Goodbye, title race (City post-match)
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Which blows away the naysayers on here. He is so far ahead of Fernandes & De Bruyne etc. on virtually every metric. And look at Hendo too, awesome. Now we just need to turn that into goals.
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He's clearly a top player but he's not had much impact, however you dress it up, in terms of goals and results.
He needs a good midfield alongside him, but being ahead of the pack in the "risky passes" stakes means nothing if a) we're not wining games and b) it's resulted in zero goals.
He's a great player, anyone can see that, but his "actual" impact has been minimal, he's hardly transformed the way we play, has he? So no, it doesn't blow away the naysayers. We're still missing Jordan Henderson massively, and he has plenty of naysayers knocking about.
He needs a good midfield alongside him, but being ahead of the pack in the "risky passes" stakes means nothing if a) we're not wining games and b) it's resulted in zero goals.
He's a great player, anyone can see that, but his "actual" impact has been minimal, he's hardly transformed the way we play, has he? So no, it doesn't blow away the naysayers. We're still missing Jordan Henderson massively, and he has plenty of naysayers knocking about.
Some naysayers of some players will never, ever be blown away mate!
That said, I think it is fair that the jury is still out on Thiago. I personally think it's fair to judge once he has had a bit of time in something resembling the midfield he was bought to be part of.
I think in terms of his performances it's a vindication, since many have been knocking him and saying his performances were poor, which clearly they weren't. As for the team performances, you can only do your bit and of course you are reliant on the forwards doing theirs, which they haven't been of late.
We all know how much the loss of players and injuries has affected us but it's nice to see those stats and fantasise about how those performances will inspire us once we get our injured players back and Hendo & Fabs playing in their strongest positions.
I think you're both right. Performance-wise Thiago has been doing the job he's been brought in to do, but the ultimate measure is results and objectively our the results nosedived at roughly the same time he came back into the team. The "vindication" will be when Thiago becomes an integral part of an effective, winning midfield.
Quite, and Thiago is probably the perfect example of the intricacies that have been disrupted by the whole issue with the defense and our injuries.
Losing our three best centre backs is one thing, then we have two of our best midfielders plugging the gaps, leaving holes in midfield. Then we have a newcomer to midfield, playing alongside different players each week, without the stable backbone that would otherwise be provided by Henderson and/or Fabinho. So Thiago is doing much more donkey work, whereas having the aforementioned defensive stability would allow him to express himself where it matters.
Then the defense drops back several yards because it lacks the pace/technical ability to play that high-line, so Thiago drops deeper, Milner/Gini/Shaqiri all drop too to try to fill gaps - the midfield has naturally dropped deeper in tandem with the defense and has a larger area to cover, because the attack are still playing their pressing game, without the back up of the midfield, so Firmino drops to get possession, the whole thing falls apart and the gaps that our makeshift side are trying to plug, inevitably opens up more and more holes to plug, more and more gaps for the opposition to exploit. Trent doesn't get the same support he gets from Henderson. Robbo is pushed back more and asked to defend more, so can't link effectively with Mane, and so on and so on. Meanwhile there's a fucking big gap for teams to bypass around (or over) in midfield. We try to push higher, but it's blatantly obvious that a quick punt forward puts us under pressure and creates havoc.
It's not an easy fix, particularly mid-season, but it's worrying that should we lose the pace at the back, we don't have an effective alternative. We either try to play the same way with the wrong players and get crucified, or we try to compensate for weak areas and we get crucified.
It's lose/lose at the minute.
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But did results nosedive due to Thiago not being on his game or because say Jota, Fabs and Matip went down injured ? Or because Hendo moved into the back 4 and Thiago has had to do more defending? Or just because the team is all over the place with players playing out of position?
I've just picked out some media quotes without consideration for good/bad or source.
Thiago
Bought 20th Sept.
Chelsea 0-2 Liverpool : came on an set a record in a masterclass of control
Out with Covid missing 2 matches.
Everton 2-2 Liverpool : but we should have won of course.
Thiago vs Everton made 76 Passes which was the most of any player on the pitch. Off those passes he recorded a 92% passing accuracy . Of 25 attempted passes into the final third Thiago completed 21 which was more than any other player on the pitch. Thiago recorded the most interceptions in the game and completed 7 successful challenges in total. The midfield maestro completed 4/4 one versus one dribbles and created two goal scoring opportunities directly. The Spanish international picked up the man of the match award for a stand out performance. Stats supplied by Stats Zone!
