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More pace for next season?

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Glen C said:
I don't see how you can compare him to them at all. Whenever he gets the ball all he thinks about is shooting. He'll just try shooting from ridiculous angles when a simple pass to a teammate is the better option. he's not a good team player at all. Even for Portugal he does the same shit. Zidane was better than him.
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I don't think he's a great team player is, and yes, he does shoot a lot (FYI - Messi does this too, to the tune of almost 40% of Barca's shots). But what he's doing with goals scored is just fucking incredible. Zidane was a maestro, a magician on the pitch - one of the top, if not the top, player of his generation. I just think the way footy is going & Ronaldo's goalscoring only set to continue (& probably improve), Ronaldo's name will be in the 'greatest of all time' conversation far more than Zidane's (rightly or wrongly)
 
LeTallecWiz said:
I think Ronaldo, when he's done, will be compared to Maradona and Pele ... People would be doing that now if it wasn't for that flea.
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He won't. Hardly anyone seriously believes he's even the best player in the world, let alone one of the best ever.
 
peterhague said:
He won't. Hardly anyone seriously believes he's even the best player in the world, let alone one of the best ever.
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People rave on, and rightly so, about what Torres did for us over those few years ... Now imagine almost doubling that year in, year out ... He's doing things that are just unheard of ... well, would be if it wasn't for Messi.

I still wouldn't place him with the two I've mentioned - but he will be imo.
 
LeTallecWiz said:
I don't think he's a great team player is, and yes, he does shoot a lot (FYI - Messi does this too, to the tune of almost 40% of Barca's shots). But what he's doing with goals scored is just fucking incredible. Zidane was a maestro, a magician on the pitch - one of the top, if not the top, player of his generation. I just think the way footy is going & Ronaldo's goalscoring only set to continue (& probably improve), Ronaldo's name will be in the 'greatest of all time' conversation far more than Zidane's (rightly or wrongly)
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But Messi also works hard for the team and is a proper team player. He just doesn't think about shooting but playing for team. Ronaldo will never be thought of as the greatest of all time as he will always be inferior to messi.
 
Glen C said:
But Messi also works hard for the team and is a proper team player. He just doesn't think about shooting but playing for team. Ronaldo will never be thought of as the greatest of all time as he will always be inferior to messi.
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@keniget - do you agree with the fact that Messi 'works hard for the team'? I've watched numerous games where he barely does any tracking back ...
 
LeTallecWiz said:
People rave on, and rightly so, about what Torres did for us over those few years ... Now imagine almost doubling that year in, year out ... He's doing things that are just unheard of ... well, would be if it wasn't for Messi.

I still wouldn't place him with the two I've mentioned - but he will be imo.
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He just won't. He'll be remembered as an exeptional, machine-like goalscorer and great athlete, but not as better than Cruyff, Zidane, Best etc. There's always a bias towards present day players in thinking about the best ever, so if Ronaldo isn't even seen in that light now - and he isn't even close to being -then he certainly won't be in the future.
 
LeTallecWiz said:
@keniget - do you agree with the fact that Messi 'works hard for the team'? I've watched numerous games where he barely does any tracking back ...
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I'm struggling to come to an assessment I feel 100% in providing.

I do recall him tracking back quite a bit in the past and he definitely engages in their high pressing game as a lot of goals have come from him winning the ball of the defender.

I'm not sure if these days he tracks back as much because he plays in that floaty false 9 position and it's probably not his role to do that.
 
peterhague said:
He just won't. He'll be remembered as an exeptional, machine-like goalscorer and great athlete, but not as better than Cruyff, Zidane, Best etc. There's always a bias towards present day players in thinking about the best ever, so if Ronaldo isn't even seen in that light now - and he isn't even close to being -then he certainly won't be in the future.
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+ being a giant asshole.
 
peterhague said:
He just won't. He'll be remembered as an exeptional, machine-like goalscorer and great athlete, but not as better than Cruyff, Zidane, Best etc. There's always a bias towards present day players in thinking about the best ever, so if Ronaldo isn't even seen in that light now - and he isn't even close to being -then he certainly won't be in the future.
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Spot on.
 
Hes a fucking cabbage.
Top tier is just THREE players.
Riiiiight.
 
Of course if we're throwing greats in to the hat, surely ferenc puskas needs a little love
 
StevieM said:
I'm surprised KHL isn't all over this thread with a list of mighty Danes in the top tier!
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HERE IT COMES!

There are obviously no Danes in the top tier with the likes of Maradona, Zidane, Messi, Pele, Cruyf and Beckenbauer but I guess you could include four or five in the 2nd tier level.

Big Jan, The Laudrups (Michael more so than Brian), Schmeichel and Allan Simonsen.
 
