Where will they slot in?

[Hyena]

Ok season is over. I'm 99% sure Arne Slot is our new manager (unless he flys to West Ham for 'talks'). SO, where would our current players fit in to his 4231, and where do we need reinforcements? Early days, but do we really want to talk about the 1-0 loss to West Ham, or the 2-2 draw with Tottenham?

Anyway, assuming no new additions/departures, I think we can play in a few ways


---------------------------Jota (Darwin)---------------------------

Gakpo (Diaz) ---------------Szoboszlai (Elliot)---------Salah (Elliott)

------------Mac Allister (Jones)---------Bacjectic (Endo)-------------

Robbo (Tsimi)---------Virgil---------Konate---------Trent


Or, against a harder opponent,

---------------------------Jota (Darwin)--------------------

Gakpo (Diaz)-----------Mac Allister (Elliot)---------Szoboszlai (Salah)

------------Gravenberch (Jones)---------Bacjectic (Endo)-------------

Robbo(Tsimi)---------Virgil---------Konate---------Trent


Or, if we're in YOLO mode,

---------------------------Jota (Darwin)---------------------------

Gakpo (Diaz) ---------------Szoboszlai (Elliot)---------Salah (Elliott)

------------Mac Allister (Jones)---------Gravenberch (Bacjectic)-------------

Robbo(Tsimi)---------Virgil---------Konate---------Trent


A few thoughts (given that I have quite limited football knowledge)
(1) We obviously need a LB and a RW, badly
(2) I don't think we need any more midfielders, unless they are world beaters
(3) The '10' position is very exciting because I think Szobo, Elliott and maybe even Carvalho will benefit. Szobo is not a midfielder and it was a sin to play him there.
(4) Can Gakpo play the ten??
(5) I don't think Diaz will stay - though I would prefer to use him on the right if he is willing/able. Would solve two problems if he does
(6) Central Midfielders seem to take a lot of responsibility in Slot's system. Time for Bacj, Gravy and Mac to really blossom.
(7) Whitherto, Darwin? Will we buy a new No. 9?

 

[StevieM]

I fancy Trent will be one of the midfield 2 in that double pivot.

 

[rurikbird]

I fancy Trent will be one of the midfield 2 in that double pivot.

If you read about Slot’s tactics (as I’ve been for the past 2 days), he has been inverting his RB into midfield even before Klopp started doing it. I’m quite sure now Trent will remain in that role.

 

[Hyena]

I think so too. When we're attacking the RB (Trent) will move in, a bit of a 2-3-5. Won't be expected to run down the wings or get involved in a high press. The LB will overlap instead, and LW come in. Would be good that the RB role is defined clearly.

 

[rurikbird]

I think Bradley could well end up in midfield at RCM - in that case it will be his (or another RCM’s) job to provide the width instead of a right full-back and quickly get back into position when the attack break down.

 

[StevieM]

If you read about Slot’s tactics (as I’ve been for the past 2 days), he has been inverting his RB into midfield even before Klopp started doing it. I’m quite sure now Trent will remain in that role.

I’ve heard he plays a 433 similar to us, but also employs a 4231 from time to time.

I’d expect Trent to be one of the 2 in the latter and inverting from FB in the former.

 

[Holle]

Everybody can fuck off.

 

[Cerberus]

Yep. Put them all in the bin. Well, maybe except for Ali and Macca.

 

[Fabio]

I'm not making a team, because I doubt I'd field a starting xi that didn't include a couple of kids. So many need shifting out as the mentality is completely off.

Hopefully we're moving on this summer from Klopps mentality and vibes football, and going to play with a variety of tactics, rather than just a "one size fits all" bullshit

 

[Fabio]

I’ve heard he plays a 433 similar to us, but also employs a 4231 from time to time.

I’d expect Trent to be one of the 2 in the latter and inverting from FB in the former.

Honestly at this stage if we can find a fullback who will fullback, send Trent to Madrid. I'm sick of this fucking debate every single fucking week

 

[Hyena]

The replies here.... "bin them off"


Do you actually think we'll get to spend any money this summer? Slot works with what Slot gets.

 

[Holle]

Snot can also fuck off already.

I hate EVERYONE.

 

[StevieM]

Honestly at this stage if we can find a fullback who will fullback, send Trent to Madrid. I'm sick of this fucking debate every single fucking week

Then it’ll be an argument, potentially, about the replacement inverting.

I really don’t get this hatred of the system - it’s been generally good for us in terms of results and this notion that we simply turn the clock back 5 years and casually forget there was a reason we needed to move away from a basic FB system is all a bit weird.

