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Sunlit Uplands

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LarryHagman said:
Say what you like about Brown and Blair, the obvious critique being Blair's Iraq 'crusade'. But, in terms of personal progression, public well-being and feel-good, level of public service and practically anything else that moves the country forward, the years 1996-2008 (GFC) were halcyon days.

How will history judge 2010-2024? I think we all know the answer to that one.

I have a certain (very small) amount of sympathy for Sunak. Here's a progressive Tory who hates Johnson, would rather Brexit had never happened (same for Hunt but neither would ever admit it), is looking to move the country in a certain direction ... but is also a man who was complicit in a lot of the BS that enveloped the country since 2016. Trying to convince people that his administration is a clean slate and the decimation of the country is nothing to do with him is complete bollocks. But, you know, some (lots) will buy it.
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Sunak has a very Blairish way about him. A great act of well studied sincerity for things he doesn't give a fuck about. Almost plausible. The difference is that Blair was riding in on John Smith’s coattails and had Brown coming up with real progressive policies, where Sunak is following several of the worst prime minister's ever, surrounded by a mix of pond life, vampires and thieves, while his entire party is in a worse mess than a vet's bin. Fuck him.
 
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Tories getting absolutely pummelled in the local elections.

Things you love to see right now.

Tory heartlands turning their backs on them too. First time since 2000 there has been NOC in my area. All gone to Independent candidates.
 
Bunch of councils here in Kent experiencing first non Tory controlled councils. In my locality, the students aren't really even around right now (who massively reinforce the Labour vote). Happy times. -958 Tory councillors and counting....
 
I don’t normally delve into politics as most of them are the same but the current Tories are abysmal. Voters have been fcuked over by Brexit and such utter ineptitude that even the loons at the Telegraph and Daily Mail are having the devil’s own job trying to explain this.
 
Red Bird said:
I don’t normally delve into politics as most of them are the same but the current Tories are abysmal. Voters have been fcuked over by Brexit and such utter ineptitude that even the loons at the Telegraph and Daily Mail are having the devil’s own job trying to explain this.
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Daily Mail is trying to bury it.. Full on coronation mode now.
 
Red Bird said:
I don’t normally delve into politics as most of them are the same but the current Tories are abysmal. Voters have been fcuked over by Brexit and such utter ineptitude that even the loons at the Telegraph and Daily Mail are having the devil’s own job trying to explain this.
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Even right back to early 70s. Even in NOC councils tories have had the majority here.

No more. Crazy.
 
Ukip have no council seats at all.

They'll still probably be invited onto TV shows.
 
doctor_mac said:
Bunch of councils here in Kent experiencing first non Tory controlled councils. In my locality, the students aren't really even around right now (who massively reinforce the Labour vote). Happy times. -958 Tory councillors and counting....
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Yes. There are only 2 Tory controlled councils in Kent now out of 14.

I am guessing some others will still up with Tories in charge but NOC, but we'll see. It's definitely a big change.
 
Red Bird said:
I don’t normally delve into politics as most of them are the same but the current Tories are abysmal. Voters have been fcuked over by Brexit and such utter ineptitude that even the loons at the Telegraph and Daily Mail are having the devil’s own job trying to explain this.
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The previous set of voters are the ones the that brought Brexit and 13yrs of Tories. Even a financial crisis Brown led gov was 100 times more capable of this useless lot.
 
Amidst the change though it's still frightening the support the Tories somehow retain. How on Earth are these people happy with what they've had? There's no way that Labour will claw back the lead that the Tories have at the next GE. So the best hope is a Labour-Lib coalition hence this week's speculations and non-rebuttals. Either way, with Starmer at the helm, it will probably be more or less the same as-is but with a few more smiley faces involved. Great. This country needs a return-to-factory reset, literally. Plus, proportional rep at the first opportunity to avoid future Buffoons (or a return of the original one).
 
People seem to support political parties the same way they support football teams, through thick and thin.
 
LarryHagman said:
Amidst the change though it's still frightening the support the Tories somehow retain. How on Earth are these people happy with what they've had? There's no way that Labour will claw back the lead that the Tories have at the next GE. So the best hope is a Labour-Lib coalition hence this week's speculations and non-rebuttals. Either way, with Starmer at the helm, it will probably be more or less the same as-is but with a few more smiley faces involved. Great. This country needs a return-to-factory reset, literally. Plus, proportional rep at the first opportunity to avoid future Buffoons (or a return of the original one).
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Well, the recent elections were obviously local ones. Although a lot of people would have voted on national issues and voted against the Tories, a lot of other people may well have been happy with their local Tory council, so gave their vote to the Tories locally. Had it been a general election, the figures could well have been worse for the Tories.

