It does hugely worry me that we've had problems defending set pieces and in our defensive organisation for over a year now, and he's failed to address it.
So, BR then...
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I remember saying early into his reign that he was trying to run before he could walk with this team. He managed it last season (who needs a defence anyways) but that lack of any real defensive foundation seems to be coming back to bite him and us right now.
Agreed. He's not signed anyone who has improved us besides Sturridge. Moreno looks like he'll fit the bill too but it's still early days.
Southampton's replacement for Lallana and Lambert already seem like upgrades in Pelle and Tadic.
Plus, he's signed Lallana and Markovic when we have Coutinho. Only 1 was needed for that position. The strikers we signed don't fit the bill. We've moved to a 4231 despite not having any decent defensive mids. Plus, what is our style of play - we don't press like last season, don't counterattack - we just seem to muddle along.
This can't all hinge on Sturridge being absent.
We've lost our identity and unless we find it quickly, we're going nowhere fast
We need Allen back. When he's back we'll win everything
Not every manager starts building from defense though. Mourinho certainly does, Rafa does, Guardiola does not, Hiddink does not, Van Gaal does not. Those managers often rely on the individual qualities of the defenders to compensate for their lack of emphasis on defensive systems, just like defensive-minded managers like Rafa or Mourinho often rely on individual qualities of their attackers to compensate for the relatively simplistic attacking systems they use.
Van Gaal transformed Bayern in his time there and created a new successful model of play for them, but he didn't leave anything close to a solid defensive foundation at the time he was fired. For Guardiola Gerard Pique was a godsend; they relied heavily on his individual qualities in their best seasons and it's no coincidence that their periods of decline coincided with his injuries and loss of form (as well as Puyol's lengthy injuries and eventual retirement – even though Puyol was never Guardiola's favorite, but he made himself indispensable in much the same way Carra did for Rodgers 2 seasons ago).
Rodgers obviously belongs to the same category of attack-minded managers; he spends his waking hours thinking about ways for his team to create space, not how to close it down. So he WILL rely on the individual qualities of his defenders, we need to accept this as a fact – that's just how it's going to be with Rodgers. It doesn't mean going all gung-ho and having a perpetually weak defense – Rodgers, like Guardiola and a few others, will emphasize pressing game, but even with the best press there will always be a few breakdowns in every game – that's when you need top-class individual defenders to put the fire out (and if that fails, a top goalkeeper to make 1-2 crucial saves).
Rodgers inherited an aging defensive line with Agger on the wane and dogged by injuries, Carra retiring and Reina badly on the decline. He needs to strike gold the way Guardiola did with Pique (don't think it was even Pep's choice to buy him, so he cannot take credit for it – and his own buys in the centre-back market have mostly been disastrous). I was hoping Lovren would be that player, but even if not – Rodgers will need to keep trying. I'm fine with him spending £20M each year on a new CB until he finally finds someone with the personality and quality to be that defensive leader and organizer for us.
Good post, rurik.
We were playing a bit like this at the beginning of last season, however Mignolet started off in great form, he saved us a lot of points in the first 10 or so games, he seems to be doing the opposite, and we're losing points. I think that marries up nicely with your points about Rodgers need exception defenders, he had that at the beginning of the season in Mignolet, he doesn't have that this season and it's costing us.
Fuc
Fuck that shit.
Rodgers: "The last 18 months have been a magical carpet ride."
I think Rodgers has had some duff signings just like any manager. All his purchases this summer were young assets that will hopefully gel, but can be sold for decent money if they don't. I can't see anything seriously wrong with any of his signings so far. Moreno, Manquillo, Can all look good. Lallana looks excellent.
There's no sign of an ASPAS. Markovic is off to a slow start but that's probably all it is.
Everything is going wrong at once right now. Keeper is off, CB's are off, Gerrard is off, Injuries everywhere, Balo can't gel, Raheem is off, Markovic is taking his time, and the pressing game is gone. And we've lost Mr Magic to one of the best clubs in the Latin World
It's just one of those periods when everything is going wrong. It'll pass, let's keep the faith, and keep the Muppets in check who question the manager after a few poor games. You know he has the brain to recitify it. And he will.
