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Dalglish on Maxi

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Re: Re: Dalglish on Maxi

[quote author=Halmeister link=topic=47787.msg1#msg1 date=1323165698]
I can understand the frustration, but we owe a lot to Kenny even in this latest stint as manager. Though, things could be better.
[/quote]

I wouldn't say we owe a lot this stint. He got us on a run last year and playing some nice football. that's about it.
 
Re: Re: Dalglish on Maxi

[quote author=Fabio link=topic=47787.msg1438985#msg1438985 date=1323165898]
[quote author=Halmeister link=topic=47787.msg1#msg1 date=1323165698]
I can understand the frustration, but we owe a lot to Kenny even in this latest stint as manager. Though, things could be better.
[/quote]

I wouldn't say we owe a lot this stint. He got us on a run last year and playing some nice football. that's about it.
[/quote]

I think there's more to it. He's boosted morale dramatically and has got players playing for the club again. Bar some poor finishing and woodwork, we'd have a lot more points on the board. We're heading in the right direction, finally.

We could and should have a lot more points than we do.

Relegation was a very real possibility under the last manager, we should also remember that.
 
[quote author=Halmeister link=topic=47787.msg1438980#msg1438980 date=1323165698]
I can understand the frustration, but we owe a lot to Kenny even in this latest stint as manager. Though, things could be better.
[/quote]I'll be honest Hal one of my biggest complaints with Rafa was the consistent waste of money and the fact that he failed to consistently beat the muck teams.
I'd be a massive hypocrite if i wasnt fucking livid with Kennys Liverpool 2011.
I dont know what to say really, for all the fucking feelgood factor beating Chelsea brings it means fuck all when we sit with 75m spent on three players who arent helping us greatly and we drop points to the utter fucking muck that Spurs, United etc roll over.

We're not as strong as we were in 2008 and i dont have a clue how much we have spent in the interim?
What I do know is that if we didnt play like a 'team' and properly challenge the top of the table I was ALWAYS going to be livid about Cole, Meireles and Aquilani being elsewhere.
That is going to become hatred before to long. We lack cutting edge and goals. We let three of our four most creative midfielders go and the other cant get a game. Livid.
 
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=47787.msg1438985#msg1438985 date=1323165898]
[quote author=Halmeister link=topic=47787.msg1#msg1 date=1323165698]
I can understand the frustration, but we owe a lot to Kenny even in this latest stint as manager. Though, things could be better.
[/quote]

I wouldn't say we owe a lot this stint. He got us on a run last year and playing some nice football. that's about it.
[/quote]

I'd say we owe him a lot as I am 100% convinced roy would have seen us relagated.
all works in progress take time unless you're city and can cherry pick the world's best players.
 
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47787.msg1438994#msg1438994 date=1323166667]
[quote author=Halmeister link=topic=47787.msg1438980#msg1438980 date=1323165698]
I can understand the frustration, but we owe a lot to Kenny even in this latest stint as manager. Though, things could be better.
[/quote]I'll be honest Hal one of my biggest complaints with Rafa was the consistent waste of money and the fact that he failed to consistently beat the muck teams.
I'd be a massive hypocrite if i wasnt fucking livid with Kennys Liverpool 2011.
I dont know what to say really, for all the fucking feelgood factor beating Chelsea brings it means fuck all when we sit with 75m spent on three players who arent helping us greatly and we drop points to the utter fucking muck that Spurs, United etc roll over.

We're not as strong as we were in 2008 and i dont have a clue how much we have spent in the interim?
What I do know is that if we didnt play like a 'team' and properly challenge the top of the table I was ALWAYS going to be livid about Cole, Meireles and Aquilani being elsewhere.
That is going to become hatred before to long. We lack cutting edge and goals. We let three of our four most creative midfielders go and the other cant get a game. Livid.
[/quote]

Yeah I can understand that.

