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Kenny's handling of Carroll

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I see this both ways. Is ManU's weakness really strong tall physical players? No, so why play him?


On the other hand, obviously we should have more than just that, for the money. In fact for less we bought a player capable of beating Man U on his own. We had crouch as that option player, for much less, and still people thought we overpaid.
 
I'm with Farky, we didn't need Carroll cos he's not the type of player that would have troubled them IMO, they were lined up with strength & height from the start, esp playing Jones in CM.

Maybe once Utd made their changes it may have been an option, but we were playing well, & I was convinced we were gonna score, so why risk changing a side that looks like it's going to win?
 
[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=47183.msg1412745#msg1412745 date=1318759219]
I'm with Farky, we didn't need Carroll cos he's not the type of player that would have troubled them IMO, they were lined up with strength & height from the start, esp playing Jones in CM.

Maybe once Utd made their changes it may have been an option, but we were playing well, & I was convinced we were gonna score, so why risk changing a side that looks like it's going to win?
[/quote]

For this individual game and say a one off situation that might be fair enough ....but when you look at the bigger picture , how can you afford to have a £35m striker who is so specialised that he can only be used in certain situations and conditions . That's just crazy . And i'm not really blaming carroll for this , it falls as much if not more on the management as they spent the money but can't seem to fit him into the style they want to play .
 
[quote author=RedZeppelin link=topic=47183.msg1412769#msg1412769 date=1318763927]
[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=47183.msg1412745#msg1412745 date=1318759219]
I'm with Farky, we didn't need Carroll cos he's not the type of player that would have troubled them IMO, they were lined up with strength & height from the start, esp playing Jones in CM.

Maybe once Utd made their changes it may have been an option, but we were playing well, & I was convinced we were gonna score, so why risk changing a side that looks like it's going to win?
[/quote]

For this individual game and say a one off situation that might be fair enough ....but when you look at the bigger picture , how can you afford to have a £35m striker who is so specialised that he can only be used in certain situations and conditions . That's just crazy . And i'm not really blaming carroll for this , it falls as much if not more on the management as they spent the money but can't seem to fit him into the style they want to play .
[/quote]

exactly. whether he should've come on is besides the point - the problem is that we've spent £35m on someone with severe limitations.

i can't say more than if we had the opportunity to reverse the deal - pay £15m and carroll to get torres back - then i'd absolutely snap your hand off.
 
You could argue it's horses for courses, that said, look at the crosses that went in in the last 10 minutes. Who would you rather had been on the end of them? Carroll or (with all due respect), Henderson?

Starting the game with Gerrard and Suarez was probably a good ploy because we needed to retain possession and playing Carroll would probably have promoted long ball stuff, but at the end of the game we didn't need to be so subtle and he was needed. I think it was a bit of a mistake on Kenny's part not getting him on the pitch for the last 10 minutes or so.
 
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=47183.msg1412777#msg1412777 date=1318765514]
You could argue it's horses for courses, that said, look at the crosses that went in in the last 10 minutes. Who would you rather had been on the end of them? Carroll or (with all due respect), Henderson?

Starting the game with Gerrard and Suarez was probably a good ploy because we needed to retain possession and playing Carroll would probably have promoted long ball stuff, but at the end of the game we didn't need to be so subtle and he was needed. I think it was a bit of a mistake on Kenny's part not getting him on the pitch for the last 10 minutes or so.
[/quote]


you see for the life of me i don't get this , why does his presence on the pitch mean we have to hoof it ? Why can't a professional footballer resist the urge to boot it long to a big man ? If the reason is because it's the only way he can play then again it goes back to the argument that he's too limited in abilities and isn't the style of football we want to play .
 
Yes, let's only play him against teams that don't have tall defenders. The Premier League's littered with teams like that. He'll come into his own then.

2 problems with that:
1 - We don't play football that results in balls coming into the box regularly with height. Which is a minor issue I suppose.
2 - And I lied above; nearly every team in the Premier League is actually capable of defending high balls in the box.

It's like Stevie Wonder buying himself a cinema.
 
STEVEN GERRARD has taken Liverpool and England colleague Andy Carroll under his wing.