Show your mental fitness lads. We're not banner flying Manchester fans, or Spurs supporters. We know what a bad period looks like, we had one for 4 years. This isn't one of them. This is just a pinprick.
There's no sign of an ASPAS. Markovic is off to a slow start but that's probably all it is.
Everything is going wrong at once right now. Keeper is off, CB's are off, Gerrard is off, Injuries everywhere, Balo can't gel, Raheem is off, Markovic is taking his time, and the pressing game is gone. And we've lost Mr Magic to one of the best clubs in the Latin World
It's just one of those periods when everything is going wrong. It'll pass, let's keep the faith, and keep the Muppets in check who question the manager after a few poor games. You know he has the brain to recitify it. And he will.
Show your mental fitness lads. We're not banner flying Manchester fans, or Spurs supporters. We know what a bad period looks like, we had one for 4 years. This isn't one of them. This is just a pinprick.
What?
Brendan seems to be getting increasingly pissed off when interviewed, as things aren't going his way. They're asking him questions or saying things like 'so you've let in a goal from ANOTHER set piece' and you can see it's royally fucking him off. I don't think he's the greatest defensive coach of all time, but, I guarantee he's schooling these fuckers on the training pitch what to do, and they seem to be switching off. There's only so much he can do, if he drills them over and over again, and they don't replicate it on the pitch, what do you do? Sell them? Send them to a shrink?
I still stupidly think that all these defensive issues would go away if we had a quality DM infront of the back 5. The defence and keeper seem to be in a chicken and egg situation whether neither perform well if the other half isn't filling them with confidence, and I think a solid DM would just calm them all down. That DM is definitely not Gerrard as he's constantly an accident waiting to happen, it's probably not Lucas now, it 'may' be Can, at least I hope it is else this season is going to be a verrrrrrrry long one the way we're playing at the back, and I'm not sure how coachable it is on Brendan's part - silk purse from a pigs ear?
I think he'll sort out the top half of the pitch soon enough. When we get all of our team fit again. He had Swansea playing great football and scoring goals with far worse players than we currently have, Suarez or no Suarez.
I still stupidly think that all these defensive issues would go away if we had a quality DM infront of the back 5. The defence and keeper seem to be in a chicken and egg situation whether neither perform well if the other half isn't filling them with confidence, and I think a solid DM would just calm them all down. That DM is definitely not Gerrard as he's constantly an accident waiting to happen, it's probably not Lucas now, it 'may' be Can, at least I hope it is else this season is going to be a verrrrrrrry long one the way we're playing at the back, and I'm not sure how coachable it is on Brendan's part - silk purse from a pigs ear?
I think he'll sort out the top half of the pitch soon enough. When we get all of our team fit again. He had Swansea playing great football and scoring goals with far worse players than we currently have, Suarez or no Suarez.
Ok, I just though it was a little odd, Munich and all that.
Andy Hunter has five things that are wrong with us, whereas Chris Bascombe says there are 6.
[article=http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2014/oct/02/liverpool-five-areas-urgent-attention]What’s wrong with Liverpool? Five areas that need urgent attention
Brendan Rodgers’ overhauled team has lost its way this season and the void created by the departure of Luis Suárez for Barcelona becomes greater by the game
1 Case of misplaced team identity
Brendan Rodgers’ philosophy has not changed since an irrepressible Liverpool side fell just short of winning the Premier League last season, but the subsequent overhaul in personnel has yielded an unrecognisable style. Opponents knew what to expect from Liverpool last term – swift, penetrating attacks, rapid transitions into the final third, outstanding movement throughout the forward line (not only the inevitably missed Luis Suárez) and well-rehearsed set pieces – but frequently struggled to contain the onslaughts. Rodgers’ ideal of a visit to Anfield becoming “the longest 90 minutes of an opponent’s life” neared fruition.
A few months on and Liverpool appear unsure of themselves. A counterattacking team with a striker in Mario Balotelli who does not make the right runs to suit his team-mates? A team that sends more crosses into the box for Balotelli and thereby reduces the effectiveness of Raheem Sterling, Philippe Coutinho or Adam Lallana? “There is a real belief in our way of working and our way of playing,” the Liverpool manager said at the end of last season. Not now there isn’t.
