• You may have to login or register before you can post and view our exclusive members only forums.
    To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

How good is this team?

Status
Not open for further replies.

Farkmaster

Part of the Furniture
Member
I feel like for almost the entirety of this season I've been wondering whether this team is actually good. I was fairly sure it wasn't good enough to win a title, and that has proven true unfortunately, but there's a massive amount of space underneath that threshold, and I'm still uncertain as to how to plot this team.

I suppose that's not that surprising. This team is in the beginning of a long overdue overhaul, and we bought three midfield players, all of whom have done ok to well, but their stories can also point in different directions. Macca for instance is brilliant, but has played most of the season out of position. Endo is great, but is a very good backup, or needs very good backup, as he can't play two games a week. Szobo has obvious talent but has underperformed and is ill disciplined tactically.

Yes, we've fallen apart toward the end of the season, with our performances looking quite leggy, but there's nothing new about us conceding dumb simple chances, nor being able to control a game, that's been the case for much of the season. The only thing that has changed is we have zero air of inevitability, and less energy about us anymore. That's a reversion to the norm.

The other thing that changed was Klopp announcing he is leaving. I don't think it really changed the team that much, perhaps it gave some extra motivation. I think it just made the fans hell bent on the idea that this team needed to win something, and therefore pushed a fanbase that was thinking "hey, this team might be on to something, but there's quite a few glaring issues" on to the realm of "we're going to do it lads." We weren't going to do it. Good teams don't play poorly in every single game for stretches of time, but then gut out results. Good teams don't allow lots of easy chances and rely upon poor finishing. Good teams do take their chances, but when our team was good we had forwards that missed many chances, but our chance creation and oppressive control of the game just ground plenty of teams down.

On the tactical ends, the late Klopp experiments into inverting our right fullback are never going to finish... I still find the attempts just as unpersuasive as I always have. Trent wandering around hitting long balls with low tactical discipline, sitting on top of players who are no slouches for an outlet ball, just isn't fundamentally solid play. It's the sort of thing a mid table does with a single attacking idea they have. It's easily neutralized, and it's fundamentally flawed. Our best overall play happened with kids, but it also happened with us NOT playing this system. We used VVD to hit the outball, or any number of other players who played quite compact in midfield and had far better structure. I've no idea whether we could work a more traditional system in occasionally with Trent, because our best player in that position by a mile, isn't willing/instructed to use the width of the pitch anymore. We still deal with his defensive inattention, but now it's like he's absolved of it. We get LESS attacking output from him.

While we have spent far less time doing what we want to in games of late, we've almost never turned in professional performances for 90 minutes, from the beginning of the season until now. We've gritted our way through, and inevitably our luck has run out, with our finishing.

We're going to talk about how shit our forwards are all summer, I'd imagine, and I'm fine with that, because our old team, the one that was better, had a lot of its flaws masked by the fact that it had some razors up front, with two speedy outlets and one connector. Goals cleanse all sorts of sins. It's worth remembering though, that that team also had two much better fullbacks to use the acres of space those players created. It had a more sound midfield.

I'm much more concerned about what is wrong with this team all around. I know that the mantra is that pressing is the most creative play, but we do need to be able to build up without hitting long balls. We are so vulnerable against such utterly primitive teams, and look like we aren't positionally sound. I can just as easily imagine this team entirely falling apart, as I can it keeping what it has and building on the flaws. That's not doom mongering, it's just that the old guard of this team is on the decline, and now the captain is off. The collective questions around this team are individual ones as well, on many players. A little less belief this season and we get results like the previous season. Which is more reflective? What is the trajectory? I've really no fucking clue.
 
Theres talent there, just mentality seems to be shite; or the necessary fight isn't there for some players. i'm looking forward to see what happens with the new boss.

Ideally we need another top CB, a top tier DM, and a top tier 9. If the spine is solid, then usually the rest of the team can fit around it. You say our old team had sins masked by the forwards; but equally we had a beast of a DM, a beast of a CB and a beast of a keeper to match. The midfield is a work i nprogress, and as much as i've enjoyed endo, he's not the answer. Gravy may turn out not shite but i dunno. Szob has degraded dramtically over the season, and is that klopp or he hates it here? Macca is the only midfielder we have that i'm not worried about.
 
Hard to follow your posts with anything new

I think Endo may be a shortish term answer to DM. He was shit tonight and has had a few other poorer games in the season but in the vast majority he's been at the right standard. I think he seems to have faded in the same way as many others

Has Klopp basically caved? Has he resigned in November and has his mind slowly been drawn to the 'beach'. I'vbe seen that professionally on colleagues resigning with 6 months notice promising to be 101% on it to day last but seeing it drop off.

Effectively we are really putting our faith in Edwards to fin a true messiah
 
If you expect perfection from this or any team then you’re going to be disappointed and asking questions like this. It was always going to be easy to get carried away with the start we had. We don’t seem to learn our lessons, whether the message is getting through correctly I’m not sure. Far too many games this season we’ve only turned up for the 2nd halves, I’m very surprised none of the media have picked up and questioned why this is but it’s true.

