Goodbye, title race (City post-match)

[LeTallecWiz]

I think that, given what the team achieved last year, the amount of brazen disrespect this year, especially in the media, has been contemptible. There's always a degree of schadenfreude when the champions struggle, but the eagerness this season to disregard every factor that's contributed to the decline and just poke Klopp with a stick has been appallingly cynical. I don't buy into any of the speculations concerning being 'found out,' 'losing the dressing roon' or whatever. The defence has been ripped apart, which as a consequence has ripped the midfield apart. It'll be different next year. This year we can either suffer or block the whole thing out. I'm inclined, now, to do the latter. But when we play Everton, we should destroy them for the damage they've done.

Yah it definitely feels that when watching, commentators are being absolute cunts ... It really pisses me off.

Yes, Everton need to get absolutely hammered. Either like Man U did to Soton, preferably with diving to win penalties too just to piss off their fans, or if we must, a comfortable 2-0 win but two reds near the end with Thiago breaking Richarlson and Gini breaking DCL ... "just football lads"

 

[jexykrodic]

If you're champions then you are always going to be a target should you falter - it goes with the territory.

To the outside world we should be humble and dignified as we go about fixing our own problems.

I think the Klopp call that 'we must turn from doubters to believers' should not be an empty slogan. We have plenty of great footballers and a great management team, I think we owe it to them to have a little more faith.

 

[HC]

The strangest part of is how at some point in the match, one of the dunderheads goes ' Well, they're missing the defence, any side would miss VVD' and then 40 minutes later its ' so where exactly is this Liverpool side going wrong?'

12 Months ago it was ' VVD is the reason this side has won the title' a year on and the media continually disregard just how much we miss his presence.

 

[Squiggles]

I've seen one game where that was true about Phillips, the game against Newcastle where he looked nervous in general, since then though he's been very impressive and in his last two games he was pinging great passes all over the place, so I don't really buy that he's not strong with the ball. He's certainly gotten better or more confident as he's got more games. Not to the point where it's just adequate, his passing was as good as that of any of our ball playing centre halves against Spurs and West Ham.

I agree with you that Phillips has certainly got better with games, and has generally deserved more game time this season. But we also haven't played against anyone who press like City. Teams have sat back against us all year, including the times Phillips has played. It's no coincidence that Alisson panicked when we were faced with it. It wouldn't have happened against another side. I also think Klopp is well-placed to judge press resistance in our defenders given our own forwards are famed for it, and Klopp can use that in training to test them.

 

[keniget]

I thought we played reasonably well for a side with injury issues and low on confidence. City were pretty disappointing and fortunately for them didn't have to work very hard to get their victory due to individual errors on our part. That might be because they too were missing players - so glad that De Bruyne was out.

As for the title race, I had no real expectations of us winning this game. We are a bit of a mess for all the reasons that have already been discussed and we just don't look like we have the mental fortitude required this season.

I'd love to know what's been going on behind the scenes for the last month. Klopp and the players did their jobs by making it to Jan with title hopes intact. At the point we should've been ready to sign some players ASAP. Instead we waited till our season was effectively over. It'd be nice to get some understanding of why.

 

[Best Believe It]

I'd love to know what's been going on behind the scenes for the last month. Klopp and the players did their jobs by making it to Jan with title hopes intact. At the point we should've been ready to sign some players ASAP. Instead we waited till our season was effectively over. It'd be nice to get some understanding of why.

Matip got injured for the rest of the season. Up until then Klopp's requests for another CB had been refused.

 

[rurikbird]

I agree with you that Phillips has certainly got better the more games he got, generally deserved more game time this season, but we also haven't played against anyone who press like City. No coincidence that Alisson also panicked when we were faced with it. Teams have sat back against all year, including the times Phillips has played. I also think Klopp is well placed to judge press resistance in our defenders given our own forwards are famed for it, and can use it in training.

That's a good point.

 

[TheRedCrusade]

so what are the realistic expectations for this season.

No domestic trophy.
Top 3 finish in the league?
Deep run in CL, may be semis, building for the next season?
Or anyone expects here to win us CL this season? realistically !