The void created by Suárez’s departure for Barcelona is becoming greater by the game. Yes, it is early days. Yes, a squad containing eight new faces needs time to adjust, but the summer transfer policy ran contrary to Rodgers’ statement in May before Suárez was sold that he “would rather have one or two absolute top players than seven that might not help us. It’s about the quality.” The disruption is running deep.
2 Weaknesses in defence
The failing that contributed to Liverpool’s title slip has not been remedied despite a further outlay of £32m on defenders this summer (Dejan Lovren, Alberto Moreno plus a loan fee for Javier Manquillo). Liverpool have spent £66m on defenders since Rodgers arrived at the club, including the £9m goalkeeper Simon Mignolet, but the collective mistakes are on repeat and the organisation is questionable. Lovren was supposed to correct the lack of leadership in central defence – the cause of Rodgers’ misgivings about Daniel Agger before the Dane’s transfer back to Brondby in August – but the vulnerability remains glaring and Basel were the fourth team to score from a set piece against Liverpool in nine matches this season. Lovren has identified communication with the Spanish full-backs Moreno and Manquillo as a problem but Mignolet’s failure to command his penalty area has sown uncertainty and prompted Liverpool’s interest in Víctor Valdés’s recovery from a cruciate injury.
3 Balotelli should be Plan B
Events have conspired against a pre-season desire not to blather on about Suárez after every Liverpool setback. A major factor has been the loss of Daniel Sturridge to a thigh injury sustained in an England training session that he advised Roy Hodgson did not suit his post-match recovery routine. The Champions League defeat to Basel was Liverpool’s sixth game without a striker whose ability to stretch defences, creating space and opportunity for the likes of Sterling and Coutinho in the process, is essential to the Rodgers approach. So too Sturridge’s pace and finishing ability.
In the England striker’s absence Balotelli has offered little to dispel the notion of a desperation signing. A “calculated risk” was how Rodgers described the £16m addition from Milan. Against Ludogorets Razgrad in the opening Champions League game he looked a risk worth taking, otherwise he has appeared unsuited to Liverpool’s established style. Balotelli’s reputation for selfish, indifferent performances has been unfounded. Work rate has not been the problem. It is his touch, finishing and link-up play that are causes for concern. He appears more suited to the “Plan B” role that Rickie Lambert was supposed to provide.
4 No rebuilding in central midfield
Not for the first time, Steven Gerrard’s suitability as a holding midfielder is under scrutiny after Basel easily picked holes around Liverpool’s central midfield on Wednesday. Five days earlier the 34-year-old thought he had put that debate to bed, at least for a while, following an influential performance and goal against Everton in the Merseyside derby. Whenever the focus falls on Liverpool’s central areas it invariably rests on Gerrard, and Rodgers’ pre-match assertion that the club must see “how he feels” over a contract extension, having indicated it was a foregone conclusion only a few months ago, marked a shift in emphasis.
But the issues are wider. Jordan Henderson was also on the margins and bypassed easily against Basel. Rodgers spoke afterwards of the desperate need to have Joe Allen and Emre Can back from injury when neither have featured regularly when fit (Can, admittedly, only arrived in the summer but was overlooked for the out-of-favour Lucas at the start of the season having been withdrawn at half-time in the final pre-season friendly against Borussia Dortmund). Lucas was told he was free to leave in the summer but no proven defensive midfielder arrived. It is not, as has been the case for much of his Liverpool career, all on Gerrard’s shoulders.