There’s a reason the why 3 of the top 4 teams in the league utilise inverted full backs or have CB step into MF.

 

[binomial]

Honestly at this stage if we can find a fullback who will fullback, send Trent to Madrid. I'm sick of this fucking debate every single fucking week

Madrid? The fuck will they want him for....send him to Luton.

 

[binomial]

He had almost as many touches of the ball last night than Szobo Jones and Mo combined with 124, wtf is that about.

0 chances created and 14 long balls, 7 crosses and only 5 of them found a red shirt. Couldn't flatter more to deceive if he tried.

 

[Fabio]

Then it’ll be an argument, potentially, about the replacement inverting.

I really don’t get this hatred of the system - it’s been generally good for us in terms of results and this notion that we simply turn the clock back 5 years and casually forget there was a reason we needed to move away from a basic FB system is all a bit weird.

There’s a reason the why 3 of the top 4 teams in the league utilise inverted full backs or have CB step into MF.

Because as it stands we play it in it's least effective format.

City play 4 CBS (maybe 3 and a RB) and can accommodate stones or walker drifting in to midfield. They then have a base of rodri and walker letting de bruyne and whoever dictate play and make intelligent runs. They have wingers who stay wide offering them width and a range of passing options.

Arsenal play with zinchenko (as frequently maligned as Trent) as the invert, but with rice (and all action midfielder) working his bollocks off and getting up and down. Odegaard and havertz then focus solely on attack and press. They have saka who stays wide and Jesus who drops deep, as well as martinelli or trossard sticking wide. They open the pitch whilst having a solid central 4 in the mid.

Then we have us. We have robbo bombing on, and Trent inverting next to endo, leaving the 2 cbs alone and narrow. Zinchenko and stones (even though with the other 3 CBS there he doesn't need to) burst a bollock to get back. Trent casually jogs, as he doesn't like defending. Next, we come to in front of the inversion; we have szob generally deep to take a 6 yard pass or we have robbo for the hollywood ball. If Robbo is advanced, Diaz cuts in, overlapping with Macca or jones, making us narrow. To the right we have Salah in or around the penalty box, making the field narrower and easier to defend. Nunez does drop deep on occasion to receive the ball, but more often than not, Trent launches one over the top, or plays to feet of szob/Macca/whoever. We then remain narrow, as our right side is now 1)in the centre circle (Trent), 2) looking at the camera in a deep position (szob) 3) in the box waiting for a tap in (mo).

We had success with it last year as it was a change to style no one expected; and I'd fully expect any change to the system to have garnered similar results. This year we were more effective when Bradley was in the team, as we had a genuine option on the right wing.

If the debate over inversion rages on with or without Trent; fine. But we should at the very least have an actual fucking fullback or defender there, rather than a midfield wannabe.

 

[MomoWASright]

Edit: Should’ve quoted binomial on about Trent.

It was like he was playing on Crosby beach with the rest of the side made up of iron men. Fucking nobody moved whatsoever.

 

[Fabio]

We're so fucking predictable it's fucking tiresome. Get the ball,.give it to Trent, dither for 5 minutes across the midfield, give it to Trent, Hollywood ball

 

[Fabio]

The replies here.... "bin them off"


Do you actually think we'll get to spend any money this summer? Slot works with what Slot gets.

I don't think any manager worth their salt comes in and goes "yeah I'll buy no one". Assurances will be given over a war chest

 

[Hyena]

So who would we buy, and where would they play?

 

[binomial]

We're so fucking predictable it's fucking tiresome. Get the ball,.give it to Trent, dither for a half hour across the midfield, give it to Trent, Hollywood ball, out for a throw.

Fixed for accuracy.

 

[Fabio]

So who would we buy, and where would they play?

No clue on individuals but I'd like to think the excel boys have some ideas. For me it's LB,CB, DM, 2 strikers.

Unlikely, but it's what we need

 

[StevieM]

Because as it stands we play it in it's least effective format.

City play 4 CBS (maybe 3 and a RB) and can accommodate stones or walker drifting in to midfield. They then have a base of rodri and walker letting de bruyne and whoever dictate play and make intelligent runs. They have wingers who stay wide offering them width and a range of passing options.

Arsenal play with zinchenko (as frequently maligned as Trent) as the invert, but with rice (and all action midfielder) working his bollocks off and getting up and down. Odegaard and havertz then focus solely on attack and press. They have saka who stays wide and Jesus who drops deep, as well as martinelli or trossard sticking wide. They open the pitch whilst having a solid central 4 in the mid.

