Trophy Day - Car Rams Fans

[The Nomad]

Really? 🤔

Come on Brizzle. Recency bias will always play a part. Most people's first thought would be is "Was it a terrorist attack?" then second thought is "Was it something else".

Most people wait for the facts to play out though before saying anything.

But if your first thought wasn't "was it a terrorist attack" on a busy day in Liverpool. Then kudos to you my friend.

Although you found out a bit later than some.

 

[peterhague]

I think most of us thought it might be a possibility (along with several others), but didn't start spewing the usual bile and lies that this rancid cnut did...

I agree - anyone decent probably wanted it not to be the case and so naturally wouldn't speculate. Quite apart from the likelihood that it wouldn't be a Muslim anyway.

 

[peterhague]

Jesus Christ, Peter... And nor has any RW white nutjob either, right..?

I'm just saying there was probably a 10-25% or so chance of it being a Muslim. Seems dishonest to deny that.

 

[Brizzle]

Come on Brizzle. Recency bias will always play a part. Most people's first thought would be is "Was it a terrorist attack?" then second thought is "Was it something else".

Most people wait for the facts to play out though before saying anything.

But if your first thought wasn't "was it a terrorist attack" on a busy day in Liverpool. Then kudos to you my friend.

Although you found out a bit later than some.

Are muslims the only terrorists?

 

[Brizzle]

If 'recency bias' really plays a part then 2 months ago there was a car attack in Germany and the driver was just a mentally ill Germany man with no links to extremist groups. Last month there was a car attack in Vancouver and the driver was Chinese with no links to extremist groups.

Fuckin' hell.

 

[Atlas]

Are muslims the only terrorists?

Yup.

Anyone else is mental health
Loner
Etc

 

[The Nomad]

Are muslims the only terrorists?

Nope, but recency bias does play a part in most peoples minds.

 

[Atlas]

Honestly though, I prob agree slightly with Peter. Maybe it's a conditioning or whatver I dunno.

I got sent a message by (muslim) friends, and everyone's hoping it wasn't a muslim.

It sounds weird & possibly a bit sick but it's everytime some shit happens.

First thought from most muslim I know (after the usual, horrified more shit has happend) is hoping it wasn't a muslim, cos we know the usual backlash & other stuff we'll have to deal with.
Likes of Barton, Fox, Golding etc are all hoping it is a Muslim so they can continue to claim their world view, and sometimes don't bother waiting for it to be confirmed before calling for the deportation & prison for darkies everywhere.

 

[The Nomad]

If 'recency bias' really plays a part then 2 months ago there was a car attack in Germany and the driver was just a mentally ill Germany man with no links to extremist groups. Last month there was a car attack in Vancouver and the driver was Chinese with no links to extremist groups.

Fuckin' hell.

Like I said. Most people wait for the facts to be established. Those that don't have an agenda.

 

[Cleric]

Eleven people remain in hospital and all are in a stable condition and appear to be recovering well

There is a God. Probably.

 

[peterhague]

Honestly though, I prob agree slightly with Peter. Maybe it's a conditioning or whatver I dunno.

I got sent a message by (muslim) friends, and everyone's hoping it wasn't a muslim.

It sounds weird & possibly a bit sick but it's everytime some shit happens.

First thought from most muslim I know (after the usual, horrified more shit has happend) is hoping it wasn't a muslim, cos we know the usual backlash & other stuff we'll have to deal with.
Likes of Barton, Fox, Golding etc are all hoping it is a Muslim so they can continue to claim their world view, and sometimes don't bother waiting for it to be confirmed before calling for the deportation & prison for darkies everywhere.

It's a shit state of affairs isn't it. There have just been so many really vivid incidents involving Muslims so I suppose that's why it occurs to people (although maybe they're vivid because they involved Muslims because people are racist and enjoy that narrative). And obviously that stabbing thing in Southport didn't help at all - although I don't know why some crazed kid can really be considered a terrorist but whatever.

 

[Whaddapie]

Eleven people remain in hospital and all are in a stable condition and appear to be recovering well

There is a God. Probably.