Herr Onceared said:
Hes a fucking cabbage.
Top tier is just THREE players.
Riiiiight.
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When you ask people who the GOAT is, most people either say Pele or Maradona ... Those are the top two and that's 'the peak' ... Everyone wants to join 'em ...

It's like the discussion in the NBA - you have Jordan and then everyone else (Wilt, LeBron etc) fighting to either join him or be 2nd ...
 
LeTallecWiz said:
When you ask people who the GOAT is, most people either say Pele or Maradona ... Those are the top two and that's 'the peak' ... Everyone wants to join 'em ...

It's like the discussion in the NBA - you have Jordan and then everyone else (Wilt, LeBron etc) fighting to either join him or be 2nd ...
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I believe there's a distinct possibility that Messi will eventually be looked upon as the greatest ever.
 
Players like Best, Cruyff and Dalglish thought so quickly, and reacted so quickly, they gained a yard on most defenders without needing much actual pace. Kenny, for example, was arguably the first to really work out how to watch for shadows cast by floodlights to anticipate defenders coming towards him from behind and he'd spin a few seconds early and leave them for dead. Cruyff - who used the fact that he had legs like a wishbone to twist around defenders like a piece of elastic- was brilliant at sudden explosive tricks that gave him plenty of space. I don't remember Best, sadly, but from what I've seen on film he did have good pace off short distances, and of course that's generally all he needed. I think those skills are most valuable in the top teams, because opponents tend to defend so deep and en masse there's no room to use your pace in the sense of bombing on, so being able to create space is the most crucial quality of all, and when it happens it certainly LOOKS pacy!
 
Speed of thought and acceleration are important, a high top speed is less essential
 
LeTallecWiz said:
When you ask people who the GOAT is, most people either say Pele or Maradona ... Those are the top two and that's 'the peak' ... Everyone wants to join 'em ...

It's like the discussion in the NBA - you have Jordan and then everyone else (Wilt, LeBron etc) fighting to either join him or be 2nd ...
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The GREATEST of all time (singular) is a different conversation than which players are in the top bracket.
Not for Dreamy of course. But then he got lost and fucked up and now hes grasping around and claiming he meant the GREATEST of all time.
He didnt, hes just thick as pigshit.
 
Zidane is one of my favourites of all time as i just enjoyed watching him play. He made it look so easy and it was if the ball just stuck to his foot. Very rarely gave the ball away to the point that when he did the commentator actually said "made a note of that zidane actually made a bad pass". He was a true magician with the ball and certainly a lot better than c.ronaldo.
 
LeTallecWiz said:
Ok - Dreamy is getting into a wee pickle, but when debating the 'greatest players of all time,' people will debate between Maradona and Pele (and now some are adding Messi) ... That's all he's saying - they are the 2 or so most dominating players ever, and the rest are slightly below them. I don't get what all the fuss is about ... If you asked people to list the two best players ever, would Cruyff, Baresi, Maldini etc make the list? Nope, but are they excellent players who were world class and just slightly below Pele and Maradona? I'd think every sane person would say yes.
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But that's not what Dreamy was saying - and in any case the "top tier" of players should be those considered the best of their generation or in their position.

You can't make the "top tier" just about supremely gifted forwards.

it's like saying Torres was a better player than Hansen because he scored more.
 
Yassis Andy you're harsh on dreamy.

Stevie - I guess I did misread it, I thought his 'top tier' claim was about the best players ever and that's why he didn't include the other players (which I thought wasn't that bad).
 
I'm waiting on Dreamy to tell us Jose Mourniho is the only manager in the top tier - with everyone else in the history of football management just below him..... again!!!
 
Of course pace is important, we went a few years where we had alot of technically gifted players but zero pace in key attacking areas. It cost us over and over again. Just look at the new dimension Torres gave to the side, we've never looked back since then and have always had a fair bit of pace in attack since, you can't argue with the difference statistically. Some players are a bit brain dead yeah, the likes of Babel and Cisse who are kick-and-run, but the likes of Owen and Torres had the technique to go with it - it's a bit of a myth and a tad harsh to say Owen was all pace, it was a big part of his game but his movement and positioning was also excellent. His injuries didn't just take away his speed, it took away his agility too.
 
Herr Onceared said:
The GREATEST of all time (singular) is a different conversation than which players are in the top bracket.
Not for Dreamy of course. But then he got lost and fucked up and now hes grasping around and claiming he meant the GREATEST of all time.
He didnt, hes just thick as pigshit.
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Thank you for talking for me. You really are a horrible horrible person sometimes. I feel sorry for you.
 
StevieM said:
I'm waiting on Dreamy to tell us Jose Mourniho is the only manager in the top tier - with everyone else in the history of football management just below him..... again!!!
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Ha, nah Jose while being my no1 choice at the moment if I had the choice, is nowhere near that honour.

Greatest manager of all time is a much harder 1 to debate imo.
 
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