7th
that's pretty depressing. I actually thought we were 6th (yay!) until I looked at the league table.
that's pretty depressing. I actually thought we were 6th (yay!) until I looked at the league table.
100m spent and we are in exactly the same position we were in when rafa left
- Thread starter spider-Neil
- Start date
- Latest activity Latest activity:
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[quote author=Rosco link=topic=48319.msg1465066#msg1465066 date=1326709683]
Kenny has had to sell to buy though
[/quote]
so did rafa.
this isn't about rafa though, it's about not pushing on despite spending a shit load of money.
I remember watching soccer saturday (yeah yeah, I know) and geoff stelling asked after spending 100m in two transfer windows where would liverpool finish.
thompson - 3rd
matt le tiss - 5th
nicholas - 5th
Kenny has had to sell to buy though
[/quote]
so did rafa.
this isn't about rafa though, it's about not pushing on despite spending a shit load of money.
I remember watching soccer saturday (yeah yeah, I know) and geoff stelling asked after spending 100m in two transfer windows where would liverpool finish.
thompson - 3rd
matt le tiss - 5th
nicholas - 5th
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=48319.msg1465071#msg1465071 date=1326710098]
We've been here loads of times though, they've both squandered money on shit players and bought some good ones too. It's pointless saying one is better than the other, so far they've both bought dross.
[/quote]
this isn't about rafa it's about spending loads of money to more or less end up in the same place.
We've been here loads of times though, they've both squandered money on shit players and bought some good ones too. It's pointless saying one is better than the other, so far they've both bought dross.
[/quote]
this isn't about rafa it's about spending loads of money to more or less end up in the same place.
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=48319.msg1465076#msg1465076 date=1326710222]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=48319.msg1465071#msg1465071 date=1326710098]
We've been here loads of times though, they've both squandered money on shit players and bought some good ones too. It's pointless saying one is better than the other, so far they've both bought dross.
[/quote]
this isn't about rafa it's about spending loads of money to more or less end up in the same place.
[/quote]
Which is ultimately what we did with Rafa.
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=48319.msg1465071#msg1465071 date=1326710098]
We've been here loads of times though, they've both squandered money on shit players and bought some good ones too. It's pointless saying one is better than the other, so far they've both bought dross.
[/quote]
this isn't about rafa it's about spending loads of money to more or less end up in the same place.
[/quote]
Which is ultimately what we did with Rafa.
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=48319.msg1465079#msg1465079 date=1326710297]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=48319.msg1465076#msg1465076 date=1326710222]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=48319.msg1465071#msg1465071 date=1326710098]
We've been here loads of times though, they've both squandered money on shit players and bought some good ones too. It's pointless saying one is better than the other, so far they've both bought dross.
[/quote]
this isn't about rafa it's about spending loads of money to more or less end up in the same place.
[/quote]
Which is ultimately what we did with Rafa.
[/quote]
that's a bit harsh isn't it, we spent a lot of money to reach two CL finals, win two cups and have a genuine title challenge. let's not retroactively change history because of one piss poor year.
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=48319.msg1465076#msg1465076 date=1326710222]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=48319.msg1465071#msg1465071 date=1326710098]
We've been here loads of times though, they've both squandered money on shit players and bought some good ones too. It's pointless saying one is better than the other, so far they've both bought dross.
[/quote]
this isn't about rafa it's about spending loads of money to more or less end up in the same place.
[/quote]
Which is ultimately what we did with Rafa.
[/quote]
that's a bit harsh isn't it, we spent a lot of money to reach two CL finals, win two cups and have a genuine title challenge. let's not retroactively change history because of one piss poor year.
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=48319.msg1465082#msg1465082 date=1326710443]
but we arent in the same place we were under Rafa.
[/quote]
in a good way or a bad way?
but we arent in the same place we were under Rafa.
[/quote]
in a good way or a bad way?
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=48319.msg1465083#msg1465083 date=1326710519]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=48319.msg1465079#msg1465079 date=1326710297]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=48319.msg1465076#msg1465076 date=1326710222]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=48319.msg1465071#msg1465071 date=1326710098]
We've been here loads of times though, they've both squandered money on shit players and bought some good ones too. It's pointless saying one is better than the other, so far they've both bought dross.
[/quote]
this isn't about rafa it's about spending loads of money to more or less end up in the same place.
[/quote]
Which is ultimately what we did with Rafa.