Richarlison's horrendous red-card worthy challenge puts Thiago out with a knee injury for 2 months until 30th Dec. vs Newcastle away.
Newcastle 0-0 Liverpool (Thiago 17 mins as sub) (Fabs & Phillips as CBs)
91.3% passing accuracy 2 clearances 1 interception 6/6 long balls completed 5/5 aerial duels won 1/1 ground duels won 17 minutes. If only he started the game.
Southampton 1-0 Liverpool (Hendo & Fabs CBs)
Thiago ineffective.
FAC Villa Kids 1-4 Liverpool (Fabs & Rhys as CBs)
Thiago played 2nd half in place of Hendo. Givemesport : Everything changed at half-time (1-1). That’s because a certain Thiago Alcantara came off the bench to replace Henderson. Now, we are fully aware that Thiago was playing against a load of kids. But his 45-minute performance was an absolute joy to watch.
Liverpool 0-0 United (Hendo & Fabs CBs)
Rousing the Kop :
Thiago made his home debut against Man United at the weekend and the Spaniard didn’t disappoint. The midfielder made 96 passes with an accuracy of 86.5%, two of them key passes. He registered 122 touches – more than any other player on the pitch and 53 more than Luke Shaw’s 69, the most touches for any United player.
We also saw Thiago ghost past opposition, completing five dribbles in the game.
SKY : In his first appearance for Liverpool at Anfield, Thiago offered plenty of evidence of his undoubted class, controlling the game at times in midfield. His ability to glide away from markers with a shift of balance and that willingness to fire passes forwards helped to get Liverpool on the front foot. Almost marked it with a goal with a fine long-range effort.
Liverpool 0-1 Burnley (Matip & Fabs CBs. Hendo didn't play)
TIA : Liverpool just played the way Burnley wanted. Thiago had the ball 85 times against Burnley – fewer than Xherdan Shaqiri, who didn’t play the final ten minutes. Andy Robertson and Trent Alexander-Arnold had the ball 114 and 119 times, respectively. No one else even reached 90. Liverpool just attacked down the wings, put crosses into the box and watched as Burnley registered 52 clearances.
United 3-2 Liverpool FAC. (Rhys & Fabs CBs. Hendo didn't play)
He perhaps had too much on his plate at the base of Liverpool's midfield (#6 not his best position - with Jones & Milner ahead of him), not just getting his side ticking but quelling United counter-attacks, something he struggled to do.
Spurs 1-3 Liverpool (Hendo & Matip CBs. Fabs didn't play)
TIA : With Gini deeper, Thiago was a little more advanced. A few silly early fouls but again his ability to dictate play and switch the game was on show. The more movement we have in attack, the better we’ll see him look. Took a head injury and subbed later on.
SKY : 7/10 Surely the best passer in the Premier League. There was a moment in the first half when he pinged a crossfield pass with the outside of his foot purely, it seemed, just for the sheer fun of it. Cautioned for a rather rash tackle, his evening ended early after a nasty clash of heads, but with Thiago it's all about the passing.
West Ham 1-3 Liverpool (Hendo & Philips CBs. Matip & Fabs didn't play)
Rushthekop : Although the Spaniard wasn’t at his utmost creative best (he did pick out an unreal ball to Origi in the first half), that is not the reason he gets a seven.
His reading of the game and delightful interceptions was seriously brilliant and reinforced the fact that he is not just a silky footballer. He has the potential under Jurgen Klopp to become not only a genius but a machine.
Liverpool 0-1 Brighton (Hendo & Philips CBs. Matip & Fabs didn't play)
A poor game. Maybe his only poor game in 12 appearances (3 as sub.).
Echo : Put himself about but passing a bit too safe during opening period. Failed to grasp the initiative properly when Liverpool needed it and disappeared towards end.
Liverpool 1-4 Man City (Hendo & Philips CBs. Matip & Fabs didn't play)
Me : He and Jones had us in the ascendancy in a match we had to fight tooth and nail to get an edge in ... until Klopp subbed them off for the totally ineffective Shaq. and Milner. Maybe costing us the match.
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