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Is Minamino good enough?

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Jaysis, I could play for Liverpool if pressures is the metric. “You can’t sing, you can’t play. You look awful. But you can pressure. You’ll go a long way”.
Have a KitKat, @localny
The problem for me with minamino seems to be that he does not command the respect and confidence of his teammates, and that he never seems to go looking for, or demand the ball. In the number 8 role you think of a player that wants to add urgency, aggression and creativity to the game, but the game just seems to pass him by, and he's okay with it. It's like he's okay with a draw. That winning the game isn't important. His mentality needs to change.
 
From the way Klopp talks, it sounds like the transition to the #8 position is a permanent one for the foreseeable future for Minanimo and it's probably the right move in this situation. Clearly the biggest problem in his game is the inability to hold on to possession when challenged – I think there is no other player in the squad, including the youngsters, who gets shoved off the ball more easily than Minamino. So the only way to help him regain some confidence is to move him back, where there is more space to turn, the pressure is less fierce and there are more teammates around to lay the ball off to. Klopp did a similar thing with Lallana and it worked; Lallana is famous for his turns and Minamino's signature move is receiving the ball on the turn. Playing at #8 will allow him more space to do that and to play his natural short passing game, while his tireless pressing can also be an asset, as we saw against Midtjylland.

So Klopp seems to have found currently the best position for his misfiring attacker, but is it a step forward for Minamino? I think it's a step back, but a necessary one. It's an acknowledgment that the original plan and the reason he was signed – to supplement our front 4 and become a quality understudy to Bobby – has been a failure. Playing at #8 in those occasional appearances will probably allow him to regain some confidence, where his creativity will once again hopefully shine through, but we hardly need another neat and tidy midfielder and by my count there will be 7-8 players ahead of him in the pecking order in that position: Gini, Keita, Hendo, Thiago, Jones, Milner, and possibly Shaqiri and Ox as well. So he won't get a lot of playing time other than cup games and "garbage time" in games that are beyond doubt; for his sake he should use that time well. He needs to get stronger and learn from the likes of Gini, Salah and Jota how to ride challenges and use the opponents' aggression against them.

He kinda did a similar thing with Gini too, I remember we all raised an eyebrow at Lallana and Gini starting a season as the two anchors in midfield, but it sort of worked in a sense that it helped us to form our counterattacking patterns of play, we could quickly turn defense into attack. Not via a quick long ball onto a pacey player, but a shoulder drop on the edge of our box from Gini or Lallana, followed by a few quick short passes to break through the opposition. It was a masterstroke in a way and kind of helped raise questions about the need for an ever-present definitive anchor.

That said, we do play a more reserved and possession based approach now in centre midfield, but I think it was a healthy progression.
 
Why - he's not a caveman defender who can hoof the ball 200 yards, nor is he a neanderthal striker who can get on the end of it.

Maybe Jack would admire his ability to occupy the midfield while watching the match pan out 20 yards above his head

Put’em under pressure....
 
If you can tolerate the bits of self-referring and self-admiring guff, this piece makes some very good points, in quite a brutally direct way, about his problems:

https://www.liverpool.com/liverpool...umi-minamino-liverpool-tactics-klopp-19439348

Here's an edited version:


Minamino does not have a strong positional sense. From the moment he arrived, he has struggled to fit into Liverpool’s carefully crafted structure. He has failed at two basic principles: Do not run alongside your teammate; do not stand in the same vertical strand.

Here he is in his Premier League debut against Wolves last January:

1_pjimage.jpg

And here is now, against Brighton a fortnight ago:

0_Minamino-Compliation.png

That's just from the opening 20 minutes; the compilation runs on and on (look at the spacing/verticality of the rest of the team for an idea of the Klopp Rules).

It's the same issue. Sometimes, you're treated to both at once -- shutting down space for his teammate and taking away a passing lane by standing in the same vertical plane (which is a standard principle for a possession-oriented side and is how Liverpool beat the press).

0_Minamino-Two-Rules-At-Once.png

And his body positioning has been, in general, brutal: He fails to play on the half-turn or to shield the ball, instead opting to receive it straight on -- a no-no at the top-level. By doing so, he is always taking an extra beat, gathering the ball from his feet, and so stilts the rhythm of the attack rather than injecting some verve of chaos into the proceedings.

