Watch him defend...

[ibromurph]

I think you're right, which is why he slightly injured himself when trying to change direction and block the shot – normally he would be very much in control of his body and have no need to over-exert. But this also shows the extreme difficulty of his assignment: he was faced with 2 top-class footballers making their own split-second decisions and having to read their intentions and adjust to slightest movement all while running at top speed, at a key point of the game. Under the circumstances it was breathtakingly good.

Even during today's Spurs game, the commentators were still talking about it, which tells you something.

Don't get me wrong. It was top class defending when you consider the opponents and speed he had to make his decisions. I guess I am judging him on the absolute "perfect world" scenario, which what we often do in coaching.

In real speed, it was world class decision making. And should we win the league, we will all look back at this as a seminal moment.

 

[ibromurph]

Sorry but I have to disagree. 'Small small details', as you say, are worth the dropping of a near 10/10 down to 7/10 ?

Without doubt VvD's greatest concern, rightly, was preventing the ball getting to Son. He prevented that happening with near perfect positioning, over a distance of near 50m, all through the attack. Secondly he then, at the last moment to ensure the ball was not slid or flicked across to Son for what should then have been a simple tap in, moved in to prevent Sissoko moving the ball onto his stronger right foot.

I agree with Rurik and the bevy of ex-pros and commentators (which should be indicative) who all thought his play was breathtakingly good. That defending was world class and there is no way any aspect of it is even close to 7/10 (i.e. just basic good defending that can be seen week-in week-out). There is analysis and training ... and then there is application, the application was near perfect.

7/10 may be harsh. Closer to an 8 I guess.

But here's how I saw it:

For me, an 8/10 would have been reducing the angle of the shot across goal so that Sissoko couldn't shoot across goal (and making the save more predictable for Alisson).

9/10 would have been completely blocking or forcing him away from goal into shooting from a ridiculous angle.

10/10 would have been dispossessing the man and launching a counter-attack down the end.

Like I said, ridiculously high "perfect world" scenario. And I'm judging it in complete isolation of 2 v 1 defensive principles.

In reality, with the speed and what was at stake, and the quality of opponent, you're probably right in that it was still world class.

 

[rurikbird]

I think @ibromurph made a good point - Van Dijk did almost lose Sissoko in the end, that’s why he had to risk injury by that desperate lunge at the end. But my point is, the odds were so stacked against him anyway that in a real-game situation it was almost impossible to eliminate all risk - unless he was playing against 2 chumps rather than 2 top-class international players (a lot of slower CBs would not even be able to stay with Sissoko’s and Son’s pace). So he did the next best thing and took his chances on allowing Sissoko a clear shot with his weak foot.

 

[Dreambeliever]

The chances that they would far outweigh the chances that they wouldn't.

Pat, when you're in a hole, stop digging FFS.

I disagree. I’m not digging anything.

I don’t think he took the optimal line but got away with it.

I’d liken it to a poker player who gets it in bad, wins the hand and then claims he’s the best player in the world.

Results orientated to the extreme.

VVD didn’t pick the worst approach but it wasn’t perfect either which so many are claiming it to be.

Giving an opponent a free run at goal for 60 yards leading to a shot on goal even with his weaker foot isn’t perfect defending imo.

Most of you disagree. Fair enough. I believe IbroMurph got it spot on.

It was 7/ 10.

 

[Dreambeliever]

Yes it was, and the point you blindly ignore is that that is entirely typical of his play near goal.

I’m not ignoring I just think VVD in that split second was thinking. Aha Sissoko, I’ll keep him on his left foot and let him shoot from 20 yards cuz he’s shit.

To think he got to that level of thinking in that time is bananas.

 

[Dreambeliever]

IbroMurph has spelt out my exact thinking.

 

[Frogfish]

I disagree. I’m not digging anything.

I don’t think he took the optimal line but got away with it.

I’d liken it to a poker player who gets it in bad, wins the hand and then claims he’s the best player in the world.

Results orientated to the extreme.

VVD didn’t pick the worst approach but it wasn’t perfect either which so many are claiming it to be.

Giving an opponent a free run at goal for 60 yards leading to a shot on goal even with his weaker foot isn’t perfect defending imo.

Most of you disagree. Fair enough. I believe IbroMurph got it spot on.

It was 7/ 10.

OK well then Pat's opinion vs. the rest of the footballing world. Clear winner here.

 

[ILD]

I disagree. I’m not digging anything.

I don’t think he took the optimal line but got away with it.

I’d liken it to a poker player who gets it in bad, wins the hand and then claims he’s the best player in the world.

Results orientated to the extreme.

VVD didn’t pick the worst approach but it wasn’t perfect either which so many are claiming it to be.

Giving an opponent a free run at goal for 60 yards leading to a shot on goal even with his weaker foot isn’t perfect defending imo.

Most of you disagree. Fair enough. I believe IbroMurph got it spot on.

It was 7/ 10.

Your poker analogy doesn't make much sense as VVD didn't fuck up or over commit in the build up. VVD didn't give him a free run at goal either. His full backs were high up the pitch and his CB partner got sucked towards Kane. He was left minding the shop and sorted the situation single handily against two players.

I'm going to leave it at this; I think it was impeccable defending not to concede from that situation. Run it back with Matip or Lovren and we're 2-1 down and season may well have been over.

 

[ILD]

I’m not ignoring I just think VVD in that split second was thinking. Aha Sissoko, I’ll keep him on his left foot and let him shoot from 20 yards cuz he’s shit.