The £35million record signing from Newcastle has struggled for form and fitness this season with manager Kenny Dalglish rarely handing him a starting place.

With Wayne Rooney suspended for the first three games of Euro 2012, Carroll needs more matches to force his way into Fabio Capello’s team.

And Liverpool skipper Gerrard has been spelling out to the 6ft 3in hitman just what he can achieve for Liverpool and England.

An Anfield source said: “Andy knows that as a £35m signing he should be one of the first names on Kenny Dalglish’s starting team sheet, but at the moment this isn’t happening for him.

“But he’s desperate to do well and gets first-class advice from Kenny. But now Stevie G has taken Andy under his wing and the big man is hanging on his every word.”
Click to expand...
 
[quote author=Binny link=topic=47183.msg1415520#msg1415520 date=1319337116]
STEVEN GERRARD has taken Liverpool and England colleague Andy Carroll under his wing.

The £35million record signing from Newcastle has struggled for form and fitness this season with manager Kenny Dalglish rarely handing him a starting place.

With Wayne Rooney suspended for the first three games of Euro 2012, Carroll needs more matches to force his way into Fabio Capello’s team.

And Liverpool skipper Gerrard has been spelling out to the 6ft 3in hitman just what he can achieve for Liverpool and England.

An Anfield source said: “Andy knows that as a £35m signing he should be one of the first names on Kenny Dalglish’s starting team sheet, but at the moment this isn’t happening for him.

“But he’s desperate to do well and gets first-class advice from Kenny. But now Stevie G has taken Andy under his wing and the big man is hanging on his every word.”
Click to expand...
[/quote]

I knew this would happen.

He did the same for Crouch and even Torres. Torres didn't need much advise anyway, but Stevie played a big part in integrating him to the team. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that Stevie can do what he did to Torres and Crouch (he want on to becoming a England regular at one point). Carroll certainly has more potential than Crouch.

Torres has worked through his form and fitness and he looks physically as good as he ever was with us, but i doubt he will reach the heights he reached while playing for us....One of the reasons for that would be because Stevie does not play for Chelsea.
 
Its a joke. Not just his treatment of Carroll (score = get dropped) but his treatment of Suarez who is cutting a lonely and frustrating figure doing a job he just isnt suited to.
We need to play the two together.
 
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47183.msg1415562#msg1415562 date=1319358496]
Its a joke. Not just his treatment of Carroll (score = get dropped) but his treatment of Suarez who is cutting a lonely and frustrating figure doing a job he just isnt suited to.
We need to play the two together.
[/quote]

You typed this "treatment" shite all summer long about Aquilani too. There's a fucking reason why he isn't playing.
 
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47183.msg1415562#msg1415562 date=1319358496]
Its a joke. Not just his treatment of Carroll (score = get dropped) but his treatment of Suarez who is cutting a lonely and frustrating figure doing a job he just isnt suited to.
We need to play the two together.
[/quote]

completely
I don't know what kenny must be seeing on the pitch. it was the same against utd last week. Suarez was completely isolated and against good defenders struggled to make a huge impact. Against norwich he tried the best he could (and should have scored) but still, he's getting marked so strongly. When carroll came on his physical presence caused some issues
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=47183.msg1415568#msg1415568 date=1319359268]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47183.msg1415562#msg1415562 date=1319358496]
Its a joke. Not just his treatment of Carroll (score = get dropped) but his treatment of Suarez who is cutting a lonely and frustrating figure doing a job he just isnt suited to.
We need to play the two together.
[/quote]

You typed this "treatment" shite all summer long about Aquilani too. There's a fucking reason why he isn't playing.
[/quote]

if he wasn't playing and we were scoring for fun the benching would be justified. we aren't scoring for fun.
 
