Tottenham Riots

[Shadey]

Is this another rodney king situation?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/blog/2011/aug/07/tottenham-riots-police-duggan-live

They've burnt an aldi store down rapaged through pc world & JD sports

 

[Portly]

It's nice weather for rioting. Let's hope for a spot of rain and it will all die down. 🙂

 

[Spionkop69]

Rodney King situation? Doubt it very much.

 

[singlerider]

Appaz the flashpoint was during the (up until then peaceful) protest, when a bunch of coppers laid into a 16 year old girl:

BBC News: Explosive Eye Witness Account - Tottenham Riots, UK

 

[monsieurdantes]

It seems like while the stupid kids were rioting some older people helped themselves to a new tv and laptop. lol at least nobody died and they managed to outdo the student protests

what can you do. if you go around instigating this sort of madness in the middle east and north african countries, you have to expect that it will give ideas to your own population

 

[Spionkop69]

[quote author=singlerider link=topic=46360.msg1375751#msg1375751 date=1312725270]
Appaz the flashpoint was during the (up until then peaceful) protest, when a bunch of coppers laid into a 16 year old girl:

BBC News: Explosive Eye Witness Account - Tottenham Riots, UK
[/quote]

Yeah cos the people who were running around looting and setting fire to things were waiting for that...

Oh and of course, all the pc cunts will have the 16 yr old as a poor innocent and the police as brutal thugs before a shred of "credible" evidence is presented. Strangely, a black community leader from Tottenham was on the Beeb this morning condemning the violence, and also saying that the boy who was shot by the police was well known as a gun toting villain who had terrrorised the same neighbourhood the rioters were "peacefully" protesting in.

Sounds like he got what he deserved. I'd love a Giuliani type to come to London and rid us of the cancer that is these gang hoodlums who think they can run neighbourhoods without impunity.

 

[singlerider]

It sounds like there were a few people there from outside of Tottenham, either come in for the ruck or to try and make off with shit.

I can understand people being angry at deaths in custody - it's more common than is acceptable, and never really makes the news - I never heard any mainstream news outlet mention the death of Smiley Culture earlier this year, which was an absolute travesty.

However, all this has done is fuck up Tottenham and ruin local peoples' lives. It's bang out of order. I suspect much of it stems not from the actual incident, but rather latent anger within society at how fucked up things are.

I suppose my point being - the riots are fucked up, and inexcusable - however, the fact that they have happened does not in retrospect justify the actions of the police (and I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if what that chap said was true). The rest of them were just up for the ruck - but I guess that's what you get when the Tories are in power eh?

😉

 

[Shadey]

[quote author=Spionkop69 link=topic=46360.msg1375744#msg1375744 date=1312724711]
Rodney King situation? Doubt it very much.
[/quote] it was a slite egsaduration spion lad

 

[Woland]

[quote author=Krump link=topic=41429.msg1154138#msg1154138 date=1281781472]
Remember this time last year? I went down to Spurs... Not only was it fucking awful but they shut the tube and you had to walk for miles listening to the bastards celebrate like they'd won the league. And another fucking thing.... If them cockneys want to sing 'sign on' to me without irony in their voice they can fuck off. I mean Spurs is one of the most rancid parts of the world and it costs the same for one of their stinking little rabbit hutches that has a single benefit of being close to Seven Sisters... so that you can escape Calcutta... that's it, the sole benefit, the leading light on the estate agents form is that you can fuck off quickly... it costs the same for one of those studio flat dumps with a two hob cooker with fucking pubes on it, as it does for a four bedroom detached on the coast here. Which fucking weirdos would want that?
[/quote]

 

[Spionkop69]

[quote author=singlerider link=topic=46360.msg1375814#msg1375814 date=1312730684]
It sounds like there were a few people there from outside of Tottenham, either come in for the ruck or to try and make off with shit.

I can understand people being angry at deaths in custody - it's more common than is acceptable, and never really makes the news - I never heard any mainstream news outlet mention the death of Smiley Culture earlier this year, which was an absolute travesty.

However, all this has done is fuck up Tottenham and ruin local peoples' lives. It's bang out of order. I suspect much of it stems not from the actual incident, but rather latent anger within society at how fucked up things are.