I will disagree on a few points though. While we lack goals, we don't lack cutting edge. We create enough chances to win games. In fact I can only think of the game against Spurs where we deservedly lost. The rest we would have won had we taken our chances. The way we play now is better than we did under Hodgson certainly, and better than we did towards the end of Rafa's reign.
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47787.msg1438997#msg1438997 date=1323166778]
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=47787.msg1438985#msg1438985 date=1323165898]
[quote author=Halmeister link=topic=47787.msg1#msg1 date=1323165698]
I can understand the frustration, but we owe a lot to Kenny even in this latest stint as manager. Though, things could be better.
[/quote]

I wouldn't say we owe a lot this stint. He got us on a run last year and playing some nice football. that's about it.
[/quote]

I'd say we owe him a lot as I am 100% convinced roy would have seen us relagated.
all works in progress take time unless you're city and can cherry pick the world's best players.
[/quote]Kennys record isnt much better than Roys.
 
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47787.msg1439002#msg1439002 date=1323167035]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47787.msg1438997#msg1438997 date=1323166778]
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=47787.msg1438985#msg1438985 date=1323165898]
[quote author=Halmeister link=topic=47787.msg1#msg1 date=1323165698]
I can understand the frustration, but we owe a lot to Kenny even in this latest stint as manager. Though, things could be better.
[/quote]

I wouldn't say we owe a lot this stint. He got us on a run last year and playing some nice football. that's about it.
[/quote]

I'd say we owe him a lot as I am 100% convinced roy would have seen us relagated.
all works in progress take time unless you're city and can cherry pick the world's best players.
[/quote]Kennys record isnt much better than Roys.
[/quote]

The difference with Roy is that we went into some games with no hope at all. As I said before, we've been the better team in all but one of our games this season.
 
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47787.msg1438994#msg1438994 date=1323166667]
[quote author=Halmeister link=topic=47787.msg1438980#msg1438980 date=1323165698]
I can understand the frustration, but we owe a lot to Kenny even in this latest stint as manager. Though, things could be better.
[/quote]I'll be honest Hal one of my biggest complaints with Rafa was the consistent waste of money and the fact that he failed to consistently beat the muck teams.
I'd be a massive hypocrite if i wasnt fucking livid with Kennys Liverpool 2011.
I dont know what to say really, for all the fucking feelgood factor beating Chelsea brings it means fuck all when we sit with 75m spent on three players who arent helping us greatly and we drop points to the utter fucking muck that Spurs, United etc roll over.

We're not as strong as we were in 2008 and i dont have a clue how much we have spent in the interim?
What I do know is that if we didnt play like a 'team' and properly challenge the top of the table I was ALWAYS going to be livid about Cole, Meireles and Aquilani being elsewhere.
That is going to become hatred before to long. We lack cutting edge and goals. We let three of our four most creative midfielders go and the other cant get a game. Livid.
[/quote]

at the start of the season;
gerrard - on the verge of recovery
lucas - certain starter
adam - certain starter
henderson
maxi
----
meireles
aqua

in the case of meireles he was down the pecking order and we needed to recoup some money after our huge summer outlay.
in the case of aqua he just wasn't part of the managers plans.

we've been unlucky with injuries, if lucas and gerrard were fit meireles and aqua wouldn't get near the team, which is maybe a shame as craft has sorely been needed with regards to breaking down stubborn defenses.
for the record I was sad to see aqua go (as he had a brilliant pre season) and meireles go as he was one of kenny's better performers at the tail end of last season.
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47787.msg1439008#msg1439008 date=1323167353]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47787.msg1438994#msg1438994 date=1323166667]
[quote author=Halmeister link=topic=47787.msg1438980#msg1438980 date=1323165698]
I can understand the frustration, but we owe a lot to Kenny even in this latest stint as manager. Though, things could be better.
[/quote]I'll be honest Hal one of my biggest complaints with Rafa was the consistent waste of money and the fact that he failed to consistently beat the muck teams.
I'd be a massive hypocrite if i wasnt fucking livid with Kennys Liverpool 2011.
I dont know what to say really, for all the fucking feelgood factor beating Chelsea brings it means fuck all when we sit with 75m spent on three players who arent helping us greatly and we drop points to the utter fucking muck that Spurs, United etc roll over.