5 Friction within the squad
It was interesting to hear Rodgers’ appeal to the collective after the defeat at St Jakob Park. “It is vitally important we get back to playing as a team,” he said. “That was the huge advantage we had over the last 18 months and it is important we work together as a team.” That line came in a lament over Liverpool’s technical work this season, specifically the lack of it, but followed a night when Balotelli ignored the manager’s request to go to the travelling supporters after the final whistle, Coutinho angrily exchanged words with Rodgers during the game and blanked his manager when substituted, and Gerrard was involved in another dispute with Mignolet after a mistake on the edge of the area. They are all signs of understandable frustration but following Mamadou Sakho’s walk-out when told he was not in the matchday squad against Everton on Saturday, and Lambert’s admission that his fitness regime needs looking at as he struggles to adapt to a lesser role with his boyhood club, the harmony that went hand-in-hand with a winning team last season was not in evidence in Switzerland.[/article]
[article=http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/liverpool/11137438/Liverpool-have-no-Luis-Suarez-Daniel-Sturridge-is-injured-and-the-defence-is-shaky-Six-problems-to-solve-at-Anfield.html]Liverpool have no Luis Suarez, Daniel Sturridge is injured and the defence is shaky: Six problems to solve at Anfield
Liverpool's Premier and Champions League campaigns have started hesitantly – what has gone wrong at Anfield?
1) Luis Suarez’s sale
He has gone and since he is not coming back it seems counterproductive to keep on mentioning it, but when you sell one of the world’s greatest footballers you are the one who is going to pay the price, even if you have been given a £75 million cheque. Suárez was the complete striker for Liverpool. It was not just his goals, but the way he energised those around him. Liverpool knew they would miss him, but nobody at Anfield envisaged it would be this bad so soon.
2) Recruitment
Do you want the next big thing or the most expensive players on the market? The Liverpool view appears to be why sign proven, world-class talents who will demand in excess of £150,000 a week if you can sign unpolished gems on lower salaries who will show their class in the future? Thus, Liverpool failed to make Alexis Sanchez an offer he could not refuse as he moved to Arsenal, were put off by Radamel Falcao’s massive fee and salary, and even put out a sarcastic tweet – via owner John W Henry – amid false links to Marco Reus. The best Liverpool signings of the past 10 years were established Spanish internationals; the focal point of Argentina’s midfield; and a striker who inspired his previously unfancied country to the World Cup semi-finals. Do those players make more sense than under-21 internationals who look exceptional when stats are printed? You decide.
3) Injuries
Daniel Sturridge’s absence cannot be underestimated. His last appearance against Spurs – alongside Mario Balotelli – gave the impression Liverpool would continue to flourish and rip opponents apart as they did last season. Without him, the goal threat is minimal. Joe Allen has also been missed. His diligence in midfield frees space for both Steven Gerrard and Jordan Henderson, and Liverpool look more balanced and dominate possession with the Welshman in the side.
4) Tactics
Blame it all on Jose Mourinho. When he took Chelsea to Anfield last April, packed his defence and midfield and ensured there was no space to exploit in a purely defensive measure he provided the tactical template for everyone else to follow. Aston Villa repeated the trick earlier this month, and allied to the constant on-field harassment of playmaker Steven Gerrard, Liverpool’s passing game has become virtually non-existent.
5) Defence
The questions lingered from last season regarding the Liverpool defence and goalkeeper and they remain unanswered. In defence of Simon Mignolet, Dejan Lovren and Martin Skrtel, they have improved in their last two fixtures. Phil Jagielka scored a screamer and losing a single goal, albeit from a corner, in an away European team should not be a guarantee of a timid defeat. There is no attacking threat to bail the defence out now, but it is collectively as much as individually Liverpool have looked most vulnerable at the back.
6) Fixture congestion
More games mean more tired limbs and more injuries. Just as everyone predicted, the Liverpool squad is suffering and with so many new players adjusting to their new club, more quantity has – at this stage – meant less quality. The Liverpool of last season would have relished having a game every four days, but this version does not currently look capable of coping with the demands.[/article]
[article=http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2014/oct/02/liverpool-five-areas-urgent-attention]What’s wrong with Liverpool? Five areas that need urgent attention
Brendan Rodgers’ overhauled team has lost its way this season and the void created by the departure of Luis Suárez for Barcelona becomes greater by the game
1 Case of misplaced team identity
Brendan Rodgers’ philosophy has not changed since an irrepressible Liverpool side fell just short of winning the Premier League last season, but the subsequent overhaul in personnel has yielded an unrecognisable style. Opponents knew what to expect from Liverpool last term – swift, penetrating attacks, rapid transitions into the final third, outstanding movement throughout the forward line (not only the inevitably missed Luis Suárez) and well-rehearsed set pieces – but frequently struggled to contain the onslaughts. Rodgers’ ideal of a visit to Anfield becoming “the longest 90 minutes of an opponent’s life” neared fruition.
