Sunlit Uplands

[StevieM]

It seems like it’s coming as a shock to you that for generations and generations those in power have looked after their own. Also, this has nothing to do with the fact that a blanket 5% increase across the NHS might prove massively problematic and highly damaging. I’m a huge fan of the NHS but you can’t argue it’s a paragon of efficiency.

Is it any more or any less efficient since the likes of market forces, competitive tendering, procurement strategies and profit have been added to the mix?

Honest question - I hear the whole Public Sector is wasteful thing a lot - and it is - I remember from my days working in Health Service admin - but I’m not sure the measures taken to improve it have actually achieved what was expected.

 

[dantes]

Is it any more or any less efficient since the likes of market forces, competitive tendering, procurement strategies and profit have been added to the mix?

Honest question - I hear the whole Public Sector is wasteful thing a lot - and it is - I remember from my days working in Health Service admin - but I’m not sure the measures taken to improve it have actually achieved what was expected.

Competing for a government contract is the total antithesis to competing for market share. The latter drives you to make better products that meet the needs of the customers. The former drives you to corruption.

 

[Grjt2]

Is it any more or any less efficient since the likes of market forces, competitive tendering, procurement strategies and profit have been added to the mix?

Honest question - I hear the whole Public Sector is wasteful thing a lot - and it is - I remember from my days working in Health Service admin - but I’m not sure the measures taken to improve it have actually achieved what was expected.

I honestly don’t know. I would bet if anything it’s probably worse

 

[StevieM]

Competing for a government contract is the total antithesis to competing for market share. The latter drives you to make better products that meet the needs of the customers. The former drives you to corruption.

Both lead to corruption - it just depends which provider or supplier you have shares in.

 

[dantes]

Both lead to corruption - it just depends which provider or supplier you have shares in.

Yes they do. But one can be litigated in a court of law and terrible vengeance served upon thee, whilst the other is above the law and the only thing you get served is a slap in the face with the 2359 page taxpayer funded public inquiry and a list of "lessons learned".

 

[StevieM]

Yes they do. But one can be litigated in a court of law and terrible vengeance served upon thee, whilst the other is above the law and the only thing you get served is a slap in the face with the 2359 page taxpayer funded public inquiry and a list of "lessons learned".

Well no - because the companies fearful of terrible vengeance by litigation will simply pay lawyers lots to avoid the actual vengeance part, and whatever they have to pay they’ll recoup in additional costs to customer and carry on regardless.

The taxpayer funded thing won’t work because... same companies will grease the wheels another way to avoid actual liability.

All it boils down to is protecting the shareholders (which companies are supposed to do) and certain people creating enough smoke and mirrors so that everyone is blaming the wrong thing or people, while the real bad guys get away with it.

If you want to go all “Dantes doomsayer”... we sealed our own fate the minute continued return on investment became the driving force on a world with finite resources.

 

[Aidan O' Neill]

It seems like it’s coming as a shock to you that for generations and generations those in power have looked after their own. Also, this has nothing to do with the fact that a blanket 5% increase across the NHS might prove massively problematic and highly damaging. I’m a huge fan of the NHS but you can’t argue it’s a paragon of efficiency.

It doesn't come as a shock to me. I know it has been going on as long as Governments have existed (although this current iteration of the Tories seem especially bad). That doesn't make it right or mean that people shouldn't want or expect better. Coming from Ireland the NHS is 10 times better than what we have here and it seems that like the HSE here the NHS issues with efficiency are not down to the medical staff but more so middle management.

 

[Aidan O' Neill]

No not a majority, it wouldn't matter which set of cunts were in charge so long as all the MP's on all sides were brexiteers, and that none of them gave a fuck about Ireland's financially unimportant feelings about the sea border.

So the Brexiteers would have gotten a better deal? The deal was finalised under Johnson's majority Government..and it was shit.

 

[Grjt2]

It doesn't come as a shock to me. I know it has been going on as long as Governments have existed (although this current iteration of the Tories seem especially bad). That doesn't make it right or mean that people shouldn't want or expect better. Coming from Ireland the NHS is 10 times better than what we have here and it seems that like the HSE here the NHS issues with efficiency are not down to the medical staff but more so middle management.

You’re all over the place here mate. The Irish health system has for ages been held up as overtly “two tiered” (20% of beds available for private patients?) and is cited as what the UK shouldn’t do (but what Boris wants to go for) of increasing private coverage and the death of universal coverage for all.

 

[dantes]

So the Brexiteers would have gotten a better deal? The deal was finalised under Johnson's majority Government..and it was shit.

The deal he didn't even read? Yep. A we win you lose deal was the one May should have negotiated. She agreed (thanks to the dissenting MP's she had to appease, or just her plain stupidity) she agreed to negotiate their money first, and our trade second. That's why it was shit. When the racist fat fuck Boris came in, hindered by that negotiating order, no deal was by far the best deal left to play for. He fucked that up again to appease the MP's.

 

[Aidan O' Neill]

And that's all because if woke voters? What we win, you lose deal do you think anybody in the UK could have negotiated?

 

[Aidan O' Neill]

You’re all over the place here mate. The Irish health system has for ages been held up as overtly “two tiered” (20% of beds available for private patients?) and is cited as what the UK shouldn’t do (but what Boris wants to go for) of increasing private coverage and the death of universal coverage for all.

I'm not really. You just seem to not be able to understand a simple sentence. I'm saying as inefficient as you say the NHS is it's a lot better than what we have here. Money spent on doctors and nurses would be good money spent. Billions on a non working track and trace sending money into Tory donors hand is bad money spent. It's not that hard.