 

[LeTallecWiz]

so what are the realistic expectations for this season.

No domestic trophy.
Top 3 finish in the league?
Deep run in CL, may be semis, building for the next season?
Or anyone expects here to win us CL this season? realistically !

Finish top 4. Anything else is a bonus.

Top 4 is absolutely key.

 

[6TimesaRed]

so what are the realistic expectations for this season.

No domestic trophy.
Top 3 finish in the league?
Deep run in CL, may be semis, building for the next season?
Or anyone expects here to win us CL this season? realistically !

It would be quite the Liverpool thing to do.. tbf..

Winning the champions league against the odds..

Though sadly.. until the crowds are back.. we wont be winning trophies any time soon..

 

[Brizzle]

so what are the realistic expectations for this season.

No domestic trophy.
Top 3 finish in the league?
Deep run in CL, may be semis, building for the next season?
Or anyone expects here to win us CL this season? realistically !

I'm not sure it is an 'expectation' but for this to be worth it (with 'this' being the line we got that we are limiting Jan spending on a CB because we have big summer plans in the market) we need to keep our CL spot as it will have a material impact on our financial projections if we don't.

The rest is less important (not that there is much 'rest'). Stopping any other english team in the CL would be preferable, if we found ourselves drawn against any.

 

[tombrown]

Just wait for those "famous European nights at Anfield" ... oh

 

[Hansern]

I find the comments and articles of throwing Thiago under the bus wide of the mark.
Would love for someone to deep dive into the idea that he slows us down is actually true, I bet it isnt.

 

[ctlovesred]

After some serious data analysis I’ve concluded that what is slowing us down is the eternities our defenders and GK spend passing the ball back and forth with no apparent purpose.

 

[darkstarexodus]

I thought we were about good enough in the first half. Hendo and Fabs looked outstanding and aggressive in defence. Hendo also distributing the ball very well. Firmino was linking the play nicely. Fullbacks getting forward.

But we looked far more tentative in the second half and the entire line got caught ballwatching too often. The subs seemed poor choices at the time and turned out to be so. And Ali unfortunately had a mare of a half.

We'll see what this squad is made of by the way they respond. I've little hope for the remainder of the season other than qualifying for Champs League, but I expect them to play for pride and to keep their spots in the team.

 

[Squiggles]

I find the comments and articles of throwing Thiago under the bus wide of the mark.
Would love for someone to deep dive into the idea that he slows us down is actually true, I bet it isnt.

From what I've read it's mostly Mancs who are slightly bitter we got him over them and taken delight that he hasn't transformed us as Fernandes has done to them. They're all crawling out the woodwork on social media like nasty little cockroaches at the moment.

Thiago has had a mixed start. Poor yesterday, but there have been some decent performances, too. I get the vibe he'll be great once the whole team is clicking, making runs, and playing well, but isn't the sort to drag us over the line when we need it, In short, if we're playing Thiago we need the grit of Henderson and Fabinho next to him. Having him and Curtis Jones for the at least one of the 8 spots is covered for years, IMO.

 

[Richey]

I didn't think we were too bad in the first half either, and after we equalised we were starting to look pretty good. Obviously then it all fell apart.

We have obviously had a bloody awful start to the year, and the season is over in terms of the title, but it is worth remembering (as hard as it is to remember it right now!) that it was only a few weeks ago that we put in a few really good performances against Spurs and West Ham. That was on the back of a few shit results and people were saying then that we were back in business. The quality is still there and we can still have a decent second half of the season.

 

[Richey]

From what I've read it's mostly Mancs who are slightly bitter we got him over them and taken delight that he hasn't transformed us as Fernandes has done to them. They're all crawling out the woodwork on social media like nasty little cockroaches at the moment.

Thiago has had a mixed start. Poor yesterday, but there have been some decent performances, too. I get the vibe he'll be great once the whole team is clicking, making runs, and playing well, but isn't the sort to drag us over the line when we need it, In short, if we're playing Thiago we need the grit of Henderson and Fabinho next to him. Having him and Curtis Jones for the at least one of the 8 spots is covered for years, IMO.

