O Captain my Captain

[the count]

Andy Robertson: “When our crowd sung that song ["We're gonna win the league"] as emphatically as they did we had to believe it, of course we did. If you said you didn’t believe it, you’d be lying.”
—
“Actually, there may have been one exception: Jordan Henderson.”
—
"During this period Hendo was so focused & driven that I don’t think he could have got caught up in the excitement if someone had knocked at his door with the trophy and said it was done. To say he was in the zone would be one of the understatements of the season. At Melwood, his influence was absolute. He literally didn’t have to say anything. He could have remained silent because the example he was setting on the training pitch and in games was so powerful that words were no longer required. He got us through some of those games with a combination of strength of character and individual talent. He just took it to another level, showing just why he is captain of this club by keeping us all together and being our leading force."
—
“He deserves greater credit for his ability. When I retire I'll look back and say he was one of the most underrated players I played with. Take away his leadership, work-rate, & effort - his footballing quality is good enough to captain & play for one of the great LFC teams.”

 

[Dreambeliever]

Over statement on his ability but absolutely a great captain and example to any young pro.

 

[dantes]

No shit, he was there the first time the crowd sang that and left him with wounds which will never heal.

 

[Aidan O' Neill]

Over statement on his ability but absolutely a great captain and example to any young pro.

Not really. He's a fantastic footballer

 

[the count]

Not really. He's a fantastic footballer

It's fantastic when an article is posted saying how a player is underrated and straight away someone comes on and underrates them

 

[jimmy]

No shit, he was there the first time the crowd sang that and left him with wounds which will never heal.

Exactly.
He's the only player in our squad that was the in May 2014 when it all blew up in our faces.
I only said we won it when we actually won it. Not a second earlier.

 

[SummerOnions]

It's fantastic when an article is posted saying how a player is underrated and straight away someone comes on and underrates them

You would indeed bet your money on the person steamrolling in to underrate them... And you wouldn't cash out either

 

[dantes]

Exactly.
He's the only player in our squad that was the in May 2014 when it all blew up in our faces.
I only said we won it when we actually won it. Not a second earlier.

You respect quantum mechanics.

 

[reuque]

Exactly.
He's the only player in our squad that was the in May 2014 when it all blew up in our faces.
I only said we won it when we actually won it. Not a second earlier.

I think he might even feel personally responsible for the slip at that time too even. He was suspended for the Chelsea game after we managed to win against City courtesy of a Coutinho goal. It was for a stupid card too as we were winning at that time and the situation was covered if he hadn't made that tackle. One could argue had he played in the Chelsea game, maybe the team wouldn't have been frustrated too soon because we couldn't manage to break down Mourinho's bus park formation. Then the slip happened...

 

[Farkmaster]

It's fantastic when an article is posted saying how a player is underrated and straight away someone comes on and underrates them

It's an incorrect statement, though. You take away any midfielders work ethic, and effort and they can't play in our midfield. Take away henderson's and ask him to run on pure technique and no one knows who he is.

 

[Aidan O' Neill]

It's an incorrect statement, though. You take away any midfielders work ethic, and effort and they can't play in our midfield. Take away henderson's and ask him to run on pure technique and no one knows who he is.

You could literally say that about any player. No player runs purely on technique. Even playmakers like Xabi Alonso had a great work ethic.

 

[Judge Jules]

I don't think there was a serious suggestion that a Hendo without the work ethic and effort could actually play in our midfield. What I read Robbo as saying is that Hendo's native ability doesn't need to be amplified by those other considerations to justify being rated high enough for a team in our position.

And Dreamy presuming to know better on the subject is breathtaking even by his standards.

 

[MaBigTip]

And Dreamy presuming to know better on the subject is breathtaking even by his standards.

Not really. That empty headed blowhard swore up and down that City were favourites this year and that they were still worth worrying about well into last season. He thinks he knows everything about everything and spreads it like wildfire. And don't forget him saying Naby's Liverpool career was done last year and that Klopp has lost faith. The nerve of the wet wet dreambeliever...