We're not as strong as we were in 2008 and i dont have a clue how much we have spent in the interim?
What I do know is that if we didnt play like a 'team' and properly challenge the top of the table I was ALWAYS going to be livid about Cole, Meireles and Aquilani being elsewhere.
That is going to become hatred before to long. We lack cutting edge and goals. We let three of our four most creative midfielders go and the other cant get a game. Livid.
[/quote]

at the start of the season;
gerrard - on the verge of recovery
lucas - certain starter
adam - certain starter
henderson
maxi
----
meireles
aqua

in the case of meireles he was down the pecking order and we needed to recoup some money after our huge summer outlay.
in the case of aqua he just wasn't part of the managers plans.

we've been unlucky with injuries, if lucas and gerrard were fit meireles and aqua wouldn't get near the team, which is maybe a shame as craft has sorely been needed with regards to breaking down stubborn defenses.
for the record I was sad to see aqua go (as he had a brilliant pre season) and meireles go as he was one of kenny's better performers at the tail end of last season.
[/quote]So what you are saying is we HAD to get rid of Meireles (and to a lesser extent Cole and Aquilani) because we needed to recoup some of the 75m outlay on the inferior players we brought in to replace them, and/or because they wouldnt get a game on account of those inferior players now being first choice?
Yeah. Good one.
Thats really helped me put my bitterness into perspective.
 
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47787.msg1439011#msg1439011 date=1323167641]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47787.msg1439008#msg1439008 date=1323167353]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47787.msg1438994#msg1438994 date=1323166667]
[quote author=Halmeister link=topic=47787.msg1438980#msg1438980 date=1323165698]
I can understand the frustration, but we owe a lot to Kenny even in this latest stint as manager. Though, things could be better.
[/quote]I'll be honest Hal one of my biggest complaints with Rafa was the consistent waste of money and the fact that he failed to consistently beat the muck teams.
I'd be a massive hypocrite if i wasnt fucking livid with Kennys Liverpool 2011.
I dont know what to say really, for all the fucking feelgood factor beating Chelsea brings it means fuck all when we sit with 75m spent on three players who arent helping us greatly and we drop points to the utter fucking muck that Spurs, United etc roll over.

We're not as strong as we were in 2008 and i dont have a clue how much we have spent in the interim?
What I do know is that if we didnt play like a 'team' and properly challenge the top of the table I was ALWAYS going to be livid about Cole, Meireles and Aquilani being elsewhere.
That is going to become hatred before to long. We lack cutting edge and goals. We let three of our four most creative midfielders go and the other cant get a game. Livid.
[/quote]

at the start of the season;
gerrard - on the verge of recovery
lucas - certain starter
adam - certain starter
henderson
maxi
----
meireles
aqua

in the case of meireles he was down the pecking order and we needed to recoup some money after our huge summer outlay.
in the case of aqua he just wasn't part of the managers plans.

we've been unlucky with injuries, if lucas and gerrard were fit meireles and aqua wouldn't get near the team, which is maybe a shame as craft has sorely been needed with regards to breaking down stubborn defenses.
for the record I was sad to see aqua go (as he had a brilliant pre season) and meireles go as he was one of kenny's better performers at the tail end of last season.
[/quote]So what you are saying is we HAD to get rid of Meireles (and to a lesser extent Cole and Aquilani) because we needed to recoup some of the 75m outlay on the inferior players we brought in to replace them, and/or because they wouldnt get a game on account of those inferior players now being first choice?
Yeah. Good one.
Thats really helped me put my bitterness into perspective.
[/quote]

the bottom line is that is exactly what has happened, at the time the yanks had spent 100m and I'm sure there was pressure on kenny to balance the books.
 
If he'd picked Maxi we wouldn't all be going on about how stupid the transfers were as we'd have won comfortably.

I hate football.
 
Maxi is sold I think mate, he's gone in January and its all signed and sealed, thats the only reason he can't be playing him, he doesn't want him injured and fuck the transfer up?
 