It would have been a similar story when national polls gave the Tories a lead and Labour were in a mess. Some people would have voted Labour locally even then.

So local elections are not always the best indicator, they are just the only one we have.

That aside though, yes, there will still be millions of people who will vote Tory at the next election, whenever it comes. I doubt many will feel that the government has been amazing, let’s be honest, but I imagine some people will always vote Tory come what may, some people simply would never vote Labour, and the majority of people don’t really pay a lot of attention from month to month, just get on with their lives and vote accordingly.

I would be shocked if we end up with PR. If a party gets a majority then they definitely won’t change the system, and if there is a coalition then the largest party won’t want to change it either, given that the last time there was a coalition the largest party ended up with a majority the next time and the smaller party was destroyed.

If Labour end up as the largest party then they may actually just govern as a minority anyway and assume that the Lib Dems, SNP, Greens etc would never side with the Tories against them.
 
Labour lost nine of seventy councillors to the lib dems and independents in the recent locals in Liverpool, and if it was a reflection on performance should have been much worse for them. The corruption of the last decade has been awful for the city but it's only talked about in the abstract.

The tories have got a massive advantage across the nation as there are millons of dicks who believe the non doms who own their newspapers, and an aging demographic who want everyone under fifty to starve, and believe the whole economy is a zero sum game.

PR does seem like an impossible dream. Anyone who gains power wants it all, despite it getting us into this mess.

Thirty odd percent of people still think brexit was a good idea. Admitting mistakes isn't a fully functional part of the human condition. At least chatgpt says sorry when you correct it. Maybe it'll be standing in next year's GE.
 
Woland said:
Labour lost nine of seventy councillors to the lib dems and independents in the recent locals in Liverpool, and if it was a reflection on performance should have been much worse for them. The corruption of the last decade has been awful for the city but it's only talked about in the abstract.
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Is the opposition any good though? It's hard to assess because of boundary changes but it could be that Labour was so far ahead that the negative vote on Council performance would never outweigh those who vote on national issues.
 
Tories could never make good here, and the lib dems lost a lot of possible ground because of the coalition that led to all this stupid austerity. Imagine that govt would have spent a fraction of the pretend covid money on infrastructure projects in 2010 instead of allowing everywhere outside of the M25 get poorer than ex soviet states.

Labour being rewarded for failure locally doesn't do anyone any good. There's only a limit to what councils can do with ever diminishing budgets, but giving loads of bullshit contracts to your family and friends, so that noone will invest here for foreseeable is unforgivable.
 
I was a middle manager in local government in 2007 (moved to Oz for 12 years), I'm now a senior manager in 2023. The difference in operating model is incredible. The austerity grant cuts have been crippling. Cleverest thing the Tories ever did.
Any chance we get, yes we'll raise council tax by the max. Have to. Pass any planning application? Yes please, we need to. Reduction in service, of course. Fill a benefit form in - used to be 2 week lead time, now probably 4 or 5 months.
For the Tories, this is 'draining the swamp' of public service overspend, in the real world, it's crap service.
And the vitriol is blamed at a local level, not centrally where the cuts are actually made.
I don't work for the Authority where I live. They spend 91% of their budget on social care, highest in the UK, so potholes and bins can get fucked.
Public services have never been worse.
 
Who are these people defending The Buffoon? I mean, what scenario could you buy into where you STILL think Boris Johnson is a viable proposition for British politics?

Honestly. Fuck me. These people are out there in their masses. It's insane.

The country (the World) is mental, I don't care what anyone says. We need a factory reset, I don't trust anyone anymore, there's too many lunatics about masquerading as normals.
 
The trouble with the idea of "a factory reset" is that those directing it would be equally lunatic, with a sizeable side order of megalomania.
 
LarryHagman said:
Who are these people defending The Buffoon? I mean, what scenario could you buy into where you STILL think Boris Johnson is a viable proposition for British politics?

Honestly. Fuck me. These people are out there in their masses. It's insane.

The country (the World) is mental, I don't care what anyone says. We need a factory reset, I don't trust anyone anymore, there's too many lunatics about masquerading as normals.
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A new world order you say?
 
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