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Post Match - Lille

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[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=39256.msg1068362#msg1068362 date=1268395100]
The French league is average, khl, honestly. They've done OK in Europe this season, but none of the teams are as good as Lyon were four or five years ago. If anything, the standard of the top teams has gone down in recent years as they no longer have players like Essien, Drogba, Benzema, Nasri and Ribéry. Djibril Cissé was a star in France, and he left Marseille for the Greek league OUT OF CHOICE. Lille are an average team in an average league - hard-working, well-organised, unthreatening - and we treated them like they were Barca in their pomp.
[/quote]
If average is everything beyond the Spain and English leagues then yes. If that's not the case then no. At least Ligue 1 is no less average than Italy or Germany at the moment.

Lille btw beat United a few years back in the Champions League didn't they?

Oh and Lyon, Marseille and Bordeaux are at least on par or better than FC Porto that recently beat Arsenal at home.

Your arguments are flawed Bunny as everything points to the French league actually beeing well on the up. You of all posters on here would recognize this I would've thought.

Lissando, Cissohko, Lloris, Gomis, Källström, Toullalan, Cris, Ben Arfa, Govou, Gourcuff, Chamakh, Heinze, Wendel, Trémoulinas, Hazard, Valbuena, Ben Arfa, Niang, Lucho Gonzalez, Taiwo and Obraniak amongst others are all good to potentially great players.
 
Strange thread.

I thought we were piss poor. The game got to the hour mark and we looked as though we were happy to get a 0-0. The game was there to be won and it was inevitable once caution kicked in we would concede and we deserved to. In the end we were lucky not to come away 2-0 down in the tie.
 
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=39256.msg1068370#msg1068370 date=1268396052]
[quote author=the_khl link=topic=39256.msg1068361#msg1068361 date=1268394929]
I'm talking about their league-standards at this very moment. Not next season or the season after.

Lyon, Marseille and Bordeaux are all top-class sides who can beat every team in Europe on their day.

Of course their best players will go to the best sides in Spain and England, but the French league are certainly closing in on the German and the Italian one.

When we're heading in to the last 8 in the Champions League I reckon you'll have three English teams, two Spanish teams (can Sevilla beat CSKA), two french teams and one German team left.

Zero Italian btw.

You were saying?
[/quote]

I was saying that the French league is average, with a few standout players. And you were presenting a fairly weak argument to the contrary, while getting hit from all angles by reasonable people with a bit of perspective.
[/quote]
By your standards oh reasonable man, what say you the level of the Seria A and Bundesliga is then?

Below average?
 
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39256.msg1068372#msg1068372 date=1268396261]
*puts arm round KHL*
ay, come on lad, out the conversation now.
[/quote]
*removes Oncys arms gently*

I'm not in the mood, there are people on the Internet who's blatantly wrong. Need to sort it out first. Then cuddle.
 
[quote author=the_khl link=topic=39256.msg1068384#msg1068384 date=1268397068]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39256.msg1068372#msg1068372 date=1268396261]
*puts arm round KHL*
ay, come on lad, out the conversation now.
[/quote]
*removes Oncys arms gently*

I'm not in the mood, there are people on the Internet who's blatantly wrong. Need to sort it out first. Then cuddle.
[/quote]Okiy dokiy. Can I just impart one piece of wisdom for you matey.
When everyone you are talking too disagrees with you. It's proooooobbbbabbblllyyy not 'them'

kloveyoubye.
 
I do quite admire you khl. You're like a dog with a stick sometimes. I mean, the stick is clearly soiled with shit, and chewed to splinters, but it's your stick and you're not letting go of it.

I tell you what - you keep it mate. ;)
 
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=39256.msg1068390#msg1068390 date=1268397358]
I do quite admire you khl. You're like a dog with a stick sometimes. I mean, the stick is clearly soiled with shit, and chewed to splinters, but it's your stick and you're not letting go of it.

I tell you what - you keep it mate. ;)
[/quote]
*gives Del stick*

TAKE IT!
 
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39256.msg1068388#msg1068388 date=1268397334]
[quote author=the_khl link=topic=39256.msg1068384#msg1068384 date=1268397068]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39256.msg1068372#msg1068372 date=1268396261]
*puts arm round KHL*
ay, come on lad, out the conversation now.
[/quote]
*removes Oncys arms gently*

I'm not in the mood, there are people on the Internet who's blatantly wrong. Need to sort it out first. Then cuddle.
[/quote]Okiy dokiy. Can I just impart one piece of wisdom for you matey.
When everyone you are talking too disagrees with you. It's proooooobbbbabbblllyyy not 'them'

kloveyoubye.
[/quote]
It's THEMN?
 