A. Great news. Better than the videos suggested we could expect.
B. If there is, he's the same god who let this happen in the first place...

 

[singlerider]

My cousin's husband is on the riot squad that had to deal with the Southport thing (fortunately for him was actually off that week) and he said loads of people were wildly speculating about the fact that the perpetrator was "known to police" that it was all some big cover up and he was on the terrorist watch list or something.

When actually it was more along the lines of he'd been in and out of the care system and there'd been some violent incidents in the past...

Fuck all to do with terrorism, but cos he weren't white that's immediately where their head went.

He also said that in terms of threat level, the risk from far right extremists is way higher than Islamic 🤷

 

[Whaddapie]

My cousin's husband is on the riot squad that had to deal with the Southport thing (fortunately for him was actually off that week) and he said loads of people were wildly speculating about the fact that the perpetrator was "known to police" that it was all some big cover up and he was on the terrorist watch list or something.

When actually it was more along the lines of he'd been in and out of the care system and there'd been some violent incidents in the past...

Fuck all to do with terrorism, but cos he weren't white that's immediately where their head went.

He also said that in terms of threat level, the risk from far right extremists is way higher than Islamic 🤷

This is well known... People just don't want to accept it. It can't be 'us' - It MUST be 'them'.

(Not directed at anybody on this thread)

 

[Judge Jules]

Sorry both but, as far as the UK is concerned, unless things have changed in the last couple of years that isn't accurate. There was a debate in Parliament in 2023 in which a Govt.minister (Lord Somebody, not an MP from the Commons) stated that recent terrorist threats were 67% Islamic and 33% far right. I remember being surprised that the percentages were that far apart.

 

[The Nomad]

Sorry both but, as far as the UK is concerned, unless things have changed in the last couple of years that isn't accurate. There was a debate in Parliament in 2023 in which a Govt.minister (Lord Somebody, not an MP from the Commons) stated that recent terrorist threats were 67% Islamic and 33% far right. I remember being surprised that the percentages were that far apart.

https://hansard.parliament.uk/Lords/2023-07-24/debates/03C258B1-5D37-4875-A575-204A0BFE9766/ContestUKStrategyForCounteringTerrorism2023#:~:text=It%20accounts%20for%2067%25%20of,quarter%20of%20the%20MI5%20caseload.

 

[Whaddapie]

To be clear - I wasn't - I'm referring to just the threat of being attacked / shot / run over, etc... by anybody out there. I wasn't sticking to the definition of 'terrorism', when I posted that. And I'm right.

Over here, at least. Apologies, may have over-reached with the 'world-wide' bit.

 

[Brizzle]

Sorry both but, as far as the UK is concerned, unless things have changed in the last couple of years that isn't accurate. There was a debate in Parliament in 2023 in which a Govt.minister (Lord Somebody, not an MP from the Commons) stated that recent terrorist threats were 67% Islamic and 33% far right. I remember being surprised that the percentages were that far apart.

Some of this will be because if things aren't terror related (i.e. this) then it doesn't hit the statistics.

 

[Fabio]

The media has helped build this narrative that the only terrorists are Muslim. Easier to paint a bad guy when it's a core belief/value that differs from their target audience, rather than something like mental health, or anything else.

I consider myself quite sensible, but my first thought was "I hope it wasn't a Muslim".

 

[singlerider]

Sorry both but, as far as the UK is concerned, unless things have changed in the last couple of years that isn't accurate. There was a debate in Parliament in 2023 in which a Govt.minister (Lord Somebody, not an MP from the Commons) stated that recent terrorist threats were 67% Islamic and 33% far right. I remember being surprised that the percentages were that far apart.

I'm just going by what he said they get briefed on.

Perhaps at a tactical level rather than strategic it's what's more immediate?

I guess it would make sense that it's more the likes of MI5 dealing with that sort of thing as opposed to the riot squad?

 

[Whaddapie]

The media has helped build this narrative that the only terrorists are Muslim. Easier to paint a bad guy when it's a core belief/value that differs from their target audience, rather than something like mental health, or anything else.