[/quote]
that's a bit harsh isn't it, we spent a lot of money to reach two CL finals, win two cups and have a genuine title challenge. let's not retroactively change history because of one piss poor year.
[/quote]
I agree we shouldn't rewrite history, we spent lots of money under Rafa to end up much worse off than when he took over. We were a CL team, he turned us into a midtable one.
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=48319.msg1465079#msg1465079 date=1326710297]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=48319.msg1465076#msg1465076 date=1326710222]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=48319.msg1465071#msg1465071 date=1326710098]
We've been here loads of times though, they've both squandered money on shit players and bought some good ones too. It's pointless saying one is better than the other, so far they've both bought dross.
[/quote]
this isn't about rafa it's about spending loads of money to more or less end up in the same place.
[/quote]
Which is ultimately what we did with Rafa.
[/quote]
that's a bit harsh isn't it, we spent a lot of money to reach two CL finals, win two cups and have a genuine title challenge. let's not retroactively change history because of one piss poor year.
[/quote]
I agree we shouldn't rewrite history, we spent lots of money under Rafa to end up much worse off than when he took over. We were a CL team, he turned us into a midtable one.
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=48319.msg1465083#msg1465083 date=1326710519]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=48319.msg1465079#msg1465079 date=1326710297]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=48319.msg1465076#msg1465076 date=1326710222]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=48319.msg1465071#msg1465071 date=1326710098]
We've been here loads of times though, they've both squandered money on shit players and bought some good ones too. It's pointless saying one is better than the other, so far they've both bought dross.
[/quote]
this isn't about rafa it's about spending loads of money to more or less end up in the same place.
[/quote]
Which is ultimately what we did with Rafa.
[/quote]
that's a bit harsh isn't it, we spent a lot of money to reach two CL finals, win two cups and have a genuine title challenge. let's not retroactively change history because of one piss poor year.
[/quote]
What are you reacting to Neil? The FA Cup? The League Cup? Europe?
None of those are factors, you're talking about the league. Where did we finish in Rafa's last season after all the money he spent over 5/6yrs?
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=48319.msg1465079#msg1465079 date=1326710297]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=48319.msg1465076#msg1465076 date=1326710222]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=48319.msg1465071#msg1465071 date=1326710098]
We've been here loads of times though, they've both squandered money on shit players and bought some good ones too. It's pointless saying one is better than the other, so far they've both bought dross.
[/quote]
this isn't about rafa it's about spending loads of money to more or less end up in the same place.
[/quote]
Which is ultimately what we did with Rafa.
[/quote]
that's a bit harsh isn't it, we spent a lot of money to reach two CL finals, win two cups and have a genuine title challenge. let's not retroactively change history because of one piss poor year.
[/quote]
What are you reacting to Neil? The FA Cup? The League Cup? Europe?
None of those are factors, you're talking about the league. Where did we finish in Rafa's last season after all the money he spent over 5/6yrs?
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=48319.msg1465090#msg1465090 date=1326710744]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=48319.msg1465083#msg1465083 date=1326710519]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=48319.msg1465079#msg1465079 date=1326710297]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=48319.msg1465076#msg1465076 date=1326710222]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=48319.msg1465071#msg1465071 date=1326710098]
We've been here loads of times though, they've both squandered money on shit players and bought some good ones too. It's pointless saying one is better than the other, so far they've both bought dross.
[/quote]
this isn't about rafa it's about spending loads of money to more or less end up in the same place.
[/quote]
Which is ultimately what we did with Rafa.
[/quote]
that's a bit harsh isn't it, we spent a lot of money to reach two CL finals, win two cups and have a genuine title challenge. let's not retroactively change history because of one piss poor year.
[/quote]
What are you reacting to Neil? The FA Cup? The League Cup? Europe?
None of those are factors, you're talking about the league. Where did we finish in Rafa's last season after all the money he spent over 5/6yrs?
[/quote]
in league terms we have pretty much only challenged for the league twice in 10 years. this wasn't meant to be a kenny or rafa bashing thread, I was only saying I expected us to push on with that much money spent.
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=48319.msg1465083#msg1465083 date=1326710519]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=48319.msg1465079#msg1465079 date=1326710297]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=48319.msg1465076#msg1465076 date=1326710222]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=48319.msg1465071#msg1465071 date=1326710098]
We've been here loads of times though, they've both squandered money on shit players and bought some good ones too. It's pointless saying one is better than the other, so far they've both bought dross.
[/quote]
this isn't about rafa it's about spending loads of money to more or less end up in the same place.