To think he got to that level of thinking in that time is bananas.

Damn, I'm back with one more.

Erm... VVD made a good few split second decisions in that phase of play. That's why its being lauded as excellent defending. He pressed Sissoko, then hesitated to block off the ball to Son. That's already two decisions he's made. Then waited it out for Sissoko to make the first move and ultimately forced Sissoko off balance to shoot over the bar from outside the box. The situation was nullified outside the box man. They didn't get a shot on target 2 versus 1.

Side note - Defenders are trained to force attackers onto their weaker foot. The same way they are trained to stay goal side and show players the line instead of letting them cut in. Defending 101 you'd hear an U-11 coach say. Some players are lazy and lack the concentration levels to do this at a consistent basis. VVD did what he was meant to do and his execution and control of the situation is a high pressurised moment in the season is what is earning him the plaudits.

 

[Frogfish]

Damn, I'm back with one more.

Erm... VVD made a good few split second decisions in that phase of play. That's why its being lauded as excellent defending. He pressed Sissoko, then hesitated to block off the ball to Son. That's already two decisions he's made. Then waited it out for Sissoko to make the first move and ultimately forced Sissoko off balance to shoot over the bar from outside the box. The situation was nullified outside the box man. They didn't get a shot on target 2 versus 1.

Side note - Defenders are trained to force attackers onto their weaker foot. The same way they are trained to stay goal side and show players the line instead of letting them cut in. Defending 101 you'd hear an U-11 coach say. Some players are lazy and lack the concentration levels to do this at a consistent basis. VVD did what he was meant to do and his execution and control of the situation is a high pressurised moment in the season is what is earning him the plaudits.

I agree with you. However do note that Sissoko shot from well inside the box 😉

 

[ILD]

Was it? Oops. I haven't watched any of those vids analyse it. I'm just going off my own memory.

 

[Frogfish]

In the presser for Southampton there is quite a discussion on this, prompted by media admiration. Klopp says a lot but finishes by saying VvD was 'perfect'. 😉

 

[darkstarexodus]

This is the most spergy thread we've had in a while. And that takes some doing. Well in, lads.

 

[SummerOnions]

We could do with our own forum stat here.

xS for expected spergyness. Moron is usually at least a 2.5 and dreamy has a minimum xS that's up there too

 

[Whaddapie]

I really don't get those who are saying that it was only standard defending... As my kids say, "I just can't...".

How he played that situation should be shown for all eternity on "How to defend" videos.

Name the other defenders in the game that you feel would handle that exact situation, in those exact circumstances, as well as he did...

 

[darkstarexodus]

I really don't get those who are saying that it was only standard defending... As my kids say, "I just can't...".

How he played that situation should be shown for all eternity on "How to defend" videos.

Name the other defenders in the game that you feel would handle that exact situation, in those exact circumstances, as well as he did...

But was it an 8.5 out of 10 or would you go so far as to give it a 9.0?

 

[darkstarexodus]

We could do with our own forum stat here.

xS for expected spergyness. Moron is usually at least a 2.5 and dreamy has a minimum xS that's up there too

I'd be curious how SCM stacks up against RAWK for xS.

 

[tombrown]

Just about every football related tv, radio show or podcast this week has been raving about it. Because it was brilliant.

But then there are some who like to have an alternative view just to be deliberately obtuse.

 

[Athens]

Just about every football related tv, radio show or podcast this week has been raving about it.

They're all wrong.

 

[Rosco]

We could do with our own forum stat here.

xS for expected spergyness. Moron is usually at least a 2.5 and dreamy has a minimum xS that's up there too

Is that a figure that's calculated per thread ?

So Moron has 2.5 spergy comments per thread ?

 

[moron]

I really don't get those who are saying that it was only standard defending... As my kids say, "I just can't...".

How he played that situation should be shown for all eternity on "How to defend" videos.

Name the other defenders in the game that you feel would handle that exact situation, in those exact circumstances, as well as he did...

Yes it was a great moment but i kinda expect great moments from him because we paid 75M for him. He was absolutely so cool in that moment there is no denying that, and to be honest i dont think you have many instances where the single defender come up top in a 2 on 1 situation.

 

[SummerOnions]

Is that a figure that's calculated per thread ?

So Moron has 2.5 spergy comments per thread ?

Expected per post I think

 

[SummerOnions]

I'd be curious how SCM stacks up against RAWK for xS.

Probably really well. Sure some virgin on twitter can find us a heat map of it

 

[Hansern]

Just stop quacking on about rating his performance and just enjoy having the best CB in the World playing for us.
He's a fucking Don.

 

[Mamma Mia]

7/10 would be fine if it happened in a match with little at stake, or if it happened when we were 4 goals up with 6min to go.

It didn't though. It happened in the last minutes of a crunch match, against a top side, where we needed the points to stay in the title race and give us our best chance in almost 30 years. After we had already given up a lead and were facing a distinct possibility of losing the game.

That's why everyone is praising it. And that's why it was 10/10.

 

[6TimesaRed]

Normally these charts are best avoided for Centre Backs..

However.. for Virgil Van Dijk... [emoji33]

 

[Modo]

Looks like that graph has a stiffy

 

[tombrown]

We need to buy a CB who is strong in PAdj tackles - that has been blatantly obvious for months now

WTF is a PAdj tackle?????

 

[Dreambeliever]

I’ve always felt a really top CB shouldn’t need to tackle too much and this backs it up.

He is incredible.

 

[Markeh]

The best center backs don't get dirty, I can't remember big Sammi looking less than pristine.