[quote author=grjt link=topic=39256.msg1068309#msg1068309 date=1268389430]
[quote author=Stu link=topic=39256.msg1068308#msg1068308 date=1268389172]
Great effort Ryan, it can't have been easy to come up with that after such a disappointing result but all your points are spot on.
[/quote]

Great input .... so you think the solidity of our formation was a plus point?
[/quote]

I can see how my input looks a little short considering the thread had moved onto page 3 mate, but I still wanted to express my appreciation for the time and effort that went into the post. There are not many on here offering up detailed stuff like that and I think it would be amiss for me to let it go without saying thanks. That's all.
 
[quote author=the_khl link=topic=39256.msg1068375#msg1068375 date=1268396426]
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=39256.msg1068362#msg1068362 date=1268395100]
The French league is average, khl, honestly. They've done OK in Europe this season, but none of the teams are as good as Lyon were four or five years ago. If anything, the standard of the top teams has gone down in recent years as they no longer have players like Essien, Drogba, Benzema, Nasri and Ribéry. Djibril Cissé was a star in France, and he left Marseille for the Greek league OUT OF CHOICE. Lille are an average team in an average league - hard-working, well-organised, unthreatening - and we treated them like they were Barca in their pomp.
[/quote]
If average is everything beyond the Spain and English leagues then yes. If that's not the case then no. At least Ligue 1 is no less average than Italy or Germany at the moment.

Lille btw beat United a few years back in the Champions League didn't they?

Oh and Lyon, Marseille and Bordeaux are at least on par or better than FC Porto that recently beat Arsenal at home.

Your arguments are flawed Bunny as everything points to the French league actually beeing well on the up. You of all posters on here would recognize this I would've thought.

Lissando, Cissohko, Lloris, Gomis, Källström, Toullalan, Cris, Ben Arfa, Govou, Gourcuff, Chamakh, Heinze, Wendel, Trémoulinas, Hazard, Valbuena, Ben Arfa, Niang, Lucho Gonzalez, Taiwo and Obraniak amongst others are all good to potentially great players.
[/quote]

Fucking hell. As you imply, khl, I probably watch more French teams than anyone else on this board, and I would love it if they were as overflowing with talent as you're implying. Unfortunately they're not. There is less talent in the French league now than at any time in the last 10 years, as any French football fan would attest.

Marseille, Lyon and Bordeaux would be lower-midtable to upper-midtable (say, Sunderland to Everton) in our league, and Lille would be relegation candidates. That's what I mean by 'very average'. Does that make sense?

Of the players you mention, only Lloris, Cissokho, Gourcuff and Trémoulinas are in the 'potentially great' category. And God only knows what Heinze has got to do with anything...
 
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=39256.msg1068426#msg1068426 date=1268399910]
I saw three of our players trying to get the sand out of their eyes during the match.
[/quote]

I think they were crying at how shite we were actually.
 
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=39256.msg1068429#msg1068429 date=1268400386]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=39256.msg1068426#msg1068426 date=1268399910]
I saw three of our players trying to get the sand out of their eyes during the match.
[/quote]

I think they were crying at how shite we were actually.

[/quote]

Ahh you may be right Bunny!

I definitely spotted Babel sitting on his arse playing with a bucket and spade at one stage though.
 
Not this Hazard-bloke then? He looked great last night. Don't agree about Ben Arfa beeing crap either but hey.... I've left my stick at Dels so I'm not going to make a fuzz about it.
 
He picked the same side as Monday.
I dont know what happened to our fella Ryan, he must have spent some time on RAWK.
Disgarcefull performance again. Substitutions ?!? El-Zhar WTF
Rafa is just making me sick.
This is anti-football.
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39256.msg1068018#msg1068018 date=1268348071]
I thought the performance was a good one. I did. In the grand scheme of things we lost, but after Monday night's effort I was looking for signs of improvement, and a performance more befitting of a Top side. I don't think they threatened a lot. Sure we offered up space, and they kept the ball reasonably well but I can't think of too many clearcut chances on their part. The goal was a fucking fluke. Things like that happen. I don't even think it was a free-kick in the first place.