These are not minor tweaks that need to be made or the result of a minutes-issues. These are fundamental flaws; the kind of flaws that have every chance of being even more exposed as he is moved over from the right-hand side (which was a whiff) into a more central, deeper-lying role.


Minamino’s role was and is always going to be different than Jota’s -- his value always indicated he would be a rotational option who, ideally, could spell Firmino as the false nine in certain situations and toggle between a couple of other positions. But that he’s rarely been given that brief suggests more about Minamino and his ability that it does his lack of luck in picking up minutes with the core group.

It’s been a calendar year now -- admittedly, a weird one; even more so for a player coming from a different country-- but that oomph, that spark that made Liverpool trigger his £7.25 million release clause has been all-but non-existent.

Moving Minamino to the eight spot isn’t a desperate, last resort. But it does indicate a manager who still does not know what to do with a player.



Minamino will get more time -- but we’re closing in on the point of no return: This is who he is, and that player, with those specific issues, is not someone a manager can rely on.
 
If you can tolerate the bits of self-referring and self-admiring guff, this piece makes some very good points, in quite a brutally direct way, about his problems:

https://www.liverpool.com/liverpool...umi-minamino-liverpool-tactics-klopp-19439348

Here's an edited version:


Minamino does not have a strong positional sense. From the moment he arrived, he has struggled to fit into Liverpool’s carefully crafted structure. He has failed at two basic principles: Do not run alongside your teammate; do not stand in the same vertical strand.

Here he is in his Premier League debut against Wolves last January:

1_pjimage.jpg

And here is now, against Brighton a fortnight ago:

0_Minamino-Compliation.png

That's just from the opening 20 minutes; the compilation runs on and on (look at the spacing/verticality of the rest of the team for an idea of the Klopp Rules).

It's the same issue. Sometimes, you're treated to both at once -- shutting down space for his teammate and taking away a passing lane by standing in the same vertical plane (which is a standard principle for a possession-oriented side and is how Liverpool beat the press).

0_Minamino-Two-Rules-At-Once.png

And his body positioning has been, in general, brutal: He fails to play on the half-turn or to shield the ball, instead opting to receive it straight on -- a no-no at the top-level. By doing so, he is always taking an extra beat, gathering the ball from his feet, and so stilts the rhythm of the attack rather than injecting some verve of chaos into the proceedings.

These are not minor tweaks that need to be made or the result of a minutes-issues. These are fundamental flaws; the kind of flaws that have every chance of being even more exposed as he is moved over from the right-hand side (which was a whiff) into a more central, deeper-lying role.


Minamino’s role was and is always going to be different than Jota’s -- his value always indicated he would be a rotational option who, ideally, could spell Firmino as the false nine in certain situations and toggle between a couple of other positions. But that he’s rarely been given that brief suggests more about Minamino and his ability that it does his lack of luck in picking up minutes with the core group.

It’s been a calendar year now -- admittedly, a weird one; even more so for a player coming from a different country-- but that oomph, that spark that made Liverpool trigger his £7.25 million release clause has been all-but non-existent.

Moving Minamino to the eight spot isn’t a desperate, last resort. But it does indicate a manager who still does not know what to do with a player.



Minamino will get more time -- but we’re closing in on the point of no return: This is who he is, and that player, with those specific issues, is not someone a manager can rely on.

I am not going to disagree with none of the above. We all see and notice different things in watch games, and maybe I have failed to notice these things you have named...

But maybe some of you have also failed to notice things that I have noticed...

Maybe it is a combination of all these things.

Like like the player, But If we are not going to sort out the problems both he and we are having with his play, then I see little point in keeping him
 
Last edited:
If you can tolerate the bits of self-referring and self-admiring guff, this piece makes some very good points, in quite a brutally direct way, about his problems:

https://www.liverpool.com/liverpool...umi-minamino-liverpool-tactics-klopp-19439348

Here's an edited version:


Minamino does not have a strong positional sense. From the moment he arrived, he has struggled to fit into Liverpool’s carefully crafted structure. He has failed at two basic principles: Do not run alongside your teammate; do not stand in the same vertical strand.