 

[Actonian]

I think he might even feel personally responsible for the slip at that time too even. He was suspended for the Chelsea game after we managed to win against City courtesy of a Coutinho goal. It was for a stupid card too as we were winning at that time and the situation was covered if he hadn't made that tackle. One could argue had he played in the Chelsea game, maybe the team wouldn't have been frustrated too soon because we couldn't manage to break down Mourinho's bus park formation. Then the slip happened...

We were hardly home and dry in that game, leading by a goal after City had already come back from 2 down. What we shouldn't forget is that he had to make the tackle because he was sold short by a dreadful pass from Victor Moses. How good is it that we don't have to tolerate wasters like that in our squad any more?

 

[Red Astaire]

Well there is no doubt about his absolute class. He’ll finish his career here I think. He’s already stamped his status as a legend and one of LFCs finest captains. Too early to talk about now but he seems the kind of person who would suit management. I wonder if Old bacon face is still overly concerned about his gait.
Also to think we very nearly lost him for Clint Dempsey....

 

[Farkmaster]

You could literally say that about any player. No player runs purely on technique. Even playmakers like Xabi Alonso had a great work ethic.

Of course, but some more than others, and saying that a lazy henderson could fall back on his technique is wrong. Robbo is exactly the same.

 

[Aidan O' Neill]

Nobody ever said a lazy Henderson could fall back on his technique alone. They said his ability is underrated. Lazy players don't get carried in football these days

 

[My_Blood_Bleeds_Red]

I’ve no doubt Hendo would be world class and win a lot more if it wasn’t his gait. [emoji2960]

 

[Dreambeliever]

It's fantastic when an article is posted saying how a player is underrated and straight away someone comes on and underrates them

I’m a huge fan but that last sentence is rubbish from Andy. There are very few players that played for Liverpool where their footballing ability alone made them good enough to captain Liverpool. Henderson isn’t one of them. It’s all the other aspects that Robertson says you could take away and he’ll still be captain material that are exactly the attributes that make him a good captain.
In trying to not undersell him he’s gone too far the other way.

 

[Dreambeliever]

I don't think there was a serious suggestion that a Hendo without the work ethic and effort could actually play in our midfield. What I read Robbo as saying is that Hendo's native ability doesn't need to be amplified by those other considerations to justify being rated high enough for a team in our position.

And Dreamy presuming to know better on the subject is breathtaking even by his standards.

I’m presuming nothing. I’m taking his exact quote and highlighting it’s a load of rubbish which it is.

 

[Dreambeliever]

Of course, but some more than others, and saying that a lazy henderson could fall back on his technique is wrong. Robbo is exactly the same.

Not to mention he also said take away his leadership too and not only could he play in our midfield he could play any great Liverpool teams midfield. He then goes one step further and says he could captain them on his technique alone.
He’s no Jan Molby.
It’s just an incorrect statement anyway you shape whether it’s me calling it out or anyone else.

 

[My_Blood_Bleeds_Red]

When are you gonna grow up and start learning that when someone’s likable, your mates are gonna big you up as the bees knees.

It’s a bit like how you have been behaving like a loony Nostradamus on here for years, despite getting almost wrong each time, and yet we still tolerate you.

 

[Judge Jules]

I’m presuming nothing. I’m taking his exact quote and highlighting it’s a load of rubbish which it is.

Yes you are. You're presuming your view on this is more accurate and reliable than that of Hendo's teammate, a fellow Prem footballer and international who trains and plays with him every day. Do yourself a favour and quit while you're behind.

 

[Farkmaster]

I don't think there was a serious suggestion that a Hendo without the work ethic and effort could actually play in our midfield.

Take away his leadership, work-rate, & effort - his footballing quality is good enough to captain & play for one of the great LFC teams.