A few months on and Liverpool appear unsure of themselves. A counterattacking team with a striker in Mario Balotelli who does not make the right runs to suit his team-mates? A team that sends more crosses into the box for Balotelli and thereby reduces the effectiveness of Raheem Sterling, Philippe Coutinho or Adam Lallana? “There is a real belief in our way of working and our way of playing,” the Liverpool manager said at the end of last season. Not now there isn’t.
The void created by Suárez’s departure for Barcelona is becoming greater by the game. Yes, it is early days. Yes, a squad containing eight new faces needs time to adjust, but the summer transfer policy ran contrary to Rodgers’ statement in May before Suárez was sold that he “would rather have one or two absolute top players than seven that might not help us. It’s about the quality.” The disruption is running deep.
2 Weaknesses in defence
The failing that contributed to Liverpool’s title slip has not been remedied despite a further outlay of £32m on defenders this summer (Dejan Lovren, Alberto Moreno plus a loan fee for Javier Manquillo). Liverpool have spent £66m on defenders since Rodgers arrived at the club, including the £9m goalkeeper Simon Mignolet, but the collective mistakes are on repeat and the organisation is questionable. Lovren was supposed to correct the lack of leadership in central defence – the cause of Rodgers’ misgivings about Daniel Agger before the Dane’s transfer back to Brondby in August – but the vulnerability remains glaring and Basel were the fourth team to score from a set piece against Liverpool in nine matches this season. Lovren has identified communication with the Spanish full-backs Moreno and Manquillo as a problem but Mignolet’s failure to command his penalty area has sown uncertainty and prompted Liverpool’s interest in Víctor Valdés’s recovery from a cruciate injury.
3 Balotelli should be Plan B
Events have conspired against a pre-season desire not to blather on about Suárez after every Liverpool setback. A major factor has been the loss of Daniel Sturridge to a thigh injury sustained in an England training session that he advised Roy Hodgson did not suit his post-match recovery routine. The Champions League defeat to Basel was Liverpool’s sixth game without a striker whose ability to stretch defences, creating space and opportunity for the likes of Sterling and Coutinho in the process, is essential to the Rodgers approach. So too Sturridge’s pace and finishing ability.
In the England striker’s absence Balotelli has offered little to dispel the notion of a desperation signing. A “calculated risk” was how Rodgers described the £16m addition from Milan. Against Ludogorets Razgrad in the opening Champions League game he looked a risk worth taking, otherwise he has appeared unsuited to Liverpool’s established style. Balotelli’s reputation for selfish, indifferent performances has been unfounded. Work rate has not been the problem. It is his touch, finishing and link-up play that are causes for concern. He appears more suited to the “Plan B” role that Rickie Lambert was supposed to provide.
4 No rebuilding in central midfield
Not for the first time, Steven Gerrard’s suitability as a holding midfielder is under scrutiny after Basel easily picked holes around Liverpool’s central midfield on Wednesday. Five days earlier the 34-year-old thought he had put that debate to bed, at least for a while, following an influential performance and goal against Everton in the Merseyside derby. Whenever the focus falls on Liverpool’s central areas it invariably rests on Gerrard, and Rodgers’ pre-match assertion that the club must see “how he feels” over a contract extension, having indicated it was a foregone conclusion only a few months ago, marked a shift in emphasis.
But the issues are wider. Jordan Henderson was also on the margins and bypassed easily against Basel. Rodgers spoke afterwards of the desperate need to have Joe Allen and Emre Can back from injury when neither have featured regularly when fit (Can, admittedly, only arrived in the summer but was overlooked for the out-of-favour Lucas at the start of the season having been withdrawn at half-time in the final pre-season friendly against Borussia Dortmund). Lucas was told he was free to leave in the summer but no proven defensive midfielder arrived. It is not, as has been the case for much of his Liverpool career, all on Gerrard’s shoulders.