Does anyone want my fucking season tickets? I'll swap them for a bucket of vodka and a razor blade.
 
All I have to say after a long time of staying off the forum for various reasons is.......Maxi has scored 10 in his last 9 starts......when the team is lacking goals we should find a place for this kind of form....if it means coming on as a sub or starting I dont care....the fans were singing Maxi's name last night when he was warming up but KK decided to bring on Kuyt(who is better with Suarez the Carroll) and Downing who was overpriced.
If there was one thing I would say is that at least Maxi looks as though he wants to win with Liverpool and just for that commitment we owe him some game time and if he wants to stay why not give him a rolling contract which is bonus based rather then salaried?
 
[quote author=Asbo link=topic=47787.msg1439098#msg1439098 date=1323174774]
Maxi is sold I think mate, he's gone in January and its all signed and sealed, thats the only reason he can't be playing him, he doesn't want him injured and fuck the transfer up?
[/quote]For what? Hes got 6 months. What are protecting? 500k
FUCK THAT!
Kenny isnt playing him because hes a typical stubborn arsed manager who thinks he knows better than logic and statistical fact.
Hes not alone in that.
 
Re: Re: Dalglish on Maxi

[quote author=Binny link=topic=47787.msg1#msg1 date=1323177143]
His contract ends in 2013. Joined on 3.5 yr deal in Jan 2010.
[/quote]
Thanks Binny was about to mention that. Noticed it on football manager 2012.
Sure Maxi isnt our saviour and we cant for certain say that we would have won with him on the pitch but I do agree that Kenny is acting stubborn and I do feel sorry for Maxi.
Hope it doesnt affect his confidence but it should. Never seen this kind of treatment before.
Well maybe with regards to Aquaman....
 
Cripes!

Hes only played 58 games in total for us ....

Maxi Rodriguez



Birthdate: 02.01.1981
Birthplace: Rosario Argentina
Other clubs: Newell's Old Boys, Real Oviedo (loan), Espanyol, Atletico Madrid
Bought from: Atletico Madrid
Signed for LFC: 0 12.01.2010
International caps: 41/12 (6/2 at LFC) -03.07.2010


Liverpool debut: 16.01.2010
Last appearance: 29.11.2011
Debut goal: 25.04.2010
Last goal: 29.11.2011
Contract expiry: 2013
LFC league games/goals: 47 / 12
Total LFC games/goals: 58 / 14


He is deffo sold isn't he? I can't see any other explanation.................
 
Re: Re: Dalglish on Maxi

[quote author=Modo link=topic=47787.msg1439146#msg1439146 date=1323177842]
Hope it doesnt affect his confidence but it should. Never seen this kind of treatment before.
[/quote]

Ged did it to Fowler, multiple times

[quote author=Modo link=topic=47787.msg1439146#msg1439146 date=1323177842]
Well maybe with regards to Aquaman....
[/quote]

Utter balls.
 
Dreamy is picking the team.

Maxi doesn't deserve a starting place.

Lucas getting injured is a blessing in diguise.

Dreamy is picking the team.
 
[quote author=refugee link=topic=47787.msg1439151#msg1439151 date=1323178136]
[quote author=Modo link=topic=47787.msg1439146#msg1439146 date=1323177842]
Hope it doesnt affect his confidence but it should. Never seen this kind of treatment before.
[/quote]

Ged did it to Fowler, multiple times

[/quote]

It's not really comparable. They was a lot of outburst at the time, but the facts were that Fowler spent a lot of time injured, meaning the side could never be built around him, nor could he ever really fit in with Houllier style of play, also Heskey was actually good for a season. I'm not saying it was right, but you could understand the logic behind Fowler's treatment, whereas I cannot say the same about Maxi. He is far from a world beater, but he is effective, he does fit in with our style of play and he scores goals in an otherwise goal barren side. Kenny shouldn't be "tempted" to start him, he should be one of the first names down.
 
I don't understand the logic.

In every match hes played he's scored or generally just performed better than his counterparts.