As predicted, the side Rafa put out was a strong one. no fucking about with maybe's, could-be's, and possibilities. Just stick your strongest available side out and get the set up right. Our structure was interesting, if predictable. I don't think I've ever seen a side more determined to keep their shape and remain solid than us tonight. Every single time they got the ball there was a clear determination to get 8/9 men behind the ball. So fuck if they're in possession, they've got to play through you. Mascherano never left our half. Lucas for the most part stood no more than 5 metres from Mascher, Kuyt tucked in really really tightly, and Glenjo barely ventured forward. Solid as fuck. If anything, we dropped a little bit too deep in midfield on occassion. i know this was to prevent their strikers dropping deep and receiving and running at us, but it meant Torres was a little isolated, and the gap to the strikers was a bit too large at some points.

I liked the plan to free-up Babel. Don't think Glenjo didn't get forward because he's not fit enough to do so yet. Don't think Kuyt's lack of adventure was down to lack of interest. There was a clear plan to attack qucikly through Babel, and to alleviate him of defensive responsibilites. Getthe ball to him, shuffle the midfield across, bring Kuyt inside, and keep Glenjo at right-back. I thought it worked well. If Babel had have scored that first half chance, it would have been a fucking masterplan. Anyway, that's how to play Babel. Give him the ball early, and cover his arse the other way. He played well, and he'll start games from now to the end of the season if he keeps that up. There's simply no way you can play him and Aquilani in the same team though. Mascherano can only do so much. It's one or the other I'm afraid.

Torres is fucking me off. I've had more than enough of him falling on his arse, sliding about on his knees at the slightest of touches, and then berating the referee for fuck all. Why is he so concerned with the referee? Why does he need to go to ground so often? Someone needs to have a word. If you're going to laud his goals and contribution when he's on song, then he's gotta accept criticism the other way too. Nobody can tell me that bullshit is benefitting the team in anyway.

Lille aren't bad. They keep the ball well, move quite effectively, and break from midfield with aplomb. Interesting how the strikers drop so deep to receive possession, which caused a bit of a problem for the first 20 minutes. I guess that's to be expected if you've been playing in the Champions League for the last 6 years. They don't really hurt you though. I didn't see much guile or real killer threat when going forward. They're beatabale, and if we play well next week we'll show that.

All in all, I was content with that peformance. With 8 minutes to go I felt we'd done all the right things, just cos a fucking joke of a goal goes in doesn't mean we played badly. If we'd buried one of the handful of good chances we'd had we'd be very happy right now.
[/quote]

To be honest I agree with a lot of this, it wasn't the worst performance, we were actually decent at times, and a 1-0 away from home in Europe actually isn't the worst result. But the problem is that you can only really make these comments if you take this match in isolation.
Although last night wasn't our worst performance, it's all the performances and results leading up to it, and that are surely to follow, that make it depressing. It's becoming very hard to be objective in judging these performances, fair play to you for making the effort.
 
[quote author=Stu link=topic=39256.msg1068411#msg1068411 date=1268398507]
[quote author=grjt link=topic=39256.msg1068309#msg1068309 date=1268389430]
[quote author=Stu link=topic=39256.msg1068308#msg1068308 date=1268389172]
Great effort Ryan, it can't have been easy to come up with that after such a disappointing result but all your points are spot on.
[/quote]

Great input .... so you think the solidity of our formation was a plus point?
[/quote]

I can see how my input looks a little short considering the thread had moved onto page 3 mate, but I still wanted to express my appreciation for the time and effort that went into the post. There are not many on here offering up detailed stuff like that and I think it would be amiss for me to let it go without saying thanks. That's all.
[/quote]

But it's total, facile shite
 
[quote author=the_khl link=topic=39256.msg1068437#msg1068437 date=1268400733]


Not this Hazard-bloke then? He looked great last night. Don't agree about Ben Arfa beeing crap either but hey.... I've left my stick at Dels so I'm not going to make a fuzz about it.
[/quote]

It's the first time I've seen him - or noticed him anyway. I thought he looked all right, yeah. 'Potential greatness'? Let's not cum in our pants just yet, shall we?
 
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=39256.msg1068488#msg1068488 date=1268406977]
[quote author=the_khl link=topic=39256.msg1068437#msg1068437 date=1268400733]


Not this Hazard-bloke then? He looked great last night. Don't agree about Ben Arfa beeing crap either but hey.... I've left my stick at Dels so I'm not going to make a fuzz about it.
[/quote]

It's the first time I've seen him - or noticed him anyway. I thought he looked all right, yeah. 'Potential greatness'? Let's not cum in our pants just yet, shall we?

[/quote]
Obviously not only based on what I saw tonight but merely because he was voted top talent of the French Ligue 1 last year as the first foreigner ever.