As good as Suarez is, he aint cut out to lead the line as a sole striker. He needs help. Carroll has got to show an appetite for the game is that's what Kenny is looking for and perceives to be lacking.
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47183.msg1415572#msg1415572 date=1319359436]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=47183.msg1415568#msg1415568 date=1319359268]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47183.msg1415562#msg1415562 date=1319358496]
Its a joke. Not just his treatment of Carroll (score = get dropped) but his treatment of Suarez who is cutting a lonely and frustrating figure doing a job he just isnt suited to.
We need to play the two together.
[/quote]

You typed this "treatment" shite all summer long about Aquilani too. There's a fucking reason why he isn't playing.
[/quote]

if he wasn't playing and we were scoring for fun the benching would be justified. we aren't scoring for fun.
[/quote]

^^^
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=47183.msg1415568#msg1415568 date=1319359268]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47183.msg1415562#msg1415562 date=1319358496]
Its a joke. Not just his treatment of Carroll (score = get dropped) but his treatment of Suarez who is cutting a lonely and frustrating figure doing a job he just isnt suited to.
We need to play the two together.
[/quote]

You typed this "treatment" shite all summer long about Aquilani too. There's a fucking reason why he isn't playing.
[/quote]

Ergo, he's shit? Plenty of good players have been messed around by managers, Rafa did it, Ged did it, it doesn't always mean the player isn't good enough, managers are often guilty of poor judgement and bad man management, as we well know, we've seen enough of it over the last 20 years.
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47183.msg1415572#msg1415572 date=1319359436]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=47183.msg1415568#msg1415568 date=1319359268]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47183.msg1415562#msg1415562 date=1319358496]
Its a joke. Not just his treatment of Carroll (score = get dropped) but his treatment of Suarez who is cutting a lonely and frustrating figure doing a job he just isnt suited to.
We need to play the two together.
[/quote]

You typed this "treatment" shite all summer long about Aquilani too. There's a fucking reason why he isn't playing.
[/quote]

if he wasn't playing and we were scoring for fun the benching would be justified. we aren't scoring for fun.
[/quote]

Ah yes, Andy Carroll - scorer of 3 league goals in 7 months.
 
And Berbatov was the top goalscorer in the league last year, couldn't even get in the CL final squad and can't get a fucking look in now. Managers treat players exactly how they want, you lot need to stop being so fucking precious.

Kenny spent 35M on Big Dunc and now doesn't play him. What does that tell you?
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=47183.msg1415583#msg1415583 date=1319359821]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47183.msg1415572#msg1415572 date=1319359436]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=47183.msg1415568#msg1415568 date=1319359268]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47183.msg1415562#msg1415562 date=1319358496]
Its a joke. Not just his treatment of Carroll (score = get dropped) but his treatment of Suarez who is cutting a lonely and frustrating figure doing a job he just isnt suited to.
We need to play the two together.
[/quote]

You typed this "treatment" shite all summer long about Aquilani too. There's a fucking reason why he isn't playing.
[/quote]

if he wasn't playing and we were scoring for fun the benching would be justified. we aren't scoring for fun.
[/quote]

Ah yes, Andy Carroll - scorer of 3 league goals in 7 months.
[/quote]

Even more bizarre is that in those 7 months, he's made 7 starts exactly. So three in seven, not bad.
 
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=47183.msg1415585#msg1415585 date=1319360032]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=47183.msg1415583#msg1415583 date=1319359821]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47183.msg1415572#msg1415572 date=1319359436]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=47183.msg1415568#msg1415568 date=1319359268]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47183.msg1415562#msg1415562 date=1319358496]
Its a joke. Not just his treatment of Carroll (score = get dropped) but his treatment of Suarez who is cutting a lonely and frustrating figure doing a job he just isnt suited to.
We need to play the two together.
[/quote]

You typed this "treatment" shite all summer long about Aquilani too. There's a fucking reason why he isn't playing.
[/quote]

if he wasn't playing and we were scoring for fun the benching would be justified. we aren't scoring for fun.
[/quote]

Ah yes, Andy Carroll - scorer of 3 league goals in 7 months.
[/quote]

Even more bizarre is that in those 7 months, he's made 7 starts exactly. So three in seven, not bad.
[/quote]

Mark, you've watched him play for us, and you know football - so don't act fucking stupid.
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=47183.msg1415584#msg1415584 date=1319359942]
And Berbatov was the top goalscorer in the league last year, couldn't even get in the CL final squad and can't get a fucking look in now. Managers treat players exactly how they want, you lot need to stop being so fucking precious.

