VVD Ban

[mark1975]

I'm finding the whole thing perplexing really. Officials can fuck up and inadvertently have a negative effect on a team, yet they aren't really punished for it. Are they?

So the game goes, Trent gets pushed and it's an obvious foul, nothing gets given, Trent reacts, gets a yellow. Head goes, fucks up for the goal, crowd are up and think the game has been gifted to them so they get on the oppositions case causing mistakes, VVD gets his marching orders for a rash tackle and rightly argues back about the earlier officiating that started the whole chain of events. Now gets ban reviewed and extended.

What happened to the ref over the Trent push?

I know the rules, the players know the rules, but they're basically being told to walk the line and keep quiet, when there's been clear and obvious errors. How do you not react? Surely if the FA retrospectively extend bans, they should retrospectively consider the circumstances and reason (as in this case) for the reaction.

The whole system is fucked. I mean, it used to be on pitch officials who would naturally get it wrong, some more than others, now we throw more people in the mix, so called better technology and what's the outcome? The technology is great for interpreting measurable faults, but it's still a panel, in a room, who can't improve on the interpretation with any consistency.

What gives?

 

[Woland]

I knew he'd get an extra game and I'm a dickhead who doesn't follow footy laws too closely. He overstepped the line by about ten or twenty seconds, that much was obvious. His fault.

 

[Modo]

A worse case of injustice is that they didn't rescind that yellow card Wolves manager Gary O'Neill got as a result of that bullshit call against Man U.

 

[Hansern]

Its laughable to give Virgil one more game though. Even if he was on the pitch longer than he was supposed to and even though he swore.
It happens in nearly every game, and this is guaranteed to be the only one were a player is punished all season.

As for Trents yellow card. Its extremely poor officiating. If the ref gives the free kick for the shove on Trent then none of this happens. Blatant free kick.

The worst for all these decisions is the inconsistency. But what can you expect. The "best" league in the World has the worst officiating standard.

 

[The Nomad]

In any other sport he'd have arguably got a longer ban.

There should be more transparency from the officials for sure. And more action taken if they get something wrong.. like in other sports.

 

[Richey]

It all seems a little overly fussy to me.

If the offence itself is swearing, having a go at the ref etc then sure, that's always gonna be in the report, and no way around it.

If he's already off for something else, and has a go after that then there's probably no need to take it further, is there? He's already been sent off.

Assuming he actually did apologise afterwards then it just seems a bit petty to include it.

I mean, it's not really the end of the World but it does just add to the opinion that refs are cunts.

 

[Brizzle]

There is no point using whataboutery at things that happened before they changed the laws to try and bring more discipline back into the game. He crossed the line and owned his mistake. I think the biggest test of this will be consistency - and I wonder whether it will apply to dissent around other decisions i.e. fouls / pens not given etc.

If they bring this in consistently, its a positive to the game in my view. However I don't have a huge amount of hope that it will be implemented well.

 

[Woland]

Wolves are wank anyway

 

[Fabio]

I don't think anyone could argue in good faith that he didn't deserve the extra game.

There's other issues and consistency problems with the refs, but this they've got correct

 

[mark1975]

I don't think anyone could argue in good faith that he didn't deserve the extra game.

There's other issues and consistency problems with the refs, but this they've got correct

I agree, that by the book it's right. My problem with it is based on the poor officiating that culminated in it. We've seen it in other games, where refs have let poor tackles go, then punished us for lesser fouls, then thrown the book at us for reacting. If they retrospectively find that the ref has fucked up, then they should retrospectively review the impact that has. But whatever, I'm just irked (still) that something so fucking blatant, that everyone could see, was not given (the push on Trent).

What irks me even more was every bellend pundit saying it was a poor decision, and then in the next breath saying that Trent should have walked for the subsequent foul on that Evertonian prick.

 

[Irishanfield]

When does mouthing off and insulting the ref ever change his decision.
Yes the ref made a few bad decisions early on but that doesn't change the fact that Vvd shouldnt have done what he did. Was a stupid challenge end of... Was it a red? Possibly, you'd be shouting for one if it happened to us...

