So, BR then...

[mom]

Done a good job overall, but there seems to be a slight shift in sentiment towards him at the moment amongst fans, anecdotally. To be expected after the poor start to the season, but how many of us feel confident that he can provide another top four finish this season? Don't bother with debating a title push and whether he can offer that, because it ain't gonna happen.

Most managers would have struggled without Suarez, but after a fair few games in, it's not just the results, but the performances that have been poor.

Every manager makes the odd cock up with signings, but although he's brought a few gems in, he's also had a fair few duds too.

Doesn't look as though he can emulate anywhere near what he had up front last season, and yes, I know DS is missing, but we shouldn't be that far off, surely? What if DS does is ACL in? What then? With the funds he was given, surely this should have been addressed?

Maybe once Allen, Can and DS are back, things will pick up and fast, but will two players (can't see Can and Allen both playing in many games) coming back make that much difference, considering probably our best player is still playing and playing well?

And then there's the defence. Does anyone think he can sort it out? Wasn't great last last season, and it's been poor again so far. He's spent a bomb on Ming, Lovren, Sakho and Moreno, and we're awful at the back.

I'm not out to get him, but just as players are up for criticism, even legendary players such as Stevie, so BR should be too. It'd be interesting to see what others think of him as things stand and whether the wave of confidence in him from last season still has the momentum it had a few months ago.

 

[Oliver Twist]

6 games into a season is a bit early to be jumping on his back. In my view, anyway.

 

[peterhague]

He's trying to create a new attack so there was always a chance that would need several games to gel, I've no complaints there. We just have to wait and see, but he's done it before and I expect he'll do it again.

The only serious misgiving I've got about him is the continued failure with the defence. That simply HAS to be sorted out if he's going to go on to be a real success here. Or at least managed: we don't have to be as tight as under Rafa, but conceding something like 35 a season rather than 50 is a reasonable standard to demand.

I'm also a bit pissed off we didn't target a new keeper this summer. Not sure why we delayed on that, surely he should have known it needed addressing.

 

[mom]

6 games into a season is a bit early to be jumping on his back. In my view, anyway.

Who's jumping on his back? I'm just interested to see what folk think of his poor start.
6 prem games, and a poor CL game and poor League cup game isn't enough to make a final judgement on him, of course. BUT, the defence has been shite since last season, so that's up for crit. As are the signings since he's been in. Neither of which are over just 6 games. And then there's the Gerrard thing, which has been an issue for many since last season, not just the last few games.

 

[peterhague]

Who's jumping on his back? I'm just interested to see what folk think of his poor start.
6 prem games, and a poor CL game and poor League cup game isn't enough to make a final judgement on him, of course. BUT, the defence has been shite since last season, so that's up for crit. As are the signings since he's been in. Neither of which are over just 6 games. And then there's the Gerrard thing, which has been an issue for many since last season, not just the last few games.

How do you rate the signings?

 

[Gerry_A_Trick]

First off, I thought the summer was pretty much a disaster, so I'm not too surprised how we've started.

But, we still have a lot of decent players, and Rodgers is still a good manager. We're lacking that one quality player to make the difference, but I think we'll at the very least be in with a shout of fourth coming up to the last few matches.

If the players we have actually start performing to their potential at some stage, we should make fourth with a few games to go. I suspect we will get better as the season goes on, I just hope it's not too late by the time we do.

 

[peterhague]

First off, I thought the summer was pretty much a disaster, so I'm not too surprised how we've started.

But, we still have a lot of decent players, and Rodgers is still a good manager. We're lacking that one quality player to make the difference, but I think we'll at the very least be in with a shout of fourth coming up to the last few matches.

If the players we have actually start performing to their potential at some stage, we should make fourth with a few games to go. I suspect we will get better as the season goes on, I just hope it's not too late by the time we do.

A disaster in terms of Suarez leaving? Or more than that?

 

[mom]

How do you rate the signings?

That should have read 'some' of the signings, as per my original post.