Kenny spent 35M on Big Dunc and now doesn't play him. What does that tell you?
[/quote]

And? United look just as dangerous without berbatov in the team and score. We look ponderous and don't score. I don't fucking know why kenny isn't playing carroll but if hes having regrets then its pathetic. He was injured for 6 months, and now he's not picked because...why? Dirk runs about? gerrard is back in the team? We need to fit adam in? I don't fucking care. the point is what we're doing right now isn't working and we need to change it.

Our main issue is goals so we bring on a striker who generally isn't absolute cunt before christmas.
 
I'm not, I'm taking the piss. It's fairly obvious he doesn't fit, but we're not scoring goals and not playing particularly well either, there are players waiting in the wings that should come in, the team needs a shake up.
 
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=47183.msg1415588#msg1415588 date=1319360164]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=47183.msg1415584#msg1415584 date=1319359942]
And Berbatov was the top goalscorer in the league last year, couldn't even get in the CL final squad and can't get a fucking look in now. Managers treat players exactly how they want, you lot need to stop being so fucking precious.

Kenny spent 35M on Big Dunc and now doesn't play him. What does that tell you?
[/quote]

And? United look just as dangerous without berbatov in the team and score. We look ponderous and don't score. I don't fucking know why kenny isn't playing carroll but if hes having regrets then its pathetic. He was injured for 6 months, and now he's not picked because...why? Dirk runs about? gerrard is back in the team? We need to fit adam in? I don't fucking care. the point is what we're doing right now isn't working and we need to change it.

Our main issue is goals so we bring on a striker who generally isn't absolute cunt before christmas.
[/quote]

No, our main issue is that we spent a clean fortune on the wrong players.
 
Yup. All we can hope to salvage now is that we accidentally stumble across something that works. We're still thee or four players shy of a good team, we might have a decent squad but about 3/4 of it is much of a muchness.
 
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=47183.msg1415589#msg1415589 date=1319360188]
I'm not, I'm taking the piss. It's fairly obvious he doesn't fit, but we're not scoring goals and not playing particularly well either, there are players waiting in the wings that should come in, the team needs a shake up.
[/quote]

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Albert Einstein
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=47183.msg1415568#msg1415568 date=1319359268]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47183.msg1415562#msg1415562 date=1319358496]
Its a joke. Not just his treatment of Carroll (score = get dropped) but his treatment of Suarez who is cutting a lonely and frustrating figure doing a job he just isnt suited to.
We need to play the two together.
[/quote]

You typed this "treatment" shite all summer long about Aquilani too. There's a fucking reason why he isn't playing.
[/quote]I think youre thinking of someone else. I quite clearly said a number of times in summer that if Rafa, Roy AND Kenny didnt fancy Aquilani something must be not right there.
I wanted him to stay but I didnt complain about his 'treatment'
I think the treatment of Carroll is poor, and the scoring the being dropped thing is a fucking nightmare reminscent of Keane.
I also think Maxi is being really hard done by. And even Spearing to a lesser extent.
But regarding your Aquilani point I STILL think it was poor judgement to let him go and then sign Henderson for 17m I dont think its helped us at all. Aquilani WAS our best player in pre-season AND has a goal and three assists already this term so im pretty sick thinking that Downig and Henderson and Adam have come in for about 45m and Aquilani, Meireles and to a lesser extent Cole are plying their trade elsewhere for an 8m gain.
So that coupled with Maxi and Carroll being benched has fucked me off.
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=47183.msg1415584#msg1415584 date=1319359942]
And Berbatov was the top goalscorer in the league last year, couldn't even get in the CL final squad and can't get a fucking look in now. Managers treat players exactly how they want, you lot need to stop being so fucking precious.

Kenny spent 35M on Big Dunc and now doesn't play him. What does that tell you?
[/quote]


That they fucked up !!!! buying a player for that amount of money when he'd hardly any premier league experience and then realising he's not up to it and doesn't even fit into the tactics they want to play .
 
I could understand it against Utd, as we wanted a 5 man midfield. Thats fair enough.
But not playing him yesterday was just awful tbh.
If Kennys trying to teach him a lesson about his working mentality or something, then I really hope he knows what he's doing.
 
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