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Is Benteke good enough?

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darkstarexodus

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Mike Goodman looks at Benteke's statistics and how he really is doing exactly what he did at Villa. Which doesn't seem to be working here.


[article]
Is Christian Benteke good enough for Liverpool under Jurgen Klopp?

Jurgen Klopp says it's difficult to find the right players, and Christian Benteke could be a prime example of why.
Accepted wisdom can change incredibly quickly, especially when it comes to transfers. Over the summer, when Liverpool bought Christian Benteke for £32.5 million, the price might have seemed high, but there were very few questions about the player they were getting. Benteke was a skilled finisher with both his feet and his head as well as a physically gifted player, big and strong enough to hold the ball up, and fast enough to run in behind defenses.

It's been a rough six months for Benteke, though. He has only six goals to his name so far this season, and everybody's thinking has changed. He's no longer a well-rounded striker; instead, he's an obvious stylistic mismatch, who might have struggled to fit in under previous manager Brendan Rodgers and will be woefully out of place with the even more energetic style instituted by Jurgen Klopp. So, what happened?

The first thing to note is that Benteke's overall production hasn't actually dropped off all that much. Last season at Aston Villa, he was scoring 0.46 goals per 90 minutes on the field. This season at Liverpool, he's scoring 0.44, a scoring rate that puts him at 10th in the league this season (among players who have played more than 900 minutes). He's generating a high number of shots 3.06 per 90 this season (the second-highest of his career), up from 2.83 last season. At least from an output standpoint, he is exactly what he has always been in the attack.

The problem is that Benteke's production looks very different in the context of Liverpool than in the context of Aston Villa. At Villa, those 2.83 shots per game were 26 percent of the team's total while Benteke was on the field, the sixth-highest load of any player with at least 1,800 minutes. Yes, he's shooting more at Liverpool, but he's taking a lower percentage of his team's shots, only 21 percent, a steep drop-off that puts him way down the league in 28th place among players with 900 minutes or more of playing time.

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Benteke is generating more shots and touches at Liverpool than Aston Villa, but so are his teammates.
So while he may be shooting more than he did at Aston Villa, he's not shooting enough to keep him from seeming lost in Liverpool's attack. The trend is even more noticeable when it comes to Benteke's overall involvement. Last year at Villa, he averaged 5.45 touches per 90 minutes in the penalty area, a whopping 34.4 percent of his team's total penalty-area touches with him on the field. That figure led the league in 2014-15. This year the touches are up to 6.62, but the percentage is down to 25.7 percent.

That might not be a bad thing if his mere presence was helping Liverpool generate good shots in other ways. But Liverpool don't do that. They are one of the most prolific shooting teams in the Premier League; only Manchester City has taken more shots than Liverpool's 324. But they're only eighth in expected goals at 29.06. It's not as if defenses are reacting to the threat of Benteke, which in turn opens up prime opportunities for the likes of Philippe Coutinho, Roberto Firmino and Adam Lallana. Rather, the rotating cast of attackers who play alongside Benteke are letting fly from hither, thither and yon, and not getting any benefit from the goal scorer in front of them. And Benteke is seeing just about as much of the ball as he did with Villa despite playing for a Liverpool team that spend a lot more time in their opponent's half.

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While Benteke was stranded on moribund Villa teams, the question was always: What could he do with a good team around him? The concern now is that the answer to that question is: the same thing he did at Aston Villa. It's possible that Benteke's skill set is conducive to creating chances when there's no other option, but that he's less suited to being in a team that are already creating lots of shots but needs to somehow turn those mediocre (at best) chances into better scoring opportunities. Benteke created shots for himself where none would have existed otherwise. Now that he's in the land of plenty, that skill becomes redundant.

That's not to write Benteke off. Six months really isn't a long time to learn to play well with others when you've spent four years carrying the burden all by yourself. That's especially true when those six months have seen a major coaching change and a heavy dose of injury upheaval. A year from now, Benteke could be just another piece that snaps into place for Klopp's Liverpool. Right now, he's a major concern. And the worry isn't that he's a flop. He's not a flop. The worry is that since coming to Liverpool, Benteke has been exactly what he's always been, and that might just not be good enough for Liverpool.