Aspas, Alberto, Ming, Sakho, Lambert, Borini etc are all misses for me. Hits include the bargain that is DS, Moreno Lallana and possibly Coutinho. He has bags of ability but is inconsistent to say the least. Lovren could come good and I think he will and Allen is a good player.
But it's not just the players you bring in, it's which positions you are buying. A new keeper and a top notch striker or two would have been nice. But then again, Mario may come good... I hoped Ming would have stepped it up, but I just don't see it. He's pants.

 

[Gerry_A_Trick]

A disaster in terms of Suarez leaving? Or more than that?

That's the main part really, but the fact that we didn't sort out our goalkeeper, didn't buy a decent striker and didn't buy anyone that could come close to replacing Suarez.

We bought a load of decent players, and overpaid in a lot of cases, but no great ones. We lost a great one. It may be in some way decent in the long term, but it was a disaster in the short term (in terms of doing as well as last season).

 

[peterhague]

That should have read 'some' of the signings, as per my original post.

Aspas, Alberto, Ming, Sakho, Lambert, Borini etc are all misses for me. Hits include the bargain that is DS, Moreno Lallana and possibly Coutinho. He has bags of ability but is inconsistent to say the least. Lovren could come good and I think he will and Allen is a good player.
But it's not just the players you bring in, it's which positions you are buying. A new keeper and a top notch striker or two would have been nice. But then again, Mario may come good... I hoped Ming would have stepped it up, but I just don't see it. He's pants.

I think making a good analysis is impossibly clouded by the significant but indistinct role played by 'the transfer committee'. The only part of your assessment in terms of players I disagree with is Coutinho, who I think was an outstandingly good signing for £8.5m.

But the problem is that I strongly suspect that Aspas, Alberto, Sakho, and to a lesser extent Mignolet, were not primarily his choices.

 

[mark1975]

I think making a good analysis is impossibly clouded by the significant but indistinct role played by 'the transfer committee'. The only part of your assessment in terms of players I disagree with is Coutinho, who I think was an outstandingly good signing for £8.5m.

But the problem is that I strongly suspect that Aspas, Alberto, Sakho, and to a lesser extent Mignolet, were not primarily his choices.

Yeah, this laying into Coutinho and dismissing him as inconsistent is getting tiring. He's been largely excellent for the price and has been fairly consistent. He's playing below his standards at the moment, but then he's not got two rapid strikers playing off him at the moment, which is what he's clearly thrived on before.

I do think the committee is a part of it, agreed, but it's difficult to pin point who bought what. I think Sakho was bought because he was available and he fitted FSG's profile, we had the money because we'd missed out on a few attackers, otherwise I don't think we'd have bought him, at least not when we did.

 

[peterhague]

Yeah, this laying into Coutinho and dismissing him as inconsistent is getting tiring. He's been largely excellent for the price and has been fairly consistent. He's playing below his standards at the moment, but then he's not got two rapid strikers playing off him at the moment, which is what he's clearly thrived on before.

I do think the committee is a part of it, agreed, but it's difficult to pin point who bought what. I think Sakho was bought because he was available and he fitted FSG's profile, we had the money because we'd missed out on a few attackers, otherwise I don't think we'd have bought him, at least not when we did.

It's not an easy thing to delineate, or probably even possible, given that some of the signings are surely jointly agreed. But I think it's clear from various small indicators that some are more Rodgers (Lallana, Lovren) and some more committee (Aspas, Alberto, Sakho).

 

[Oliver Twist]

That's the main part really, but the fact that we didn't sort out our goalkeeper, didn't buy a decent striker and didn't buy anyone that could come close to replacing Suarez.

We bought a load of decent players, and overpaid in a lot of cases, but no great ones. We lost a great one. It may be in some way decent in the long term, but it was a disaster in the short term (in terms of doing as well as last season).

Who would you have replaced Suarez with?

What strikers out there out there are anything like Suarez? And if there actually are any, what are the chances of them coming our way? We wouldn't pay the transfer fee, let alone the wages.

 

[Silver Sean]

My fear is he has the Wengers about him. Good at spotting forwards. Piss weak at spotting defenders and keepers.

 

[Fabio]

Coutinho is still a bargain, but when you have a player who blatantly can be sublime, it's galling to see him being wasteful.

He is inconsistent and his shooting is laughable.