5 Friction within the squad
It was interesting to hear Rodgers’ appeal to the collective after the defeat at St Jakob Park. “It is vitally important we get back to playing as a team,” he said. “That was the huge advantage we had over the last 18 months and it is important we work together as a team.” That line came in a lament over Liverpool’s technical work this season, specifically the lack of it, but followed a night when Balotelli ignored the manager’s request to go to the travelling supporters after the final whistle, Coutinho angrily exchanged words with Rodgers during the game and blanked his manager when substituted, and Gerrard was involved in another dispute with Mignolet after a mistake on the edge of the area. They are all signs of understandable frustration but following Mamadou Sakho’s walk-out when told he was not in the matchday squad against Everton on Saturday, and Lambert’s admission that his fitness regime needs looking at as he struggles to adapt to a lesser role with his boyhood club, the harmony that went hand-in-hand with a winning team last season was not in evidence in Switzerland.[/article]
[article=http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/liverpool/11137438/Liverpool-have-no-Luis-Suarez-Daniel-Sturridge-is-injured-and-the-defence-is-shaky-Six-problems-to-solve-at-Anfield.html]Liverpool have no Luis Suarez, Daniel Sturridge is injured and the defence is shaky: Six problems to solve at Anfield
Liverpool's Premier and Champions League campaigns have started hesitantly – what has gone wrong at Anfield?
1) Luis Suarez’s sale
He has gone and since he is not coming back it seems counterproductive to keep on mentioning it, but when you sell one of the world’s greatest footballers you are the one who is going to pay the price, even if you have been given a £75 million cheque. Suárez was the complete striker for Liverpool. It was not just his goals, but the way he energised those around him. Liverpool knew they would miss him, but nobody at Anfield envisaged it would be this bad so soon.
2) Recruitment
Do you want the next big thing or the most expensive players on the market? The Liverpool view appears to be why sign proven, world-class talents who will demand in excess of £150,000 a week if you can sign unpolished gems on lower salaries who will show their class in the future? Thus, Liverpool failed to make Alexis Sanchez an offer he could not refuse as he moved to Arsenal, were put off by Radamel Falcao’s massive fee and salary, and even put out a sarcastic tweet – via owner John W Henry – amid false links to Marco Reus. The best Liverpool signings of the past 10 years were established Spanish internationals; the focal point of Argentina’s midfield; and a striker who inspired his previously unfancied country to the World Cup semi-finals. Do those players make more sense than under-21 internationals who look exceptional when stats are printed? You decide.
3) Injuries
Daniel Sturridge’s absence cannot be underestimated. His last appearance against Spurs – alongside Mario Balotelli – gave the impression Liverpool would continue to flourish and rip opponents apart as they did last season. Without him, the goal threat is minimal. Joe Allen has also been missed. His diligence in midfield frees space for both Steven Gerrard and Jordan Henderson, and Liverpool look more balanced and dominate possession with the Welshman in the side.
4) Tactics
Blame it all on Jose Mourinho. When he took Chelsea to Anfield last April, packed his defence and midfield and ensured there was no space to exploit in a purely defensive measure he provided the tactical template for everyone else to follow. Aston Villa repeated the trick earlier this month, and allied to the constant on-field harassment of playmaker Steven Gerrard, Liverpool’s passing game has become virtually non-existent.
5) Defence
The questions lingered from last season regarding the Liverpool defence and goalkeeper and they remain unanswered. In defence of Simon Mignolet, Dejan Lovren and Martin Skrtel, they have improved in their last two fixtures. Phil Jagielka scored a screamer and losing a single goal, albeit from a corner, in an away European team should not be a guarantee of a timid defeat. There is no attacking threat to bail the defence out now, but it is collectively as much as individually Liverpool have looked most vulnerable at the back.
6) Fixture congestion
More games mean more tired limbs and more injuries. Just as everyone predicted, the Liverpool squad is suffering and with so many new players adjusting to their new club, more quantity has – at this stage – meant less quality. The Liverpool of last season would have relished having a game every four days, but this version does not currently look capable of coping with the demands.[/article]
Andy Hunter's no. 5 is interesting; I have to admit I've not noticed Gerrard having a pop at Ming. Also I agree about Joe Allen being massively missed. Opponents are running straight through our midfield at the moment. Allen is a brilliant player, holds onto the ball well, presses well and is positionally very good.
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