There must be something we don't know?
 
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=47787.msg1439158#msg1439158 date=1323179071]
[quote author=refugee link=topic=47787.msg1439151#msg1439151 date=1323178136]
[quote author=Modo link=topic=47787.msg1439146#msg1439146 date=1323177842]
Hope it doesnt affect his confidence but it should. Never seen this kind of treatment before.
[/quote]

Ged did it to Fowler, multiple times

[/quote]

It's not really comparable. They was a lot of outburst at the time, but the facts were that Fowler spent a lot of time injured, meaning the side could never be built around him, nor could he ever really fit in with Houllier style of play. I'm not saying it was right, but you could understand the logic behind Fowler's treatment. I can't with this though. Maxi is far from a world beater, but he is effective, he does fit in with our style of play and he scores goals in an otherwise goal barren side. Kenny shouldn't be "tempted" to start him, he should be one of the first names down.
[/quote]

The injury argument has merit, but he still shouldn't have dropped him after he scored, which he did on multiple occasions in order to bring in a non goalscoring alternative in Heskey (and I'm convinced Ged was doing it on purpose to try and reduce the amount of anger from the fans when he sold him, keeping Fowler out of form made him a lot easier to sell).

Likewise selling Maxi the first teamer is a lot harder than selling Maxi the squad player.
 
I don't believe Kenny is desperate to sell Maxi. For what purpose?

You'd get little for him, he's not on high wages and he is still performing.
 
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=47787.msg1439158#msg1439158 date=1323179071]
[quote author=refugee link=topic=47787.msg1439151#msg1439151 date=1323178136]
[quote author=Modo link=topic=47787.msg1439146#msg1439146 date=1323177842]
Hope it doesnt affect his confidence but it should. Never seen this kind of treatment before.
[/quote]

Ged did it to Fowler, multiple times

[/quote]

It's not really comparable. They was a lot of outburst at the time, but the facts were that Fowler spent a lot of time injured, meaning the side could never be built around him, nor could he ever really fit in with Houllier style of play, also Heskey was actually good for a season. I'm not saying it was right, but you could understand the logic behind Fowler's treatment, whereas I cannot say the same about Maxi. He is far from a world beater, but he is effective, he does fit in with our style of play and he scores goals in an otherwise goal barren side. Kenny shouldn't be "tempted" to start him, he should be one of the first names down.
[/quote]

yep, saved me the bother. i've honestly never seen anything as blatant as the current maxi situation, at least not at LFC.
 
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=47787.msg1439162#msg1439162 date=1323179638]
I don't believe Kenny is desperate to sell Maxi. For what purpose?

You'd get little for him, he's not on high wages and he is still performing.
[/quote]

I haven't checked, but I assumed his wages would be quite high as he came on a free? He has spent money on wide players and they are going to get preference and its almost always the previous managers players that are forced out as a new manager tries to shape his team (and they will have to reduce the wage bill to comply with the new financial regulations).

EDIT: 90k reported here
http://www.1000goals.com/liverpool-must-cut-their-wages

and here
http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/opinion/blogs/mirror-football-blog/David-Maddock-on-Liverpool-Joe-Cole-Alberto-Aquilani-Maxi-Rodriguez-Cristian-Poulsen-Philipp-Degen-and-the-unlucky-13-costing-30m-a-year-that-Kenny-Dalglish-must-somehow-ship-out-before-buying-article746963.html
 
I would have thought Kenny was going to get Maxi on but, after Spearing got sent off, decided Kuyt would be a better 'defender' with his running and tracking back.


Just a thought.
 
I've seen a few games - too many, in fact - when Maxi has started and been infuriatingly ineffectual. And one or two when he's come on and not done much. Those memories stop me from ever feeling THAT optimistic about him. When he has had a great match I've been delighted but also mildly incredulous. So I don't feel remotely amazed that Kenny is cautious about using him. Then again, I realise, in this current context, that, until Maxi starts again and does nothing, he's the Great Good Thing, so all power to the exasperatingly mercurial talent.
 
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