There's nothing wrong with highlighting that, regardless of fee

 

[Oliver Twist]

Who's jumping on his back?

OK, for 'jumping on his back' read 'questioning him'. I'll sit and wait, though others won't be so patient; rightly or wrongly.

For me, it was never going to be easy after losing Suarez and with the extra CL games. It's going to take time. Hopefully not too long, mind.

Saying that, I do share the concerns regarding the defence.

 

[peterhague]

Coutinho is still a bargain, but when you have a player who blatantly can be sublime, it's galling to see him being wasteful.

He is inconsistent and his shooting is laughable.

There's nothing wrong with highlighting that, regardless of fee

It's the extension of the legitimate criticism of the player to the IMO totally unreasonable criticism of the signing that gets me, though. To get a player of such potential, already performing at a good level, with 10 years ahead of him, for £8.5m, is one of our best bargains since the Hyypia signing.

 

[Fabio]

It's the extension of the legitimate criticism of the player to the IMO totally unreasonable criticism of the signing that gets me, though. To get a player of such potential, already performing at a good level, with 10 years ahead of him, for £8.5m, is one of our best bargains since the Hyypia signing.

I don't believe he'll ever get to the status hyypia achieved with the fans though.

Horrible feeling he'll end up in the unfilled potential category

 

[SummerOnions]

It's not an easy thing to delineate, or probably even possible, given that some of the signings are surely jointly agreed. But I think it's clear from various small indicators that some are more Rodgers (Lallana, Lovren) and some more committee (Aspas, Alberto, Sakho).

Do you get the feeling the 'Rodgers signings' tend to drag a lot more?

 

[Gerry_A_Trick]

Who would you have replaced Suarez with?

What strikers out there out there are anything like Suarez? And if there actually are any, what are the chances of them coming our way? We wouldn't pay the transfer fee, let alone the wages.

We spent 115 million or so, we had the money, we just chose to spread it a little more thinly. We could have not bought two or three players and bought a 40m player, United were able to do it, we just didn't chose to.

Nobody of course would directly replace him, but we didn't buy a single player that replaces anything that he did. We bought players that we already had versions of.

Lambert - Borini
Lovren - Agger
Markovic - Ibe
Moreno - Flanagan/Enrique
Manquillo - Johnson
Can - Lucas/Gerrard
Lallana - Henderson/Coutinho
Balotelli - Suarez

We have at best, slightly improved in some positions, and bulked up the squad. But the Suarez quality that we had last season has not been close to being replaced. That's why it was not a good summer.

We've succeeded in being a more rounded average team, rather than a quality team hoping for very few injuries.

 

[peterhague]

Do you get the feeling the 'Rodgers signings' tend to drag a lot more?

I dunno. My main impression is that they're less inspired but also less erratic in terms of quality.

 

[Frogfish]

.......... and with the extra CL games. It's going to take time. Hopefully not too long, mind.

For me the extra CL games are an added bonus at the moment. So many new players that need to gel and find their way in the team and BR also needs to play them to see where they excel and where they fail. So long as we keep scraping by (e.g. Ludo) then there's no harm done and the team should come together that much faster. Pity about the injuries though.

 

[mark1975]

"We bought players we already had versions of". You mean, we upgraded on a lot of them?

Lambert - paltry fee, had a good season, will give his all for the shirt and should be a better short term deal than Borini, who looked woeful.
Lovren/Agger - Agger was finished, Lovren just had a great season. One was on the up, the other on the slide, it's not exactly like for like.
Markovic/Ibe - I'd probably be inclined to agree, in only that I know nothing about Markovic and don't like what I've seen so far, but it's early days, others think he has the potential to be a great.
Manquillo - Are we really gonna go there? The lad has played every game and looked more than just a good prospect, Johnson is shit.
Moreno - Flannagan is injured and is foremost a right back, Enrique is knocking on and has just got back from a year out. Moreno looks good.
Can - Lucas is on the slide aswell, he's never really won many people over, Gerrard is struggling in that role and won't be around forever.
Lallana - We only really had Coutinho, Henderson is hardly the same sort of player by any stretch, we need cover and an alternative now that we're in the CL.
Ballotelli - I'm not sold, I think it was a panic, last minute buy, but I don't buy this stuff that we could have bought big, because we're trying to get within a sustainable wage budget, which Suarez had broken. Yeah you have to pay for the best players, I just don't think there were many viable options, and people are seriously understating the draw of United and Van Gaal.