Mike L. Goodman is a Washington DC based soccer writer and analyst covering primarily European soccer. Follow him on Twitter@TheM_L_G.

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[/article]

http://www.espnfc.us/club/liverpool...ke-is-same-player-at-liverpool-as-aston-villa
 
Benteke's a difficult player to rate overall because he is, and always has been, streaky. At his best he can be a monster, definitely good enough for LFC, while at his worst he can be a statue and equally definitely not up to standard. I'd want to reserve judgment until Klopp's had more time to work with him.
 
I like benteke but I like klopps style of forward line better, so I reckon it'll be curtains for benteke but for a manager/team that can play do his style will definitely pay dividends.
 
Benteke's a difficult player to rate overall because he is, and always has been, streaky. At his best he can be a monster, definitely good enough for LFC, while at his worst he can be a statue and equally definitely not up to standard. I'd want to reserve judgment until Klopp's had more time to work with him.
If you can't rush to judgment by now I'm wondering how you've survived on this site so long.
 
Benteke's a difficult player to rate overall because he is, and always has been, streaky. At his best he can be a monster, definitely good enough for LFC, while at his worst he can be a statue and equally definitely not up to standard. I'd want to reserve judgment until Klopp's had more time to work with him.

Agree completely. He can be summed up in 2 games - beating us in the FA Cup semi last year and being a useless, ineffectual beer crate full of shit in the final against Arsenal.

I do think it's interesting that despite most LFC fans finding him a bit underwhelming, he is performing essentially to his normal level as shown during his time with Villa. Gives credence to the notion that he is not the player we need to challenge at the top end of the table, at least not with the current nonscoring midfielders tucked in behind him
 
This is why i like Goodman.

Do you see the way he explains the differences between playing for Liverpool and Villa with stats ?
 
This is why i like Goodman.

Do you see the way he explains the differences between playing for Liverpool and Villa with stats ?

Totally agree. His grantland articles were consistently insightful. Good use of stats to support or refute the eye test
 
If Danny Ings & studge was fit he'd be on the bench that's for sure. So you'd think he'd be turning on the stylee but he can't be arsed.
 
I really think there's something in the Heskey comparison.

He's simply not mobile or intelligent enough for this system. He'll be gone in the summer.
 
This is why i like Goodman.

Do you see the way he explains the differences between playing for Liverpool and Villa with stats ?

No, I don't? His stats seem redundant and they make his other points seem broken up and difficult to read.

Benteke is shit. That works. Benteke is 0.45 times more shit. That is silly.

The point is that using your eyes would tell you Benteke was going to be shit. Stats would have said the opposite, because they are useless and laughably inaccurate. This guy is selecting stats after the fact to support the obvious truth. That does not mean they have any use or predictive value.
 
Well Heskey was far better in his first season but then he seemed to completely lose his head and confidence.
Benteke is reminding me of Morientes.
Slow,brainless and half arsed.
He really needs an excellent last few months or he'll surely have no future here.
 
I am not a Benteke fan (at all) but quite hard to criticise him tonight beyond some fuck-awful first touches (which the pitch didnt help),

If the argument is "Benteke is shit", fine. If the argument is "Benteke was shit tonight" I dont get it. Should be "Benteke was completely ineffectual through lack of service, had his customarily shite first touches, but moved into the channels and tried to influence play more than normal".

Also: thought the article at the top (whilst not mind-blowing) made some interesting points to be fair.
 
I am not a Benteke fan (at all) but quite hard to criticise him tonight beyond some fuck-awful first touches (which the pitch didnt help),

If the argument is "Benteke is shit", fine. If the argument is "Benteke was shit tonight" I dont get it. Should be "Benteke was completely ineffectual through lack of service, had his customarily shite first touches, but moved into the channels and tried to influence play more than normal".

Also: thought the article at the top (whilst not mind-blowing) made some interesting points to be fair.

Yea but he played Exeter City. This was the lowest point of his career with us to date.
 