I suppose my point being - the riots are fucked up, and inexcusable - however, the fact that they have happened does not in retrospect justify the actions of the police (and I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if what that chap said was true). The rest of them were just up for the ruck - but I guess that's what you get when the Tories are in power eh?

😉
[/quote]

Smiley Culture? The bloke who was mentioned in many different newspapers who died plunging a knife into himself during a police raid where they found drugs?

That Smiley Culture?

Oh and people up for a ruck in Tottenham? That's every Sat night, Tories or no Tories 😉

 

[Richey]

So a known criminal shoots at police and they shoot back. Good. And that is a reason to go out burning things, smashing things up and stealing TVs? Can't really see the logic there to be honest.

And people complain about the old bill turning up in huge numbers at demos - well no wonder when they end up like this?

 

[Spionkop69]

[quote author=Richey link=topic=46360.msg1376014#msg1376014 date=1312752774]
So a known criminal shoots at police and they shoot back. Good. And that is a reason to go out burning things, smashing things up and stealing TVs? Can't really see the logic there to be honest.

And people complain about the old bill turning up in huge numbers at demos - well no wonder when they end up like this?
[/quote]

But he's not a known criminal Rich, he's just a misunderstood depressed bloke...according to his close associates.

Yeah like I believe that load of bollocks!!!

 

[Woland]

There is the small matter of the ballistics report finding that the police shot the round he was meant to have fired.

 

[Fabio]

Krump just shot this thread in the face

 

[Spionkop69]

[quote author=Krump link=topic=46360.msg1376017#msg1376017 date=1312753165]
There is the small matter of the ballistics report finding that the police shot the round he was meant to have fired.
[/quote]

Source?

 

[Woland]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/aug/07/police-attack-london-burns

 

[Richey]

Well I'm sure we'll hear the details of that in the end but either way the riot is still something of an over reaction.

Noone seemed too shocked that he was carrying a gun really, his girlfriend defended him by saying that he wasn't that bad because although he was 'known to the police he'd never been sent down', and the whole thing was a planned operation by Trident. Its not like police walk around with guns waiting to shoot people at random.

 

[Spionkop69]

[quote author=Krump link=topic=46360.msg1376021#msg1376021 date=1312753732]
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/aug/07/police-attack-london-burns
[/quote]

The Guardian understands....I see.

I'm not sure I count that as real evidence just yet.

I see no one is doubting the guy had a gun. Love his fiance's "he can't be bad, he's never been sent down" bit. So he just never got caught then? Ah ok, clearly not bad then. Not aimed at you specifically that Krump. Just fucks me off how these "soldiers" always turn it back on the old bill.

 

[Richey]

[quote author=Spionkop69 link=topic=46360.msg1376024#msg1376024 date=1312755420]


The Guardian understands....I see.

I'm not sure I count that as real evidence just yet.


[/quote]

Be fair, they paid the police good money for that evidence.

maybe.

 

[Woland]

I doubt they'd print that if they didn't know it.

And for fucks sake, look at him doing that gangsta trigger thing with his hand and just being a nob. That doesn't carry a death sentence but if you're packing and armed police pull you over then expect to get shot - but if you're the pigs and you didn't get shot at when you just killed a native, expect to get fucking rioted against too.

Anyways, I got some tweet retweeted like a billion times so I'm the winner in all this.

 

[Richey]

[quote author=Krump link=topic=46360.msg1376026#msg1376026 date=1312756397]
I doubt they'd print that if they didn't know it.

And for fucks sake, look at him doing that gangsta trigger thing with his hand and just being a nob. That doesn't carry a death sentence but if you're packing and armed police pull you over then expect to get shot - but if you're the pigs and you didn't get shot at when you just killed a native, expect to get fucking rioted against too.

Anyways, I got some tweet retweeted like a billion times so I'm the winner in all this.
[/quote]

Fair point but even if he didn't fire the gun that he was holding then would the entire community know that? All of those rioters would not have been at the scene.

 

[Woland]

My opinion, and that's all it is, is that the shooting was just the blue touch paper. This has been bubbling away for ages. Tottenham is a complete shithole and it didn't need much at all to kick it off.

 

[Richey]

Yeah I agree on all counts. I don't generally feel unsafe when I'm out and about but when I've been around there, even during the daytime it doesn't feel quite right.

