Salah and finals

[Modo]

I saw a post on some rival forum, I think it was redcafe, about how Salah doesn't really perform well in finals. Is there some truth to it?

Champions League:
First final 2018: injured. Goal by Mane
Second final 2019: Scored a pen, don't remember much else.

Super cup 2019:
Both goals by Mane. Salah scored in the penalty shootout.

League cup 2022:
Scored in the penalty shootout. Didn't think he managed to do much else during the game.

World club cup 2019:
Didn't have a good game if I remember it correctly.
Winning goal by Firmino, assisted by Mane.

Afcon:
2017: Lost. Played really well and created Egypt's goal
2022: Lost. Was pretty anonymous throughout. Mane scored the winning pen.

Seems to me like Mane is the one who usually shows up.

 

[rubans]

Dude, you back to this Salah v Mane thing again?
Seriously though, he plays better in semis.

 

[The Nomad]

I saw a post on some rival forum, I think it was redcafe, about how Salah doesn't really perform well in finals. Is there some truth to it?

Champions League:
First final 2018: injured. Goal by Mane
Second final 2019: Scored a pen, don't remember much else.

Super cup 2019:
Both goals by Mane. Salah scored in the penalty shootout.

League cup 2022:
Scored in the penalty shootout. Didn't think he managed to do much else during the game.

World club cup 2019:
Didn't have a good game if I remember it correctly.
Winning goal by Firmino, assisted by Mane.

Afcon:
2017: Lost. Played really well and created Egypt's goal

2022: Lost. Was pretty anonymous throughout. Mane scored the winning pen.

Seems to me like Mane is the one who usually show up.

Or... the opposition who are in the final because they are a good team... shut down Salah.. but creates space for someone else?

 

[Modo]

Dude, you back to this Salah v Mane thing again?
Seriously though, he plays better in semis.

No agenda.
I'd pick Salah over Mané every time.

 

[Brizzle]

Or... the opposition who are in the final because they are a good team... shut down Salah.. but creates space for someone else?

spot on

 

[binomial]

There really is no pleasing some people is there?

Champions League 2019: We won

Super cup 2019: We won

League cup 2022: We won

World club cup 2019: We won

Who fucking cares about the rest.

 

[peekay]

Dunno which opposition fans Modo is referring to. But some of my Manc supporting friends, constantly used to point out Salah has not scored at Old Trafford. As if it was some kind of important metric for evaluating world-class players. They have stopped pointing that out the last three months.

Now there is this Salah does not do enough in finals narrative building. Fairly confident, the dude is going to single-handedly maul an opposition into submission in one of the finals in the next six months and shut down that narrative also.

 

[the count]

Salah was scaring the shit out of Real until Ramos did his judo/karate move on him and changed the direction of the game

 

[Modo]

Thats true

 

[Markeh]

I’m not going to hold any performances with Egypt against Salah, afcon was 9 Lovrens a keeper and Mo

 

[darkstarexodus]

The stats don't make for kind reading but I think it's just that top clubs set out to nullify him and commit significant resources to do so. That opens space for others, notably Mane.

 

[StevieM]

Oh well… he’s just going to have to score hat tricks in the FA Cup and the Champions League Finals this season to balance out that average…

 

[Fabio]

I have noticed he's not at the races in finals. Probably down to better opposition and being doubled up on. Also, they're usually second half of the season where he's carried a team for 5+ months, so he's probably a little tired.

All in all, doesnt matter if we win

 

[Modo]

I do understand that Salah gets more attention from the opposition in important games, but is it wrong to expect that he performs well?

Yes the win is the most important thing, but a good performance kinda helps, doesn't it?

Or have I got this wrong and good players aren't expected to do well in finals?

Didn't MO score in every final he played in except the Uefa cup final? (Assisted Gerrard I think).
Had a few MOM performances too.

 

[reuque]

Worth pointing out that he's played like 5 extra time knockout matches during AFCON inclulding that final, and then this League Cup final went into extra time as well. One would think he needs some days off at some point soon.

 

[RedStar]

I think there is an element of looking for a way to attack world class players and cherry picking certain stats. Like the argument that Messi wasn't good until he won an international comp, as if.

 

[RedStar]

Worth pointing out that he's played like 5 extra time knockout matches during AFCON inclulding that final, and then this League Cup final went into extra time as well. One would think he needs some days off at some point soon.