 

[dantes]

And that's all because if woke voters? What we win, you lose deal do you think anybody in the UK could have negotiated?

Yes. We ran a trade deficit with them, an incompetent retard could win that negotiation when you're the one about to stop giving the monies to them. Regulations on the border? Don't give a shit, you want to put up a border be our guest, see how it works out for you. Rules on free travel and students? Lol fuck them, cunts, like we care. Rules on fishing rights? Hahaha now you're just taking the piss, are you serious right now? You really think we give a shit? Rules on us not undercutting their taxes? Hahaha get the fuck outta here, what you think this is? Health and safety regulations on imported goods? Here's our offer for that, you can take the money, if not we'll keep the money and do it ourselves, or just do away with it altogether. Single market? Here's our list of tariffs, so go fuck yourselves. It's not that hard to negotiate when you're the one with the money at stake. It became hard because the woke voters elected remoaners and then whined and whined about these unimportant things that somehow became a reason for us to give up the money. So now they can remain poor, get woke go broke.

 

[Grjt2]

I'm not really. You just seem to not be able to understand a simple sentence. I'm saying as inefficient as you say the NHS is it's a lot better than what we have here. Money spent on doctors and nurses would be good money spent. Billions on a non working track and trace sending money into Tory donors hand is bad money spent. It's not that hard.

That’s exactly how I imagine they made that decision. 5% increase to the “frontline workers” (however that is defined or administrated) or spend it on a tracing app. Like I said right at the start, naive.

 

[Woland]

Now that is naive

 

[Aidan O' Neill]

Yes. We ran a trade deficit with them, an incompetent retard could win that negotiation when you're the one about to stop giving the monies to them. Regulations on the border? Don't give a shit, you want to put up a border be our guest, see how it works out for you. Rules on free travel and students? Lol fuck them, cunts, like we care. Rules on fishing rights? Hahaha now you're just taking the piss, are you serious right now? You really think we give a shit? Rules on us not undercutting their taxes? Hahaha get the fuck outta here, what you think this is? Health and safety regulations on imported goods? Here's our offer for that, you can take the money, if not we'll keep the money and do it ourselves, or just do away with it altogether. Single market? Here's our list of tariffs, so go fuck yourselves. It's not that hard to negotiate when you're the one with the money at stake. It became hard because the woke voters elected remoaners and then whined and whined about these unimportant things that somehow became a reason for us to give up the money. So now they can remain poor, get woke go broke.

Yeah the entirety of the EU would take all that? In terms of "go fuck yourself" no deal would be far worse for Britain than the EU.

 

[Aidan O' Neill]

That’s exactly how I imagine they made that decision. 5% increase to the “frontline workers” (however that is defined or administrated) or spend it on a tracing app. Like I said right at the start, naive.

Haha. As if that was the comparison. That's the most naive sentence in the whole thread.

 

[Grjt2]

Haha. As if that was the comparison. That's the most naive sentence in the whole thread.

They were literally the two sentences in your last post ace. Unless you are actually just listing things that are good and bad randomly? In which case - cool. Yes, abuse of government funds is bad, and nurses are good. We agree.

 

[Aidan O' Neill]

Yep, but you ignored the part where you incorrectly said I was "all over the place" you misread my sentences". I said if they didn't do one they could have had money for the other, you said you think they weighed it up that way and that's how they chose, which is you know definitely not how it played out.

 

[Grjt2]

Apologies, what? So I needed to write That’s exactly how I imagine they made that decision (heavy sarcasm) to make it clearer? For fucks sake

 

[Aidan O' Neill]

Apologies for missing your typed sarcasm but given everything else you had said was nonsense it's not a massive leap to assume you meant it.

 

[Grjt2]

So a blanket 5% increase across the NHS might prove massively problematic and highly damaging is “nonsense” but your “just pay them it’s better than Ireland” position and seeming inability to read isn’t? Gotcha. My bad. I know it’s easier to just agree on these things, I should have done that. I find myself increasingly frustrated by arm chair warriors who say “why can’t we just…” as if these solutions are simple. They aren’t. Anyway, this has already wasted an inordinate amount of time. So like I said, nurses are ace, and I’m a huge fan of the NHS.

 

[Delinquent]

They associated the referendum with racism, bemoaned the racist country, wah wah wah (all total nonsense invented in their woke heads). Then, instead of making an objective economical decision when May called the snap election, they instead took the chance to vote for every anti-brexit minister under The Lying Rag, shoved their arses into parliament, and the clusterfuck with passing an agreement through them and the irish terrorists played out the way it did resulting in what you see now. Fucked everyone's lives and the entire country up royally, buy hey ho at least they took a "stand" against the racist old white people and virtue signalled their love for immigrants the have never given a shit about before or since. Took the stand. Now they're taking the knee. Always taking something. One day they will take my vengeance.

That reads like a Joe Biden ramble.

 

[jon545660]

 

[Woland]

 

[Athens]

 

[StevieM]

Apparently Fergal Sharky is one of the foremost campaigners for clean rivers, etc in the UK - listened to an interview with him the other day.

That man has a good heart... which these days is hard to find.

 

[Athens]

Apparently Fergal Sharky is one of the foremost campaigners for clean rivers, etc in the UK - listened to an interview with him the other day.

That man has a good heart... which these days is hard to find.

Yeah, he reminds me of my perfect cousin.

 

[StevieM]

Yeah, he reminds me of my perfect cousin.

I wonder how he got his kicks as a teenager... and whether they were hard to find?

 

[Lippy]

So now the man who said there'd be no food shortages post Brexit is heading up a task force to fix the post Brexit food shortages. The irony.