[/quote]
Which is ultimately what we did with Rafa.
[/quote]
that's a bit harsh isn't it, we spent a lot of money to reach two CL finals, win two cups and have a genuine title challenge. let's not retroactively change history because of one piss poor year.
[/quote]
What are you reacting to Neil? The FA Cup? The League Cup? Europe?
None of those are factors, you're talking about the league. Where did we finish in Rafa's last season after all the money he spent over 5/6yrs?
[/quote]
in league terms we have pretty much only challenged for the league twice in 10 years. this wasn't meant to be a kenny or rafa bashing thread, I was only saying I expected us to push on with that much money spent.
Here's the reality:
Bought for the future:
Coates
Henderson
Both still look like they need to develop more but both look like they could be good.
Bought for now:
Adam - overall he's been a positive, despite some poor games.
Enrique - excellent.
Bellamy - cheap as chips and good.
Downing - poor signing.
Carroll is somewhere between the two and he's been poor thus far.
We're building, and I don't think league position is all that important this season.
Bought for the future:
Coates
Henderson
Both still look like they need to develop more but both look like they could be good.
Bought for now:
Adam - overall he's been a positive, despite some poor games.
Enrique - excellent.
Bellamy - cheap as chips and good.
Downing - poor signing.
Carroll is somewhere between the two and he's been poor thus far.
We're building, and I don't think league position is all that important this season.
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=48319.msg1465098#msg1465098 date=1326711458]
Here's the reality:
Bought for the future:
Coates
Henderson
Both still look like they need to develop more but both look like they could be good.
Bought for now:
Adam - overall he's been a positive, despite some poor games.
Enrique - excellent.
Bellamy - cheap as chips and good.
Downing - poor signing.
Carroll is somewhere between the two and he's been poor thus far.
We're building, and I don't think league position is all that important this season.
[/quote]
if we have no aspirations of a top 4 finish then maybe we should blood some of the youth.
Here's the reality:
Bought for the future:
Coates
Henderson
Both still look like they need to develop more but both look like they could be good.
Bought for now:
Adam - overall he's been a positive, despite some poor games.
Enrique - excellent.
Bellamy - cheap as chips and good.
Downing - poor signing.
Carroll is somewhere between the two and he's been poor thus far.
We're building, and I don't think league position is all that important this season.
[/quote]
if we have no aspirations of a top 4 finish then maybe we should blood some of the youth.
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=48319.msg1#msg1 date=1326711458]
Here's the reality:
Bought for the future:
Coates
Henderson
Both still look like they need to develop more but both look like they could be good.
Bought for now:
Adam - overall he's been a positive, despite some poor games.
Enrique - excellent.
Bellamy - cheap as chips and good.
Downing - poor signing.
Carroll is somewhere between the two and he's been poor thus far.
We're building, and I don't think league position is all that important this season.
[/quote]
*likes positive Ross*
Good post that, can't disagree.
Here's the reality:
Bought for the future:
Coates
Henderson
Both still look like they need to develop more but both look like they could be good.
Bought for now:
Adam - overall he's been a positive, despite some poor games.
Enrique - excellent.
Bellamy - cheap as chips and good.
Downing - poor signing.
Carroll is somewhere between the two and he's been poor thus far.
We're building, and I don't think league position is all that important this season.
[/quote]
*likes positive Ross*
Good post that, can't disagree.
T
the_khl
Guest
Personally I believe Kenny and the owners are on the brink of assembling a very competent team. It's obvious that games like the one against Stoke makes us feel it's one step forward and two back, but in reality we've now not only got a stronger XI but a far better squad as well than for quite some time.
We're still perhaps one or two very good players short, but as long as we can stay on track I wouldn't be to surprised to see us back in the top where belong very soon.
I don't quite understand all the doom and gloom on here at times, in my opinion we've improved greatly and looks better than for a long time.
Chin up.
We're still perhaps one or two very good players short, but as long as we can stay on track I wouldn't be to surprised to see us back in the top where belong very soon.
I don't quite understand all the doom and gloom on here at times, in my opinion we've improved greatly and looks better than for a long time.
Chin up.
T
the_khl
Guest
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=48319.msg1465098#msg1465098 date=1326711458]
Here's the reality:
Bought for the future:
Coates
Henderson
Both still look like they need to develop more but both look like they could be good.
Bought for now:
Adam - overall he's been a positive, despite some poor games.
Enrique - excellent.