I don't buy the idea that a friendly and close knit community can suddenly become a pack of rioting, looting thugs just because someone got shot. Loads of people get shot there. The difference this time is only that it was the police who did it. If the guy with the gun had gone on to shoot someone who lived there would that have resulted in a riot?

A few people saw the chance to have a go at the police and some others took the opportunity to steal. That is it.

 

[singlerider]

[quote author=Spionkop69 link=topic=46360.msg1375923#msg1375923 date=1312742911]
[quote author=singlerider link=topic=46360.msg1375814#msg1375814 date=1312730684]
It sounds like there were a few people there from outside of Tottenham, either come in for the ruck or to try and make off with shit.

I can understand people being angry at deaths in custody - it's more common than is acceptable, and never really makes the news - I never heard any mainstream news outlet mention the death of Smiley Culture earlier this year, which was an absolute travesty.

However, all this has done is fuck up Tottenham and ruin local peoples' lives. It's bang out of order. I suspect much of it stems not from the actual incident, but rather latent anger within society at how fucked up things are.

I suppose my point being - the riots are fucked up, and inexcusable - however, the fact that they have happened does not in retrospect justify the actions of the police (and I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if what that chap said was true). The rest of them were just up for the ruck - but I guess that's what you get when the Tories are in power eh?

😉
[/quote]

Smiley Culture? The bloke who was mentioned in many different newspapers who died plunging a knife into himself during a police raid where they found drugs?

That Smiley Culture?

Oh and people up for a ruck in Tottenham? That's every Sat night, Tories or no Tories 😉
[/quote]

I didn't see it widely broadcast, my bad.

However, "plunged a knife into himself during a police raid where they found drugs" - firstly there's something fishy about that story, seeing as he was supposedly making himself a cup and then just somehow ended up with a knife in him.

Secondly, if the police raided everybody on here's house, how many do you think they'd find drugs in? I don't think either of us are in a position to be using possession as a smear on someone's character, and I don't think it's as simple or easy as saying "He had drugs, he must've been doing something wrong".

Thirdly - since 1998, 333 people have died in police custody, 87 of whom were restrained, and 16 of which died due to asphyxiation caused by being restrained. Not one police officer has ever been charged with anything, even negligence.

All of that's pretty fucked IMO, but none of it justifies what's happened - the riots aren't about social justice, they're about angry people having an excuse to go on the rampage.

However, on a broader scale - more social justice = less anger = less likely to kick off

 

[singlerider]

Incidentally there are unconfirmed reports from all over that it's kicking off - Enfield, Croydon, Brixton . . .

Notice a pattern at all?

 

[Richey]

Re Smiley Culture, he was due to go on trial the following week on conspiracy to supply charges. The police found him with drugs again whilst on bail. He was basically heading straight to jail if he had not killed himself.

I saw that figure about people dying in custody too, and although I'm sure in some cases there are other circumstances (is this fella in Tottenham one of them for example?) yes it is rather high.

Regarding no police getting convicted as a result, its no huge surprise really. Even if a policeman has been at fault for a prisoner's death (and I'd maintain it would only be accidental but yes it could have happened), on one side you have a lot of people defending themselves who know the law, know the system and can use it. On the other side often the only witness is dead and if there are others they could be easily discredited, given they would more than likely be criminals.

Yes this is flawed to a degree but what alternative is there?

 

[Oncy]

[quote author=singlerider link=topic=46360.msg1376055#msg1376055 date=1312764604]
Incidentally there are unconfirmed reports from all over that it's kicking off - Enfield, Croydon, Brixton . . .

Notice a pattern at all?
[/quote]If you take the first letter of each its the ECB (English Cricket Board)?

 

[Richey]

There was a line in the paper today that struck me. The owner of the Post Office in Tottenham was saying that the people were hurting themselves because they shop in those shops and 'collect their benefits from the post office'.

Would be good if anyone identified had those benefits totally stopped until the bill for the damage and the emergency services was paid. Won't happen though, sadly.

 

[Woland]

Yeah, because nutters with no jobs and no benefits aren't going to beat old women up for money or anything are they?

 

[Richey]

Working is an option. And as luck would have it I believe lots of building sites should be setting up around that area in the near future!