 

[Judge Jules]

You honestly think Robbo's saying Hendo could do without those other attributes (leadership especially) and still actually skipper a top LFC side? Sorry but I don't share that view. What I read Robbo as saying. however clumsily, is this:

"A player would need all four of those attributes to be top notch in order for him to captain and play for one of the great LFC teams. Some have suggested that Hendo's footballing quality isn't at the right level and that those first three attributes need to make up for the shortfall. I, Robbo, disagree with that - there isn't a shortfall in Hendo's footballing quality and it can stand right alongside those other skills".

 

[Dreambeliever]

Yes you are. You're presuming your view on this is more accurate and reliable than that of Hendo's teammate, a fellow Prem footballer and international who trains and plays with him every day. Do yourself a favour and quit while you're behind.

You are the one behind on this one but I’ll leave you be,

You are not changing his actual quote to suit your interpretation which is laughable.

I’m not debating what he meant because he doesn’t go any further with an explanation. I’m reading what he actually said which is total rubbish.

like I’ve already said I’m a big Henderson fan but this is just a silly on Robertson’s part.

 

[the count]

Jordan Henderson: From 'expensive flop' to Liverpool captain & Premier League champion

By Steve SutcliffeBBC Sport
Last updated on3 hours ago3 hours ago.From the sectionLiverpool

Henderson joined Sunderland's academy at the age of eight and spent 12 years with the club before joining Liverpool
Underrated and undervalued. Not any more.
The Football Writers' Footballer of the Year and a contender for the Professional Footballers' Association Player of the Year, Jordan Henderson has also been a European and Premier League champion over the past two seasons.

Not bad for a player once considered an expensive flop, told he couldn't run properly and someone the Reds wanted to use as a makeweight in a deal to sign Clint Dempsey from Fulham in 2012.
But, as he looks set to win his 57th England cap against Denmark in the Nations League on Wednesday, we look at how did he become the heartbeat for club and country and evolve into the leader we see today?
'The last one through the door'

Henderson made 71 Premier League appearances for his hometown club Sunderland before his £20m move to Anfield in 2011.
However, he was almost rejected by the Black Cats, who had doubts over his best position and about his size.
"When we were making decisions on players at 16 there were big question marks about him," said Ged McNamee, the club's academy director at the time.
"The medical department did some tests and the consensus was that he was going to grow but he was the last one through the door. We spoke to the family and it was quite an emotional meeting because there was a lot of pressure taken off their shoulders, but he flourished once his body settled."
From being touch and go to earn a scholarship, Henderson made rapid strides at the Academy of Light, impressing with his work ethic, attitude and ability.
"He had the drive to be a player and the manager Roy Keane saw something in him that he liked," added McNamee.
"After a reserve game that had gone badly, Roy asked Jordan and a few other lads if they thought they could play in the first team and when Jordan said 'yes' it showed him he had a bit of bottle about him.
"When he was called over to train he would quite often play in matches alongside Roy in central midfield. So as a 16- and 17-year-old he would have someone of that stature and quality talking to him, coaching him and telling him what he needed to do.
"The manager was on at him all the time but I think it drove him on to improve and want more."
'The star of the team is the team'

Part of the ethos at the Academy of Light was that the 'star of the team is the team' and it is one that appears to have stayed with Henderson ever since.
A taste of the Championship - during a loan spell at Coventry in 2009 - also helped to toughen him up, three months after Keane had given him a top-flight debut in a 5-0 defeat at Chelsea.