Then we have us. We have robbo bombing on, and Trent inverting next to endo, leaving the 2 cbs alone and narrow. Zinchenko and stones (even though with the other 3 CBS there he doesn't need to) burst a bollock to get back. Trent casually jogs, as he doesn't like defending. Next, we come to in front of the inversion; we have szob generally deep to take a 6 yard pass or we have robbo for the hollywood ball. If Robbo is advanced, Diaz cuts in, overlapping with Macca or jones, making us narrow. To the right we have Salah in or around the penalty box, making the field narrower and easier to defend. Nunez does drop deep on occasion to receive the ball, but more often than not, Trent launches one over the top, or plays to feet of szob/Macca/whoever. We then remain narrow, as our right side is now 1)in the centre circle (Trent), 2) looking at the camera in a deep position (szob) 3) in the box waiting for a tap in (mo).

We had success with it last year as it was a change to style no one expected; and I'd fully expect any change to the system to have garnered similar results. This year we were more effective when Bradley was in the team, as we had a genuine option on the right wing.

If the debate over inversion rages on with or without Trent; fine. But we should at the very least have an actual fucking fullback or defender there, rather than a midfield wannabe.

A tweak to the system might be good - you’re right in that we’re deploying it differently - I’d argue that’s as much about the Chaos Donkey upfront and wanting to hit him with quick direct balls. Long passing was one of the key skills sets that attracted us to Lavia.

Trent is unique, and another manager might want to utilise those talents in a different way - which is why I don’t mind the idea of a double pivot including Trent and then having Bradley play as a more traditional up and down RB - but that too will have weaknesses.

The general line I’m hearing is that Slot is favoured because he utilising a similar playing system to Klopp and should, in theory, be able to get similar results - whereas an Amorim or Alonso would have needed to change the system and require new personnel.

You can see the attraction to Edwards - you have players used to a system, it’s taught throughout the entire club from youth upwards and it’s successful - a disaster would be doing what Chelsea & United have been doing, bringing in managers with different philosophies and then having to buy a shit tonne of new players familiar with it.

I’m starting to warm to the idea of de Zerbi too - in that, their tweaks to the system might be the thing that eradicates the problems that have creeped into Klopp’s set up.

 

[Fabio]

I'd just like a manager who's not married to a system. Klopp was married to one for 7 years, got divorced, and now refuses to dump the rebound girl.

Versatility in personnel and tactics is a huge strength.

 

[Frogfish]

He had almost as many touches of the ball last night than Szobo Jones and Mo combined with 124, wtf is that about.

0 chances created and 14 long balls, 7 crosses and only 5 of them found a red shirt. Couldn't flatter more to deceive if he tried.

Trent Assists (probably the best indicator of his performance levels over the past few seasons). Inversion started last season.

2018/19 : 16 / 1 goals in 3,389 mins (199.35 mins per G/A)
2019/20 : 15 / 4 goals in 3,991 mins (210.05 mins per G/A)
2020/21 : 9 / 2 goals in 3,835 mins (348.64 mins per G/A)
2021/22 : 19 / 2 goals in 4,234 mins (201.62 mins per G/A)
2022/23 : 10 / 4 goals in 3,775 mins (269.64 mins per G/A)
2023/24 : 9 / 3 goals in 2,286 mins (to date) (190.50 mins per G/A)

Of course there is also the flip side - how has our defending fared during the games he's inverted. I have no stats on that.

I have to say that these stats surprised me a lot - I'd expected a drop off in output (G/A) not his best to date mins per G/A.

 

[JohnnyRocket]

I personally love the idea of a double pivot of MacAllister and Trent. It has the potential to be as good as we've ever had. Then hopefully Bajcetic comes back strong and can deputise for either of them if needed.

We then have a ready made replacement at right back in Bradley

Szobo is a natural number 10, and should fare much better. Elliot is also a more natural number 10.

 

[MomoWASright]

I’d sell Salah and play Trent right wing.

 

[Frogfish]

I personally love the idea of a double pivot of MacAllister New DM and Trent. It has the potential to be as good as we've ever had. Then hopefully Bajcetic comes back strong and can deputise for either of them if needed.

We then have a ready made replacement at right back in Bradley

Szobo is a natural number 10, and should fare much better. Elliot is also a more natural number 10.

Amended for accuracy since Macca should be played further forward.

 

[binomial]

I’d sell Salah and play Trent right wing.

Oh lordy.

 

[JohnnyRocket]

Amended for accuracy since Macca should be played further forward.

In that case why not stick with 4-3-3 but give the two CM's more freedom than in a typical Klopp system:

- - - -DM

Trent - - - Macca