We should have bit the bullet and bought a keeper and I think we were struggling for options when we went for strikers, the rest haven't exactly been like for likes that have seen us step sideways, a few of them already look like they could be mainstays in the team for a few years. A few others are taking time to get upto speed, it's not a new phenomenon. The squad looks better, but yeah, we need a better keeper and a different/better striker.

 

[Gerry_A_Trick]

I didn't say they were not decent players, and not decent buys, we did overpay for at least two of them.

I mean to say we failed to address the fact that we lost one of the best players in the world. We marginally improved in some positions, didn't in others, and we're down a Suarez. We don't have the team or squad to do as well as we did last season, whether we have Europe or not.

We have to rely on Sterling and Gerrard to drag us through this season and hope we can find a brilliant player next year, or hope we get lucky with another of our young players.

 

[Oliver Twist]

I didn't say they were not decent players, and not decent buys, we did overpay for at least two of them.

I mean to say we failed to address the fact that we lost one of the best players in the world. We marginally improved in some positions, didn't in others, and we're down a Suarez. We don't have the team or squad to do as well as we did last season, whether we have Europe or not.

We have to rely on Sterling and Gerrard to drag us through this season and hope we can find a brilliant player next year, or hope we get lucky with another of our young players.

Again, Gerry, who are these £40m players we should have bought(as per your previous post)? Would we have paid the wages?

Buying three players instead of who we bought would have left us with a hellishingly light squad. We needed numbers.

 

[Gerry_A_Trick]

Again, Gerry, who are these £40m players we should have bought(as per your previous post)? Would we have paid the wages?

Buying three players instead of who we bought would have left us with a hellishingly light squad. We needed numbers.

I dunno, I don't watch that much football outside of the league. I guess I think that is the scouts job, I only judge on what I see for us.

Two players would have made all the difference? We could have just kept the likes of Ibe and others we sent on loan. A few of them aren't that far off the level we're seeing from some of our current squad.

I think more important than numbers was replacing the big hole in our squad. Numbers are easy and cheap, quality isn't.

 

[mark1975]

We need quality aswell, but as ever, the truth is somewhere in between. Many of these players we're commanding massive wages that only the likes of United can sustain (even that's debatable). We needed to bulk out the squad though. The bench this season with everyone fit, compare to last, is far stronger.

Let's face it though, we were never going to replace Suarez and we've found it difficult to get even close. Losing Sturridge aswell has been a massive kick in the teeth.

 

[Oliver Twist]

I dunno, I don't watch that much football outside of the league. I guess I think that is the scouts job, I only judge on what I see for us.

Two players would have made all the difference? We could have just kept the likes of Ibe and others we sent on loan. A few of them aren't that far off the level we're seeing from some of our current squad.

I think more important than numbers was replacing the big hole in our squad. Numbers are easy and cheap, quality isn't.

It's possible the players you refer to don't exist, then. Well, not for us anyway.

Top quality isn't cheap, I agree. I just don't know if we'd pay for it, mind. We haven't bought anything like that for years.

 

[Gerry_A_Trick]

It's possible the players you refer to don't exist, then. Well, not for us anyway.

Top quality isn't cheap, I agree. I just don't know if we'd pay for it, mind. We haven't bought anything like that for years.

We haven't bought it since Suarez, and Torres before. We didn't buy it this time, unless Markovic or Balotelli surprise us all.

I hope we look in the next windows, because I can't see us challenging without a player of that standing.

 

[Oliver Twist]

We haven't bought it since Suarez, and Torres before. We didn't buy it this time, unless Markovic or Balotelli surprise us all.

I hope we look in the next windows, because I can't see us challenging without a player of that standing.

Neither Suarez nor Torres were from the top shelf. Although I do take your point about what sort of players we bought. I am just not sure that type of player was available to us this summer, though. Transfer fee and wage inflation has taken even that type of second-tier player beyond our budget.