 

[Irishanfield]

I agree, that by the book it's right. My problem with it is based on the poor officiating that culminated in it. We've seen it in other games, where refs have let poor tackles go, then punished us for lesser fouls, then thrown the book at us for reacting. If they retrospectively find that the ref has fucked up, then they should retrospectively review the impact that has. But whatever, I'm just irked (still) that something so fucking blatant, that everyone could see, was not given (the push on Trent).

What irks me even more was every bellend pundit saying it was a poor decision, and then in the next breath saying that Trent should have walked for the subsequent foul on that Evertonian prick.

Yes it was a blatant push on trent and how the ref didn't see that I'll never understand but still he was being petulant throwing the ball away..
The everton prick went down easily looking to get trent sent off but still wtf was trent doing that to make it easy to fall down like he was closelined.. Because he got booked for the first offence he was lucky to not be sent off. The ref was terrible all game as he refused to book any Newcastle players who were constantly fouling in that 2nd half trying to break up play...

 

[bluebell]

The PL clubs could change things if they wanted to. Unless they think refereeing the England is an issue, nothing isn't gonna change.
Here's what I would do.

Pay referees £100k plus pa
In return

Audits of games, where poor referees are demoted
Q& A after the game where they would go over major incidents
Import referees from overseas

 

[Dreambeliever]

It was a red card, he wouldn’t leave and then told the ref to fuck off. I’m surprised it wasn’t 3 games.

 

[Hansern]

Lolz

 

[Beamrider]

Problem - too much dissent towards refs over bad decision making (no disputing that).
Solutions:
A - improve decision making = less dissent.
B - clamp down on dissent = refs can still be shit at their job.
Decision-maker is Howard Webb so he opts for B because A (his actual job) is too hard. And being a former ref he decides a disciplinarian approach is the only thing that will work, go in hard from day one lads, that'll show 'em.
But option A (possibly combined with some form of option B) is the right answer. Improved refereeing standards, will always benefit the game. That was supposed to be the point of VAR but they managed to fuck that up to such a degree that they have to apologise for VAR errors almost weekly (but no apologies for anything else, obviously).
But PGMOL will never get there as long as a former ref, and a shit one at that, is in charge.
It would transform the process and the respect for officiating if PGMOL put former players / managers into the top levels of their management and actually, you know, took on board the thoughts of the other 22 guys on the pitch.

 

[rubans]

The PL clubs could change things if they wanted to. Unless they think refereeing the England is an issue, nothing isn't gonna change.
Here's what I would do.

Pay referees £100k plus pa
In return

Audits of games, where poor referees are demoted
Q& A after the game where they would go over major incidents
Import referees from overseas

You do realise all this happens now?
Did you check out current structure? Anthony T has a base of already 100k a year plus fees per game.

 

[localny]

I've no problem with this. The insulting of referees has to stop. BUT, I hope we see this every week. Otherwise it's ridic and selectively imposed.

100K was surprising though. That was OTT. But again, if it deters....and is imposed on more people who commits same offense - GREAT

 

[Brizzle]

I agree, that by the book it's right. My problem with it is based on the poor officiating that culminated in it. We've seen it in other games, where refs have let poor tackles go, then punished us for lesser fouls, then thrown the book at us for reacting. If they retrospectively find that the ref has fucked up, then they should retrospectively review the impact that has. But whatever, I'm just irked (still) that something so fucking blatant, that everyone could see, was not given (the push on Trent).

What irks me even more was every bellend pundit saying it was a poor decision, and then in the next breath saying that Trent should have walked for the subsequent foul on that Evertonian prick.

I don't understand you point about poor officiating leading to it. Did poor officiating lead to Virgil wiping out Isak's standing foot when he was running in on goal?

 

[mark1975]

I don't understand you point about poor officiating leading to it. Did poor officiating lead to Virgil wiping out Isak's standing foot when he was running in on goal?

Well we were under pressure as a result of how the early moments panned out. I don't think that or the goal happens if the initial incident between Trent and Gordon gets dealt with correctly.