I'd rest him against Norwich, he's looked a bit leggy against Leeds and Chelsea.

 

[mark1975]

There used to be this myth a few years ago that he didn't perform in the big games, was a flat track bully blah blah. I think you're just taking a few isolated games where he's not really stood out and they just happen to be finals. If we played two finals back to back within a week, I'm pretty sure he would perform in one of them.

I thought Mane had a good game on Sunday in all honesty, we had a lot of joy down that side, but then Diaz is probably giving him that extra support now, which is why we are seeing him being more productive/effective again. He's still way short of his best, but with Mane you can see it's a decline thing, with Mo he's still 90% of the time either excellent in terms of goals, or he has some positive impact. Let's see how he is when get to the next final in May 🙂

 

[MomoWASright]

Finals played for Liverpool and completing more than 45 minutes 4 and won 4.

Finals played for Liverpool and completed less 45 minutes 1 and won 0.

There’s your fucking stats. And your mongy thread.

 

[Fabio]

I do understand that Salah gets more attention from the opposition in important games, but is it wrong to expect that he performs well?

Yes the win is the most important thing, but a good performance kinda helps, doesn't it?

Or have I got this wrong and good players aren't expected to do well in finals?

Didn't MO score in every final he played in except the Uefa cup final? (Assisted Gerrard I think).
Had a few MOM performances too.

I agree with you, and if we lose a final, more often than not Mo's name would be the first out of my mouth over who underperformed.

But while we're winning, and people pick up the slack for him, i'm ok.

 

[Modo]

Finals played for Liverpool and completing more than 45 minutes 4 and won 4.

Finals played for Liverpool and completed less 45 minutes 1 and won 0.

There’s your fucking stats. And your mongy thread.

OK, I think I got it. Salah only needs to show up in finals. His performance doesn't really matter.

 

[Modo]

I agree with you, and if we lose a final, more often than not Mo's name would be the first out of my mouth over who underperformed.

But while we're winning, and people pick up the slack for him, i'm ok.

Obviously. I'm just saying that he hasn't played well. And I don't buy that the excuse that it's OK that he doesn't perform well.

 

[Fabio]

Obviously. I'm just saying that he hasn't played well. And I don't buy that the excuse that it's OK that he doesn't perform well.

I'd agree with you. I can just overlook it a bit when we win.

 

[Modo]

I'd agree with you. I can just overlook it a bit when we win.

I get that. A win is a win. I'm not saying that we should start benching Salah in finals. I just found it weird that he's basically been a '6' in every final he's played in for LFC.
Also I wouldn't call it cherry picking when I'm looking at all finals.

 

[MomoWASright]

OK, I think I got it. Salah only needs to show up in finals. His performance doesn't really matter.

Ooooooo Alison has never done anything in finals let’s play Adrian instead he saved a pen once.

Klopp has never done anything at the foot of the table let’s get Wagner in.

It’s a stupid thing to say. Partly because it’s a small sample size. Secondly because it’s probably the best player in the world right now and the point you are alluding too is that he shouldn’t play in a final. Yea let’s drop Salah for Minamino in the champions league final. Sound.

 

[Fabio]

Ooooooo Alison has never done anything in finals let’s play Adrian instead he saved a pen once.

Klopp has never done anything at the foot of the table let’s get Wagner in.

It’s a stupid thing to say. Partly because it’s a small sample size. Secondly because it’s probably the best player in the world right now and the point you are alluding too is that he shouldn’t play in a final. Yea let’s drop Salah for Minamino in the champions league final. Sound.

I don't think he's saying Salah shouldn't play; more questioning why his performances in finals tend to be a bit meh.

 

[StevieM]

We’ve generally been shite overall in every final we’ve played in under Klopp - but then we’ve generally had strong opposition.

 

[moron]

Salah was scaring the shit out of Real until Ramos did his judo/karate move on him and changed the direction of the game

Thats very true but since then he does not come alive much in finals. I thought Mane and Diaz were mega threatning and have a much higher work rate.

However, all things considered, that CL final we won was just that, a win and a performance from the team to forget about. No one really did themselves any favours in that final, all i remember is Divoks goal.

Part of me does beleive that since Ramos injury, it changed Salah somewhat, maybe a slight fear of getting injured from rough cunts if he tries to be too tricky.