Gotta count for something I would've thought
 
[quote author=the_khl link=topic=39256.msg1068491#msg1068491 date=1268407117]
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=39256.msg1068488#msg1068488 date=1268406977]
[quote author=the_khl link=topic=39256.msg1068437#msg1068437 date=1268400733]


Not this Hazard-bloke then? He looked great last night. Don't agree about Ben Arfa beeing crap either but hey.... I've left my stick at Dels so I'm not going to make a fuzz about it.
[/quote]

It's the first time I've seen him - or noticed him anyway. I thought he looked all right, yeah. 'Potential greatness'? Let's not cum in our pants just yet, shall we?

[/quote]
Obviously not only based on what I saw tonight but merely because he was voted top talent of the French Ligue 1 last year as the first foreigner ever.

Gotta count for something I would've thought
[/quote]

I told you khl, it's an average league and there's not that much talent in it.
 
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=39256.msg1068478#msg1068478 date=1268406103]
[quote author=Stu link=topic=39256.msg1068411#msg1068411 date=1268398507]
I can see how my input looks a little short considering the thread had moved onto page 3 mate, but I still wanted to express my appreciation for the time and effort that went into the post. There are not many on here offering up detailed stuff like that and I think it would be amiss for me to let it go without saying thanks. That's all.
[/quote]

But it's total, facile shite
[/quote]

I disagree. Its facile to come on here every day, blathering on about hating Lucas and Insua and all your usual. Any poster willing to take the time to put quality threads together should be applauded for it. Whether I agree or disagree.
 
We lost to a club that are 6th in the french league after losing at Wigan.
It was not a good performance, very far from it. It was dreadful.
The only part I agree with is about Torres. But again you have to analyse why he is getting so frustrated.

I expect something from Rafa's machiavellian game very soon.
 
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=39256.msg1068478#msg1068478 date=1268406103]
[quote author=Stu link=topic=39256.msg1068411#msg1068411 date=1268398507]
[quote author=grjt link=topic=39256.msg1068309#msg1068309 date=1268389430]
[quote author=Stu link=topic=39256.msg1068308#msg1068308 date=1268389172]
Great effort Ryan, it can't have been easy to come up with that after such a disappointing result but all your points are spot on.
[/quote]

Great input .... so you think the solidity of our formation was a plus point?
[/quote]

I can see how my input looks a little short considering the thread had moved onto page 3 mate, but I still wanted to express my appreciation for the time and effort that went into the post. There are not many on here offering up detailed stuff like that and I think it would be amiss for me to let it go without saying thanks. That's all.
[/quote]

But it's total, facile shite
[/quote]

Two things:

1 - Having you, fucking you critiquing posts on this forum is a bit rich.

2 - Let's discuss it then. It's easy to say it's "facile shite" from afar, but back it up. What didn't you agree with? I'd love more than anything to debate this with you, because your last "Rafa needs 14 players" effort was one of the most clueless diatribes I've ever seen from anyone. You utterly clueless bellend.
 
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=39256.msg1068022#msg1068022 date=1268348181]
Nice one O'Tompkins!

*mordant laughter*
[/quote]

Jesus, It's so true. Wtf happened to him?
 
Reina

GJ Sotiris Agger Carra

Masch Lucas

Gerrard Aqua Babel

Torres


Yossi, Riera, Maxi, Kelly are fighting for starting spots.

(I think we need a new cm (or dm) looking mighty poor in that are)



What I am trying to say is Kuyt needs to be fucking dropped, along with Insua as his confidence is getting shot to bits. Lucas is one of our 2 only dms. There for we shouldnt be playing 4-2-3-1. But at least do it the right fucking way when your gonna pick it Rafa. Gerrard isnt a deep lyer, Kuyt isnt a right winger or a CAM. Its a constant inability to understand balance and how to get a good attacking side out there and most importantly to that is figuring out were a player performs best. There are only 2 truely versatile players in our team; Gerrard and Carragher (across the back 4), and I'm sure Torres could be effective from other areas but its an unproven guess. It stinks it doesnt matter that when Benitez can make his team keep a tight (defensive) shape when he is desperate. He's fucked up and its not a blip its his style and stubbornness that has caused it.
 
I would be pleased if he tried this.

But really I just want him gone and us to play a different formation
 
[quote author=the_khl link=topic=39256.msg1068384#msg1068384 date=1268397068]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39256.msg1068372#msg1068372 date=1268396261]
*puts arm round KHL*
ay, come on lad, out the conversation now.
[/quote]
*removes Oncys arms gently*

I'm not in the mood, there are people on the Internet who's blatantly wrong. Need to sort it out first. Then cuddle.
[/quote]

someone-wrong-on-internet.jpg
 
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