Yea but he played Exeter City. This was the lowest point of his career with us to date.
Then youve not been watching them enough mate: he hasnt earned the moniker "lampost" for his dynamic movement thus far this season....
 
He was made captain for the night, hardly..

Which just makes it lower. What I mean is that he is "running the channels" against Exeter City is a joke. He should have scored 3 or 4 goals. Instead he ran, and fell over.
 
He was embarrassingly poor tonight.

The likes of Suarez, Torres, Owen and Sturridge would have scored a hattrick today, and barely have broken a sweat. Just their sheer quality would have shown.

Benteke has some excellent qualities, but he will never be a world class striker. His touch is too poor and his off-the-ball movement is execrable.
 
He was embarrassingly poor tonight.

The likes of Suarez, Torres, Owen and Sturridge would have scored a hattrick today, and barely have broken a sweat. Just their sheer quality would have shown.

Benteke has some excellent qualities, but he will never be a world class striker. His touch is too poor and his off-the-ball movement is execrable.
To be fair though, all of those players were dynamic enough to make their own opportunities if no one was giving them any supply, Benteke simply cant (and a Benteke low on confidence DEFFO cant).

Dont get me wrong, im not saying he was anywhere approaching good tonight, just that his under par performance for once wasnt mostly his own fault
 
He was embarrassingly poor tonight.

The likes of Suarez, Torres, Owen and Sturridge would have scored a hattrick today, and barely have broken a sweat. Just their sheer quality would have shown.

Benteke has some excellent qualities, but he will never be a world class striker. His touch is too poor and his off-the-ball movement is execrable.

Even Gerrard of last season would have had a bigger impact.
 
He summed up his attitude on about 85 mins where he had the ball at his feet on the the left edge of their area. He kept it and tried to dribble past four or five defenders when he could have laid someone in. Not good enough.
 
The club and management deserve an equal amount of abuse thrown at them as Benteke for his ineffectual performances. We identified him as our top target. We knew the player we were getting. This wasn't a last minute gamble like Ballotelli. We wanted this cunt for months and yet there was never a plan for us to adapt to him. The onus was all placed on him. How does that conversation go? "Hi Christian, we've got a huge Luis Suarez shaped hole in our attack, so can you just transform yourself into something like that? Ah go on, give it a go!

When doubts were raised about the signing Woland responded saying we were overthinking it. It'll be fine! That's fine on a football forum. The worrying is I think something similar was said to at our board room.

The truth is Benteke was signed because he guaranteed goals to a manager who needed them to cling onto his job before he could build a new side. Lets also not pretend Benteke was ever going to be central to that new side. He was a £30M+ stop-gap signing. Rodgers wouldn't have kept him long term either.

No other club would be so stupid enough to a) fail to see that and b) sanction the fee. It's a shambles all round.
 
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The club and management deserve an equal amount of abuse thrown at them as Benteke for his ineffectual performances. We identified him as our top target. We knew the player we were getting. This wasn't a last minute gamble like Ballotelli. We wanted this cunt for months and yet there was never a plan for us to adapt to him. The onus was all placed on him. How does that conversation go? "Hi Christian, we've got a huge Luis Suarez shaped hole in our attack, so can you just transform yourself into something like that? Ah go on, give it a go!

When doubts were raised about the signing Woland responded saying we were overthinking it. It'll be fine! That's fine on a football forum. The worrying is I think something similar was said to at our board room.

The truth is Benteke was signed because he guaranteed goals to a manager who needed them to cling onto his job before he could build a new side. Lets also not pretend Benteke was ever going to be central to that new side. He was a £30M+ stop-gap signing. Rodgers wouldn't have kept him long term either.

No other club would be so stupid enough to a) fail to see that and b) sanction the fee. It's a shambles all round.

Yes, pretty much this.
 
if he was smarter with regards to MOVEMENT, he'd be fine for us ... but he seems absolutely thick (or lazy?) in that department, so no good for us.
Would be ideal for Atleti - hopefully $ and Saul or Oscar for him.
 
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