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VVD

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keniget

keniget

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We all know the midfield is terrible and needs major surgery... even Klopp seems willing to kinda publicly admit that now.

The question now is what the fuck do we do about VVD? We started tiptoeing around the topic with some recognition that he wasn't quite back to his old levels but he'll need time after his injury. From that we went to, well, he might not be giving 9s and 10s but we're still getting solid 7-8 performances... that's okay, right?

And now... well, what are we saying now? Some of his performances this season - and I know he's not alone but we expect more from him - have been impossible to defend (ha).
 
keniget said:
We all know the midfield is terrible and needs major surgery... even Klopp seems willing to kinda publicly admit that now.

The question now is what the fuck do we do about VVD? We started tiptoeing around the topic with some recognition that he wasn't quite back to his old levels but he'll need time after his injury. From that we went to, well, he might not be giving 9s and 10s but we're still getting solid 7-8 performances... that's okay, right?

And now... well, what are we saying now? Some of his performances this season - and I know he's not alone but we expect more from him - have been impossible to defend (ha).
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I've been saying it for a while, that this summer we need to be replacing van dijk. As the seasons got on he's got worse and worse.

The usual apologists will be out in the summer, same as they were last summer when we didn't get a cm.
 
We could create a similar thread on every one of our first team players not named Allison this season though. There is the main players, the spine, the lead singer and guitarist and the support cast. I feel that quite a bit of our squad is full of decent support casts and background vocalists if we get a decent lead vocalist and guitar.

Problem is players like VVD, Henderson, and Fabinho who are paid like they are the lead but are not capable of playing at that level. I would sell VVD and Fabinho. I think they can have a decent career in a place like Italy and Spain. Their performances would improve with a solid midfield but I highly doubt they are good enough to play Klopp's high line anymore. They wouldn't be worth the wages. I would sell Henderson too but I don't think there will be any takers for him at his age and wages.

But at the same time, I dont see us replacing so many players over the summer.
 
Their first goal he was at fault for, for allowing them to come inside so easily. The other goals we need to look at others for the primary reason the goals were scored.

But yeah, it's true. He's clearly not the colossus he once was. Injuries have def slowed him down.

He's still a very good defender. We have more pressing fires to put out first.

Namely a RB that can defender well, a mobile DM and 2 CMs who are just good midfielders.
 
ibromurph said:
Their first goal he was at fault for, for allowing them to come inside so easily. The other goals we need to look at others for the primary reason the goals were scored.

But yeah, it's true. He's clearly not the colossus he once was. Injuries have def slowed him down.

He's still a very good defender. We have more pressing fires to put out first.

Namely a RB that can defender well, a mobile DM and 2 CMs who are just good midfielders.
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That's just today. What about all the other games this season where the high line has exposed him? He's very clearly on the decline, and there's zero reason persisting if we can try and replace him
 
Everton's biggest contribution to football in the last 15 years, ruining a world class players career.
 
Fabio said:
That's just today. What about all the other games this season where the high line has exposed him? He's very clearly on the decline, and there's zero reason persisting if we can try and replace him
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When his performances have been poor, he's been injured or coming back from injury, or playing alongside a new partner every week (without a good DM or good RB).
 
ibromurph said:
When his performances have been poor, he's been injured or coming back from injury, or playing alongside a new partner every week.
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He played with konate on a quad charge last year, with matip on a few league crusades and won a league with Gomez.

I don't think we can blame the partners when he's not doing the basics as our most consistent starter.
 
I just detest his attitude. He plays so passively and waves and shouts at teammates and officials while doing not very much.

I accept that he's not the player he was. I dont accept his lackadaisical attitude on the pitch.
 
Laporte is not getting a game at City.
Get him in. He is their best center back along with Diaz.
 
darkstarexodus said:
I just detest his attitude. He plays so passively and waves and shouts at teammates and officials while doing not very much.

I accept that he's not the player he was. I dont accept his lackadaisical attitude on the pitch.
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That's the stuff that grinds my gears. The attitude, his mind hasn't adjusted to his body's limitations and it's not a good look.