 

[Brizzle]

Well we were under pressure as a result of how the early moments panned out. I don't think that or the goal happens if the initial incident between Trent and Gordon gets dealt with correctly.

Like the foul on Gordon that should have been Trent's second yellow?

 

[bluebell]

You do realise all this happens now?
Did you check out current structure? Anthony T has a base of already 100k a year plus fees per game.

Last year, the referees were moaning they weren't getting paid in line with their continental peers. They were getting £65k.
Seeing that they get £100k plus, they should have to do post match Q&As. There needs to be transparency and accountancy for their performance.

 

[binomial]

It was a red card no debating that, he acted out of character for 10-15 seconds (that can happen as we're a very emotional driven side)......said a few regrettable things but nothing refs wouldn't have heard a million times over, accepted his punishment, issued a statement of apology.

That's the end of it & we welcome him back for an important game midweek.

 

[Markeh]

As ever the decision or the rule isn’t really the problem it’ll be the application of it, in particular the consistency.

 

[Beamrider]

Like the foul on Gordon that should have been Trent's second yellow?

I'm genuinely not convinced that should have been a yellow in isolation. Gordon went down like the proverbial sack of spuds at a very minor contact.
Obviously the ref erred on the side of caution (pun intended) because he probably realised he'd fucked up first time, but Gordon was clearly trying to get Trent sent off and the ref should have had a word - no yellow to Trent, in part because Gordon exaggerated the contact, and then tell Gordon he can see what he's trying to do and any more of that shit and he'd be booked. That's all common sense refereeing.

 

[Hansern]

Gordon could have had a couple of yellows himself for kicking the ball away.

 

[rubans]

Gordon has a rep for being a diver and pseudo wind up merchant.

 

[peekay]

Problem - too much dissent towards refs over bad decision making (no disputing that).
Solutions:
A - improve decision making = less dissent.
B - clamp down on dissent = refs can still be shit at their job.
Decision-maker is Howard Webb so he opts for B because A (his actual job) is too hard. And being a former ref he decides a disciplinarian approach is the only thing that will work, go in hard from day one lads, that'll show 'em.
But option A (possibly combined with some form of option B) is the right answer. Improved refereeing standards, will always benefit the game. That was supposed to be the point of VAR but they managed to fuck that up to such a degree that they have to apologise for VAR errors almost weekly (but no apologies for anything else, obviously).
But PGMOL will never get there as long as a former ref, and a shit one at that, is in charge.
It would transform the process and the respect for officiating if PGMOL put former players / managers into the top levels of their management and actually, you know, took on board the thoughts of the other 22 guys on the pitch.

Isn't it amazing how literally every sport on the planet has embraced technology to make the refereeing process better and fairer and somehow football has managed to screw even that up.

Check out quality of umpiring in cricket in 1990s vs now. The ICC is not a Saint but the attitude they display in ironing out kinks and improving the process is stunning.

The only point of view I disagree with you is on including ex players in the decision making process. Given the intellect they display on post match analysis, I would keep them far away from any decision making role, not just in refereeing, but in society in general.

 

[Beamrider]

The only point of view I disagree with you is on including ex players in the decision making process. Given the intellect they display on post match analysis, I would keep them far away from any decision making role, not just in refereeing, but in society in general.

I was thinking more Xabi Alonso than Joe Cole TBF.

 

[Beamrider]

Isn't it amazing how literally every sport on the planet has embraced technology to make the refereeing process better and fairer and somehow football has managed to screw even that up.

Check out quality of umpiring in cricket in 1990s vs now. The ICC is not a Saint but the attitude they display in ironing out kinks and improving the process is stunning.

The only point of view I disagree with you is on including ex players in the decision making process. Given the intellect they display on post match analysis, I would keep them far away from any decision making role, not just in refereeing, but in society in general.

I think the sports where technology works best are more technical - cricket is a prime example, but even in rugby the technology is often used for technical aspects (grounding the ball etc). It's not great in football because too much of it is subjective and even with the bit that isn't (offside) the calls still look like bullshit at times.
I'm still not having it that Mane was offside in the derby game where Prickford ruined van Dijk's career.