Here he is in his Premier League debut against Wolves last January:

1_pjimage.jpg

And here is now, against Brighton a fortnight ago:

0_Minamino-Compliation.png

That's just from the opening 20 minutes; the compilation runs on and on (look at the spacing/verticality of the rest of the team for an idea of the Klopp Rules).

It's the same issue. Sometimes, you're treated to both at once -- shutting down space for his teammate and taking away a passing lane by standing in the same vertical plane (which is a standard principle for a possession-oriented side and is how Liverpool beat the press).

0_Minamino-Two-Rules-At-Once.png

And his body positioning has been, in general, brutal: He fails to play on the half-turn or to shield the ball, instead opting to receive it straight on -- a no-no at the top-level. By doing so, he is always taking an extra beat, gathering the ball from his feet, and so stilts the rhythm of the attack rather than injecting some verve of chaos into the proceedings.

These are not minor tweaks that need to be made or the result of a minutes-issues. These are fundamental flaws; the kind of flaws that have every chance of being even more exposed as he is moved over from the right-hand side (which was a whiff) into a more central, deeper-lying role.


Minamino’s role was and is always going to be different than Jota’s -- his value always indicated he would be a rotational option who, ideally, could spell Firmino as the false nine in certain situations and toggle between a couple of other positions. But that he’s rarely been given that brief suggests more about Minamino and his ability that it does his lack of luck in picking up minutes with the core group.

It’s been a calendar year now -- admittedly, a weird one; even more so for a player coming from a different country-- but that oomph, that spark that made Liverpool trigger his £7.25 million release clause has been all-but non-existent.

Moving Minamino to the eight spot isn’t a desperate, last resort. But it does indicate a manager who still does not know what to do with a player.



Minamino will get more time -- but we’re closing in on the point of no return: This is who he is, and that player, with those specific issues, is not someone a manager can rely on.
That seems fair, although I would disagree with the author that it's something he cannot improve. There's just a race to write off players. We surely knew he was not the finished article and needed development. Not easy when there's so little training time, but I wouldn't bet against Klopp making an effective player out of Taki.
 
I really want him to succeed
But
He's slow
He doesn't take up many decent positions players don't trust him

He won't be here long
 
Thought he did quite well today. Did the usual role of one of our midfield 3.

Nothing spectacular, but broke up play well, showed for the ball and moved it on OK.

This is a step forward.
 
Harsh but as of now fair.

I still think there's a footy player in there. I still think there's a demolitions expert in Lucas.
 
He has not looked like the player we thought we were getting, although I do think he deserves more time.

He has to do more in the opportunities he is getting though, as soon as Keita is fit enough he will drop below him in the pecking order like he already has with Jones.
 
I suppose we have to remind ourselves that we're the best football team in the world, so when someone isn't quite up to scratch it doesn't mean they're shit. It just means they probs aren't getting nominated for the balloon doors.
 
One swallow does not make a summer, nor does one goal make Minamino. At least he stays fit and is available unlike some of the players we have
 
Yeah he shoulda buried that easier chance in the second half but hopefully he'll be a bit more confident now
 
I thought he played absolutely fine and scored a good goal.

The one he missed was in part created by a very good touch by him.

It was very satisfactory for a stand on.

Faint praise I know but it meets the criteria for a stand in, and he will get better.
 
His run into the middle also created space for Firminos second. He put in a clinical finish and generally looked more in sync than ever before.

Today was his best day for us and a step forward.
 
I can't help but think that he should have taken the shot first time. He gave the defenders a chance they shouldn't have had.

But it was eventually a good finish and he needs to build on it.
 
Yeah he shoulda buried that easier chance in the second half but hopefully he'll be a bit more confident now

His movement and touch to create the chance was sublime.

His movement to drag the CB out of position for Firmino’s second was fantastic too.
 
I can't help but think that he should have taken the shot first time. He gave the defenders a chance they shouldn't have had.

But it was eventually a good finish and he needs to build on it.
I thought that too, but then their defender had slid in right at the point of his first touch so a first time shot may well have been blocked.
Very pleased for him anyway.
 
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