been excellent at times ...

I just hope that we'll get the pleasure of seeing this one lift silverware - something we didn't get the privilege to do with Rafa's team that pushed hard for the league.

Text from my manc mate last night:

You may just miss out on the league this year, but you'll stroll it next year. You fucking twats. I hate you, I want most of your side and hate myself for it.

 

[LeTallecWiz]

Text from my manc mate last night:

You may just miss out on the league this year, but you'll stroll it next year. You fucking twats. I hate you, I want most of your side and hate myself for it.

Don't fall for it mate - it's a trap.

 

[Loch Ness Monster]

Tough call and probably a very tight match. But Rafa would obsess with trying to stop SAS, 5 at the back and a shield in front, and for that reason there is only one winner for me. Brendan and his army march on.............

 

[mark1975]

Has anyone mentioned that three of the cornerstones of Rafa's side were already at the club? (Carra, Hyypia, Gerrard).

While our current "weaker" defense has three of Rafa's signings as integral members. (Johnson, Skrtel and Agger)

Interesting slant.

 

[hamstrung_pigeon]

Has anyone mentioned that three of the cornerstones of Rafa's side were already at the club? (Carra, Hyypia, Gerrard).

While our current "weaker" defense has three of Rafa's signings as integral members. (Johnson, Skrtel and Agger)

Interesting slant.

You're forgetting Finnan and Didi as well. Finnan often gets forgotten when we talk about the 08/09 team, but we've not had a more reliable right back since he left. Arbeloa was good, but Finnan was better.

 

[Modo]

You're forgetting Finnan and Didi as well. Finnan often gets forgotten when we talk about the 08/09 team, but we've not had a more reliable right back since he left. Arbeloa was good, but Finnan was better.

You do know that Finnan wasn't part of the 08/09 team?

 

[hamstrung_pigeon]

You do know that Finnan wasn't part of the 08/09 team?

That's why he keeps getting forgotten, isn't it?

ps. I'm a dumb fuck.

But... anyway, Benitez did inherit a team with Finnan, so on that count, I was right.

ps. gently and quietly steps away...

 

[Modo]

That's why he keeps getting forgotten, isn't it?

ps. I'm a dumb fuck.

But... anyway, Benitez did inherit a team with Finnan, so on that count, I was right.

ps. gently and quietly steps away...

It was a few years ago so I get it.
Finnan was a part of the exodus that included: Riise, Kewell, Crouch, Carson.

 

[hamstrung_pigeon]

Part 1 has been taken down, unfortunately.