Yes, it is. I remember Gary Neville proclaiming with glee the other week that it was like when they signed Veron - good player but didn't suit the system at all.

No recognition at all of the fact that Thiago has been available to start less than 10 games, has been injured, had coronavirus, and has barely had the chance to play with in the midfield that he was meant to be part of, or with the defence that he was meant to play in front of.

He's worth sticking with in my opinion.

 

[rurikbird]

It would be quite the Liverpool thing to do.. tbf..

Winning the champions league against the odds..

Though sadly.. until the crowds are back.. we wont be winning trophies any time soon..

To be honest, I couldn't give a shit about CL this year... As much as the EPL seems fake and surreal, the European league is doubly so, especially now with all the changes of venues due to travel restrictions. Give me top 4 and we can end the season today.

 

[tomasjj]

Yes, even with our makeshift central defense, we were doing fine and was matching them until the subs fucked us over.

 

[Markeh]

To be honest, I couldn't give a shit about CL this year... As much as the EPL seems fake and surreal, the European league is doubly so, especially now with all the changes of venues due to travel restrictions. Give me top 4 and we can end the season today.

amen

 

[moron]

From what I've read it's mostly Mancs who are slightly bitter we got him over them and taken delight that he hasn't transformed us as Fernandes has done to them. They're all crawling out the woodwork on social media like nasty little cockroaches at the moment.

Thiago has had a mixed start. Poor yesterday, but there have been some decent performances, too. I get the vibe he'll be great once the whole team is clicking, making runs, and playing well, but isn't the sort to drag us over the line when we need it, In short, if we're playing Thiago we need the grit of Henderson and Fabinho next to him. Having him and Curtis Jones for the at least one of the 8 spots is covered for years, IMO.

Did not think he was poor yesterday, in the absence of Fab, and Henderson in midfield - he was the best we could have. The game turned when he and Curtis came off.

 

[moron]

I don't usually post a thread on here as most things have been said regarding the state of the team, but I have to say - it really fucking hurts the mind how our fortunes have turned since beating Palace and standing top at Christmas. With all this lockdown - for me and many others I suspect - football has been one way of occupying the mind and passing the time what seems like some never ending prison sentence (or house arrest). I was really fucking upset yesterday when I saw the look on Klopp's face at the interview stage, he looked like a man that was either just sad, containing his inner rage and at the same time clueless as to what is wrong with the team.

I can't get my head around how this is gone just so fucking bad - like none of it makes any sense to me. Yesterday's game was in may ways a representation of the season so far, all going well and trying to keep on top and then due to some bad decision making - the whole thing just turns upside down. Honestly don't you just sometimes feel like smashing the TV or shouting at the players "what the f*ck is wrong with you guys ?" -- they really need to sort their shit out, there was enough quality on that pitch yesterday on our side to do something against those stiffs. They really need to be angry in that final third.

 

[Frogfish]

Good discussion. You might not like Macca, Lescott and Owen but they talk a lot of sense here (reiterating what some of us have said on this forum) :

 

[Frogfish]

From what I've read it's mostly Mancs who are slightly bitter we got him over them and taken delight that he hasn't transformed us as Fernandes has done to them. They're all crawling out the woodwork on social media like nasty little cockroaches at the moment.

Thiago has had a mixed start. Poor yesterday, but there have been some decent performances, too. I get the vibe he'll be great once the whole team is clicking, making runs, and playing well, but isn't the sort to drag us over the line when we need it, In short, if we're playing Thiago we need the grit of Henderson and Fabinho next to him. Having him and Curtis Jones for the at least one of the 8 spots is covered for years, IMO.

I totally disagree Thiago was poor yesterday. In what was not the strongest midfield his influence was clear from what happened once he and Jones came off : from looking like we could win we disintegrated within minutes as Shaq. and Millie were nowhere near as strong or ball retentive. We literally lost the midfield in an instant. That doesn't indicate Thiago was having a poor game at all.