Bellamy - cheap as chips and good.
Downing - poor signing.
Carroll is somewhere between the two and he's been poor thus far.
We're building, and I don't think league position is all that important this season.
[/quote]
Very good post Ross.
Here's the reality:
Bought for the future:
Coates
Henderson
Both still look like they need to develop more but both look like they could be good.
Bought for now:
Adam - overall he's been a positive, despite some poor games.
Enrique - excellent.
Bellamy - cheap as chips and good.
Downing - poor signing.
Carroll is somewhere between the two and he's been poor thus far.
We're building, and I don't think league position is all that important this season.
[/quote]
Very good post Ross.
I agree with Rosco's assessment. The issue for me though is despite all that, we failed to really address priorities again. Ok so in the longterm we might have done ourselves a big favour with Henderson and Coates, but we STILL lack a genuine creative force in the final third. Carroll and Downing are the two issues, the rest have their positives, the problem is it's a £55m fuckup that once again could have made the difference for us if spent better.
Its fair to say that the hybrid moneyball approach hasn't worked out for us. What we needed and got were competent experienced EPL playersin Enrique, Downing, Carrol, Bellamy, Adam and Henderson. Of all the signings only Adam, Bellamy and Enrique have worked out. Downing and Carroll have been abysmal, with Henderson showing positive signs.
While we've played some excellent football and dominated games, Carroll flopping so badly has hurt us like a low blow. Suarez' ban is bad enough but not starting Bellamy more often leaves us with nothing up front because Kuyt couldn't buy a goal if he were an oil sheikh from Dubai!
We still don't have proper width (Downing doesn't count) and Bellamy addresses part of the pace needed but doesnt start often enough for us to hurt the opposition. Owners and Management have changed, we've spent over a 100M and our team needs remain much the same.
Our home record is probably the worst we've had in a decade if not more. If we had turned a few more home draws into wins, we'd be flying. Lost opportunity is what it is.
While we've played some excellent football and dominated games, Carroll flopping so badly has hurt us like a low blow. Suarez' ban is bad enough but not starting Bellamy more often leaves us with nothing up front because Kuyt couldn't buy a goal if he were an oil sheikh from Dubai!
We still don't have proper width (Downing doesn't count) and Bellamy addresses part of the pace needed but doesnt start often enough for us to hurt the opposition. Owners and Management have changed, we've spent over a 100M and our team needs remain much the same.
Our home record is probably the worst we've had in a decade if not more. If we had turned a few more home draws into wins, we'd be flying. Lost opportunity is what it is.
R
RedZeppelin
Guest
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=48319.msg1465098#msg1465098 date=1326711458]
Here's the reality:
Bought for the future:
Coates
Henderson
Both still look like they need to develop more but both look like they could be good.
Bought for now:
Adam - overall he's been a positive, despite some poor games.
Enrique - excellent.
Bellamy - cheap as chips and good.
Downing - poor signing.
Carroll is somewhere between the two and he's been poor thus far.
We're building, and I don't think league position is all that important this season.
[/quote]
course league position matters , for that money spent you'd expect some return . If it didn't then what would be the point ?
And do you really believe these lads will develop enough to challenge for the league and major honours ? Or by building do you expect them to be replaced soon enough because i can't see that happening .
Here's the reality:
Bought for the future:
Coates
Henderson
Both still look like they need to develop more but both look like they could be good.
Bought for now:
Adam - overall he's been a positive, despite some poor games.
Enrique - excellent.
Bellamy - cheap as chips and good.
Downing - poor signing.
Carroll is somewhere between the two and he's been poor thus far.
We're building, and I don't think league position is all that important this season.
[/quote]
course league position matters , for that money spent you'd expect some return . If it didn't then what would be the point ?
And do you really believe these lads will develop enough to challenge for the league and major honours ? Or by building do you expect them to be replaced soon enough because i can't see that happening .
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=48319.msg1465100#msg1465100 date=1326711579]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=48319.msg1465098#msg1465098 date=1326711458]
Here's the reality:
Bought for the future:
Coates
Henderson
Both still look like they need to develop more but both look like they could be good.
Bought for now:
Adam - overall he's been a positive, despite some poor games.
Enrique - excellent.
Bellamy - cheap as chips and good.
Downing - poor signing.
Carroll is somewhere between the two and he's been poor thus far.
We're building, and I don't think league position is all that important this season.
[/quote]
if we have no aspirations of a top 4 finish then maybe we should blood some of the youth.