Henderson made 13 appearances for Coventry in 2008-09 before a broken foot ended his loan spell at the club
"You could see he had something about him and how he could become a leader," said former Coventry goalkeeper Andy Marshall.
"At the time we would have really struggled without him. He held it together for us at such a young age.
"We were thinking 'who the hell is this kid?' but one of the first things that you noticed was his work-rate - too often players from big clubs go on loan lower down and the work-rate isn't there."
'His mentality is phenomenal'

Henderson's form on his return to Sunderland brought an England debut against France in November 2010 and gave him the springboard to join Liverpool for around £20m
However, life on Merseyside did not start well as he suffered from being deployed on the right and drawing unfavourable comparisons to Reds skipper Steven Gerrard.
"It was always going to be impossible for him to live up to that," said former Reds midfielder Danny Murphy.
"It is only since Gerrard left in 2015, and the team started evolving under Jurgen Klopp, that people have been able to see Henderson's own qualities."

Henderson was made Liverpool captain in 2015, just under three years after refusing a move to Fulham
Former boss Brendan Rodgers initially attempted to offload the midfielder in his pursuit of USA international Dempsey.
"To be on the brink of being sold or loaned to Fulham and saying 'no I am sticking here, I want to fight for my place' - that belief in himself shines through," said former Reds defender Stephen Warnock.
"He had a lot of knocks with people putting him down, but his mental strength is probably one of the best or strongest we've seen in the Premier League. I think his mentality is phenomenal."
Henderson's growing influence

Since the arrival of Klopp in 2015, the 30-year-old midfielder has arguably elevated his game year on year.
[xtable]
{thead}
{tr}
{th=colspan:3}Liverpool in the Premier League under Jurgen Klopp{/th}
{/tr}
{/thead}
{tbody}
{tr}
{td=colspan:1}With Henderson{/td}
{td=colspan:1}Statistic{/td}
{td=colspan:1}Without Henderson{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td=colspan:1}130{/td}
{td=colspan:1}Games{/td}
{td=colspan:1}55{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td=colspan:1}90{/td}
{td=colspan:1}Wins{/td}
{td=colspan:1}31{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td=colspan:1}28{/td}
{td=colspan:1}Draws{/td}
{td=colspan:1}13{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td=colspan:1}12{/td}
{td=colspan:1}Losses{/td}
{td=colspan:1}11{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td=colspan:1}289{/td}
{td=colspan:1}Goals for{/td}
{td=colspan:1}111{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td=colspan:1}2.2{/td}
{td=colspan:1}Average goals for{/td}
{td=colspan:1}2{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td=colspan:1}115{/td}
{td=colspan:1}Goals against{/td}
{td=colspan:1}64{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td=colspan:1}0.9{/td}
{td=colspan:1}Average goals against{/td}
{td=colspan:1}1.2{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td=colspan:1}69%{/td}
{td=colspan:1}Win percentage{/td}
{td=colspan:1}56%{/td}
{/tr}
{/tbody}
[/xtable]
Stories like wanting to share his Football Writers' award with his team-mates and his note and gift to the departing Dejan Lovren underline Henderson's status.
His work also went beyond football during the UK's lockdown when he was instrumental in contacting fellow Premier League captains to organise a coronavirus fund to raise money for the NHS.
"I actually went up against him when he made his first start for Sunderland in 2008. He was a right midfielder then and his dad came up to me after the game and said 'it's my lad's debut, is there any chance of getting your my shirt as a keepsake'," Warnock added.
"Little did I know what he would go on to in his career, and be the great captain of Liverpool that he has become.
"As a central midfielder, you see a completely different player. It suits his game. But it is more than just a change of position - he has grown into the captain's role and realised he carries a little bit of weight.
"When you see him turn around hammering the likes of Sadio Mane, Mohammed Salah and Virgil van Dijk and they are listening to him, it shows they understand the role he plays as a captain and what he brings to the team.
"He has earned his place as one of the great Liverpool captains, for everything he has done and the way he has done it. He was the captain who lifted the Premier League trophy at the end of that wait, but he has given far more than that - if you look at everything he has done, he has been phenomenal."

 

[Judge Jules]

Great stuff. I can't claim to have analysed things in this kind of detail but I was in his corner from day one. There was always something about him that made me think he'd do well for us, though I never foresaw how far he's actually come.