And it is unfair on him, but that's where we are and we can't afford passengers if we are looking to get back to the top.
 
Anybody watch the Netherlands matches? He’s done, folks. Let’s not hold onto a player who is no longer able to do what he could.

Now, had we been judicious as well as ruthless in rebuilding, replacing him would have been much easier. Now we have to do this alongside revamping the midfield. Blame the owners all you want, and they deserved some, but the coaching staff hear a huge amount of responsibility as well.
 
Fortunately we have Konate. Unfortunately he can't always stay fit.

But we should be looking for a new starting quality centreback to partner Big Ib.
 
Red Bird said:
Anybody watch the Netherlands matches? He’s done, folks. Let’s not hold onto a player who is no longer able to do what he could.

Now, had we been judicious as well as ruthless in rebuilding, replacing him would have been much easier. Now we have to do this alongside revamping the midfield. Blame the owners all you want, and they deserved some, but the coaching staff hear a huge amount of responsibility as well.
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Some perhaps, but I'm not convinced about "huge". The root of the problem IMO is that we didn't do what just about every other successful team does, namely strengthen further while we were still strong. The knock-on effect of that has been that we've had to try and squeeze another season out of a number of players who needed to be rotated more often (at best) or shipped out altogether (at worst). It surprises me that some folks on here are willing to believe that was simply a matter of blind loyalty to those players, which I do not believe for one second.
 
The high line will kill us against lesser teams, and he's been found woefully out of position quite a lot this season against better teams. We simply cannot rely on him any more. He needs phasing out.

I've no doubt he would still be a colossus in a sensible no frills defensive side. But not for us
 
Judge Jules said:
Some perhaps, but I'm not convinced about "huge". The root of the problem IMO is that we didn't do what just about every other successful team does, namely strengthen further while we were still strong. The knock-on effect of that has been that we've had to try and squeeze another season out of a number of players who needed to be rotated more often (at best) or shipped out altogether (at worst). It surprises me that some folks on here are willing to believe that was simply a matter of blind loyalty to those players, which I do not believe for one second.
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Sorry, but I am one of those who does and there’s ample evidence in the last two seasons to support that from contract extensions to manager and coaches being riled up about suggestions we need to rebuild the midfield.

The owners have a broad back and are easy to slag off. But it’s more that just them. The good thing is that there’s now an acknowledgement by all concerned that mistakes and miscalculations were made but they now realise the scope of the work required to get back to the summit.
 
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HC said:
Lol klopps tactics were completely fucking wrong today -I wouldn't even have VVD in top 5 to blame

Wingbacks & 433 in general is not working for anyone in the team
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Klopp's a genius but not sure why doesn't see the problem with 4-3-3, it leaves Trent and our right exposed
 
Fabio said:
That's just today. What about all the other games this season where the high line has exposed him? He's very clearly on the decline, and there's zero reason persisting if we can try and replace him
Click to expand...

How do ya reckon he'd get on in a side that's not playing such a mental high line?
 
Red Bird said:
Sorry, but I am one of those who does and there’s ample evidence in the last two seasons to support that from contract extensions to manager and coaches being riled up about suggestions we need to rebuild the midfield.

The owners have a broad back and are easy to slag off. But it’s more that just them.
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Yeah I'm with you. Even last summer klopp over egged how great our midfield was even though everyone called him out on it. The management team have blind spots, mainly down to loyalty to players
 
Red Bird said:
Sorry, but I am one of those who does and there’s ample evidence in the last two seasons to support that from contract extensions to manager and coaches being riled up about suggestions we need to rebuild the midfield.
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I respect that view but I don't agree with it, because I don't take those contract extensions and statements about the midfield at face value, given what Klopp and the coaching team have achieved in their time at LFC so far. IMO by far the most likely explanation for those extensions and reactions is that Klopp and co.weren't allowed the funds to bring in new blood of sufficient standard, so had to "make do and mend".
 
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