[/quote]
We are. Kelly, Coates, Henderson, Spearing, and you could nearly throw in Carroll too. All players who aren't as good as other players in the squad but are playing because they are young and we're trying to develop them.
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=48319.msg1465098#msg1465098 date=1326711458]
Here's the reality:
Bought for the future:
Coates
Henderson
Both still look like they need to develop more but both look like they could be good.
Bought for now:
Adam - overall he's been a positive, despite some poor games.
Enrique - excellent.
Bellamy - cheap as chips and good.
Downing - poor signing.
Carroll is somewhere between the two and he's been poor thus far.
We're building, and I don't think league position is all that important this season.
[/quote]
if we have no aspirations of a top 4 finish then maybe we should blood some of the youth.
[/quote]
We are. Kelly, Coates, Henderson, Spearing, and you could nearly throw in Carroll too. All players who aren't as good as other players in the squad but are playing because they are young and we're trying to develop them.
R
RedZeppelin
Guest
[quote author=KHL link=topic=48319.msg1465103#msg1465103 date=1326711962]
Personally I believe Kenny and the owners are on the brink of assembling a very competent team. It's obvious that games like the one against Stoke makes us feel it's one step forward and two back, but in reality we've now not only got a stronger XI but a far better squad as well than for quite some time.
We're still perhaps one or two very good players short, but as long as we can stay on track I wouldn't be to surprised to see us back in the top where belong very soon.
I don't quite understand all the doom and gloom on here at times, in my opinion we've improved greatly and looks better than for a long time.
Chin up.
[/quote]
we've been saying " we're one or two players short" for years now and nothing is changing . And anyway I reckon we're actually more like 3 or 4 starters from being a very good team.
So how have we improved greatly ? We play a slightly better style but results wise it's not alot different than seasons past (bar hodgson's piss take time in charge ) . And we're 7th for fuck sake , that is never good enough .
Personally I believe Kenny and the owners are on the brink of assembling a very competent team. It's obvious that games like the one against Stoke makes us feel it's one step forward and two back, but in reality we've now not only got a stronger XI but a far better squad as well than for quite some time.
We're still perhaps one or two very good players short, but as long as we can stay on track I wouldn't be to surprised to see us back in the top where belong very soon.
I don't quite understand all the doom and gloom on here at times, in my opinion we've improved greatly and looks better than for a long time.
Chin up.
[/quote]
we've been saying " we're one or two players short" for years now and nothing is changing . And anyway I reckon we're actually more like 3 or 4 starters from being a very good team.
So how have we improved greatly ? We play a slightly better style but results wise it's not alot different than seasons past (bar hodgson's piss take time in charge ) . And we're 7th for fuck sake , that is never good enough .
I hope Kenny is as shit as Rosco thinks Rafa was. Maybe he'll be a lucky chancer and we'll win things as we assemble a fantastic team.
He won't have any excuses though, if things go sour from there. Even if the entire club from top to bottom is threatened with financial destruction, and all money dries up, even if we end up in some horrific unprecedented game of brinkmanship involving lawyers, shit kicking faux cow boys and a major financial institution, we'll know where the sole blame lays.
He won't have any excuses though, if things go sour from there. Even if the entire club from top to bottom is threatened with financial destruction, and all money dries up, even if we end up in some horrific unprecedented game of brinkmanship involving lawyers, shit kicking faux cow boys and a major financial institution, we'll know where the sole blame lays.
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=48319.msg1465123#msg1465123 date=1326714818]
I hope Kenny is as shit as Rosco thinks Rafa was. Maybe he'll be a lucky chancer and we'll win things as we assemble a fantastic team.
He won't have any excuses though, if things go sour from there. Even if the entire club from top to bottom is threatened with financial destruction, and all money dries up, even if we end up in some horrific unprecedented game of brinkmanship involving lawyers, shit kicking faux cow boys and a major financial institution, we'll know where the sole blame lays.
[/quote]
:laugh:
I hope Kenny is as shit as Rosco thinks Rafa was. Maybe he'll be a lucky chancer and we'll win things as we assemble a fantastic team.
He won't have any excuses though, if things go sour from there. Even if the entire club from top to bottom is threatened with financial destruction, and all money dries up, even if we end up in some horrific unprecedented game of brinkmanship involving lawyers, shit kicking faux cow boys and a major financial institution, we'll know where the sole blame lays.
[/quote]
:laugh:
- Status