In a disjointed team lacking confidence (esp. up top) he was metronomic in retaining possession, skipping past a player or two and distributing to continue pressing forward (some of his chips and passes wide were lovely to watch). I only saw him lose possession 2 or 3 times. However don't expect miracles if some of the players around him are not moving, not creating & not making the right runs (there was an interesting comment one of the studio commentators made regarding Mane too often moving to the centre, therefore being on top of their CBs and so not creating either width or space).

 

[Brizzle]

The good thing is that the only thing that truly matters in this weird weird season is retaining our play in the CL. We now have the ability to field our best players in the best positions. The other teams in 2nd - 6th are all showing signs of being just as fragile, i'm confident we can brush this off in the next two games and once through these two we will put in a very good spell to the end of the season.

2021/22 season we'll be back, and perhaps going in when we perform best - underdogs and written off.

 

[TheRedCrusade]

My realistic expectations are for the season:

1. We must finish in top 3. Just fucking imagine finishing behind scums where Ole was about to get sacked just before few games. If dumb Ole can turn it around just because of Bruno and Cavani. If Rodgers, the eternal bottler can hang around there around top 2, why can't we! Giving this perspective so that I still think we have a brilliant team apart from CBs probably but I still think we can manage games as we have managed brilliantly in 2 or 3 games so far. Klopp will find answers like he did after losing Coutinho. People should try to remember how dumb, stupid and mixed feelings we had because over the years we have kept on losing players and it did not feel good and we managed to come out of it pretty well. For me there is huge difference between that 4th spot and 3rd spot. I dont want to play qualifiers in case of it is still applicable. Dont want to have that feeling going into the next season where we somehow barely scraped to manage the 4th spot.
2. I desperately want to play ManCity in CL and fucking destroy them so bad; forcing bald fraud getting sacked. Over the top there but we have always performed good in knockouts under Klopp. Pep not even reaching final is a massive failure for many of the City fans as for them CL matters much more compared to EPL, the same way we wanted to win EPL title a bit more than CL. That desperation. So let's go for it.
3. At same time, we need to use this season to find answers whether we have an home grown solution after losing Gini. Jones can be honed in such a way that he can be that silky midfielder (directly learning from Thiago probably) but still having that Brexit grit and steel in him like Hendo/Milner. Jones or Trent need to start taking more leadership as we need to find someone very soon for Hendo's role, in the long term.
4. Front 3. A decision has to be made whether Klopp needs to freshen up a bit there. Take a gamble again, find another Mane/Salah for 30-50m or go for a player like Mbappe/Haaland. Jota has been brilliant so far but that is the decision whether we are fine with him or want even more. I hope Klopp signs a Mbappe/Haaland and thereby build a squad to win more than a single trophy - CL, EPL, FA Cup/Club world cup/any other mickey mouse cup. Wouldn't it be nice to hear Klopp built a treble winning team during his reign !

 

[moron]

Good discussion. You might not like Macca, Lescott and Owen but they talk a lot of sense here (reiterating what some of us have said on this forum) :

Really good that one - thanks for posting - I think they pretty much said what most of us here are thinking and were thinking during that game. But I still get this feeling Klopp will chicken out of playing our new defenders on Saturday. If he does then God help us, also it is fair to say that most of the time when that setup has looked ok - which is like 95% of the times - it's because the opposition are all sitting back and not attacking us even when they get the chance. So in reality the stat I saw a few weeks ago about us minimizing the shots we face (only 2nd to City) - suggests that regardless of how well Henderson/Fab + one other have played - they have not really been wildly tested by the opposition.

 

[Frogfish]

Yes, it is. I remember Gary Neville proclaiming with glee the other week that it was like when they signed Veron - good player but didn't suit the system at all.

No recognition at all of the fact that Thiago has been available to start less than 10 games, has been injured, had coronavirus, and has barely had the chance to play with in the midfield that he was meant to be part of, or with the defence that he was meant to play in front of.

He's worth sticking with in my opinion.

Not only Gary Neville, half this forum too !

 

[rurikbird]

Thiago is doing his job. Hendo looking impressive by these metrics too.