I consider myself quite sensible, but my first thought was "I hope it wasn't a Muslim".

I think you've described most of us there, horse... Nothing wrong with that, imho.

It's the people who already 'know' it was a Muslim, mere seconds after the news broke that are the problem.

 

[SaRed]

First time in Liverpool. Only came for the parade.
We came up the road a few minutes before it all happened.
Only found when we started getting messages to check we're okay.
Glad there's no fatalities and minimal serious injuries. All that trauma though for all those people because of one dickhead.

 

[Beamrider]

Funnily enough, my first thought was to hope that it wasn't an Evertonian, because we could really do without a load of shit flaring up between us and them.

 

[The Nomad]

Funnily enough, my first thought was to hope that it wasn't an Evertonian, because we could really do without a load of shit flaring up between us and them.

They haven't released if/who he supports.

 

[peterhague]

I'm just going by what he said they get briefed on.

Perhaps at a tactical level rather than strategic it's what's more immediate?

I guess it would make sense that it's more the likes of MI5 dealing with that sort of thing as opposed to the riot squad?

That would make sense. I know a couple of ex-coppers and they say the only times they've genuinely feared for their lives have been policing BNP/EDL type rallies.

 

[tombrown]

The media has helped build this narrative that the only terrorists are Muslim. Easier to paint a bad guy when it's a core belief/value that differs from their target audience, rather than something like mental health, or anything else.

I consider myself quite sensible, but my first thought was "I hope it wasn't a Muslim".

There is a significant difference between "I hope it wasn't a Muslim" and "thought it was quite likely to be one" as another poster had it earlier in this thread (and assumed most of us thought that)

If I'm honest I didn't think about the Muslim part, per se, but I did hope it wasn't a non white person, as it was obvious that would stoke up all sorts of misguided racist bollocks. That does not mean I though it was likely to be a non white.

 

[peterhague]

There is a significant difference between "I hope it wasn't a Muslim" and "thought it was quite likely to be one" as another poster had it earlier in this thread (and assumed most of us thought that)

If I'm honest I didn't think about the Muslim part, per se, but I did hope it wasn't a non white person, as it was obvious that would stoke up all sorts of misguided racist bollocks. That does not mean I though it was likely to be a non white.

I could be wrong but I think that other poster subsequently clarified that they meant it was somewhat likely, ie 10-25% probability, and therefore that it was hardly difficult to understand why some people might jump to the conclusion that it definitely was.

 

[Whaddapie]

I could be wrong but I think that other poster subsequently clarified that they meant it was somewhat likely, ie 10-25% probability, and therefore that it was hardly difficult to understand why some people might jump to the conclusion that it definitely was.

Peter, if it's 25% likely (at best, in your own words), that means it's 75% (at least) UNlikely... That's THREE times LESS likely to me a Muslim than a white person. So, respectfully, anybody who can look at those odds, and still be convinced that it's going to be a Muslim when it's confirmed, they have an agenda.

 

[peterhague]

Peter, if it's 25% likely (at best, in your own words), that means it's 75% (at least) UNlikely... That's THREE times LESS likely to me a Muslim than a white person. So, respectfully, anybody who can look at those odds, and still be convinced that it's going to be a Muslim when it's confirmed, they have an agenda.

Yeah but it wouldn't be shocking that they thought that. It would just make them somewhat bigoted. The way you were writing was as if such a conclusion was totally baffling - as if they'd said the perpetrator must be say, a Sikh, or a mechanical engineer.

People thinking it was a Muslim is totally understandable.

 

[Fabio]

There is a significant difference between "I hope it wasn't a Muslim" and "thought it was quite likely to be one" as another poster had it earlier in this thread (and assumed most of us thought that)

If I'm honest I didn't think about the Muslim part, per se, but I did hope it wasn't a non white person, as it was obvious that would stoke up all sorts of misguided racist bollocks. That does not mean I though it was likely to be a non white.

There's a difference, but ultimately we both went to "Muslim" rather than anything else. Just different sides of the fence. That's media training in a way