We’ve gone toe to toe with City twice who many see as the best, they got the better of us at home and we got the better of them at home. Both 1-1 so on our day in a one off game we’ve proven we can match the best.

Problem is we’ve played the most games of any club in the Prem, we’ve had way way way more injuries than the other 2 contenders, we’ve had more costly decisions go against us than the other 2, it has to catch up with you mentally. Then you factor the Klopp announcement, the personal impact with player’s families. Only we’ve gone through this this season.
 
I’ve said it before but i don’t think the squad is as healthy as this seasons overachievement has made out but i’m kind of hopeful that the analytical approach that’s supposed to be incoming will counter some of the problems we have.

There’s a lot of work to be done on the squad but some of the youth has been a real bonus.
 
My knee-jerk reaction after one of these shit games was that we're now Arsenal of a couple of seasons ago but it feels quite right now, except that we're a bit better and a lot more likeable
 
I started (and wasted a fair bit of time!) to run through the squad and do a keep/not sure/sell opinion but the squad is soooooo 'Kloppy' at the moment we probably need to understand where the next guy is going before calling it. To be honest I think we're good with 95% of what we've got if the new guy can get a more consistent, less 'full on' style of play. The obvious culls are Tsimikas & Nunez but beyond that I'd say we are doing ok as a base. I'm not at all happy with Gravenberch but a new style/leader could address that, I accept he has talent at this level
 
After smashing another beer, I’m starting to chill.

Okay, there are some positives within the squad, some questionable talents and then there is the dross which needs bombing out. I’ll also add in a needs to go because this is the time for best return. Soz to be all boring accountant with it all.

Positives

Trent. Loads will disagree but this guy is a talent. The right back or inverted play maker isn’t working under Klopp. The guy is a talent. The most gifted player in our team.

Mac Allister - Again, a winner. The guy sees the game in slo mo at times. We’ve just fucked it up by playing him as a DM.

Ali - And I’m debating about dropping him in here due to two factors. Age and injuries. He had a few injuries which hurt us when he first joined, then hasn’t been injured in ages but this season he’s missed half the games. Is it the Brazilian curse?

Now I’m really struggling. Nobody else I’d be gutted to leave. That is really where we are at.

Questionable.

VVD - Let’s speak about the “captain”. Sorry, love the guy. He’s not a captain. Nor is Trent by the way. At times he’s seemed like his best. Others he’s looked his age. Would I sell? No. We should be looking at his successor.

Robbo - The guy is now a squad player. He’s done amazing with his ability and achieved more than anyone can ever expect. Not a first team starter but probably low in terms of replacing.

SoBoss - has turned to SoShit since the autumn internationals. Started like a house on fire. Well that is truly burnt out. It’s a smouldering mess. Is he being played wrong? Is it form? Shall we try under a new manager and system? Probably yes to all.

Elliott - He isn’t a winger. Nor a midfielder. I think he’d be handy in a behind the striker from the right kind of role. The kid has energy, skill, shooting. He just doesn’t do it consistently enough,.

Gravy - I’m all in on this kid. Still a kid remember. He needs a role and discipline. He also needs games.

Endo - Love him, but he’s 31. 31!!!!! Second spot to……………..

Badger - This kid oozes class. Shame he’s had the Gerrard shin splints. He looks an absolute unit right now and has been massively missed. It;s ridiculous how much we have missed a 20 year old kid. He can do anything.

Jota - I only need to use one word. Injuries.

Bomb out

Salah - £350k/week. For what? I know the spreadsheets will come out but he is garbage. No pace. No power. No composure. No influence. We will regret not taking that Saudi money. History will prove me right.

Nunez - No technical ability. No game intelligence. What a terrible signing.

Gakpo - He seems a nice lad. No steel about him.

Jones - Not good enough. Can try, but too slow with everything. Seems like he needs that extra touch which you don’t get at this level.

Tsimikas - If Robbo is to become 2nd choice then what’s the point

JoGo - Had a good spell this season for about 6 games. The best 6 games he has had since we won the league.

Konate - I used to love the guy. Was fast and physical. Now just gives fouls away. Needless fouls.

Matip - going

Adrian - going

Kev - Needs to go for his own career. Won’t be good enough to displace Ali.

Needs to go because of value

Diaz - At his age, we won’t ever get a return like we will now. If we are going for a total rebuild, we could do worse than cashing in.



I’m not saying the club should sell all those questionable ones. I’d happily shift a load of them to help with a long term vision for the club to get us to the top.

To answer the original question, it is a good team on its day. It’s just not good enough to consistently provide us with what we need. Or even over 90 minutes.
 
After smashing another beer, I’m starting to chill.

Okay, there are some positives within the squad, some questionable talents and then there is the dross which needs bombing out. I’ll also add in a needs to go because this is the time for best return. Soz to be all boring accountant with it all.

Positives

Trent. Loads will disagree but this guy is a talent. The right back or inverted play maker isn’t working under Klopp. The guy is a talent. The most gifted player in our team.

Mac Allister - Again, a winner. The guy sees the game in slo mo at times. We’ve just fucked it up by playing him as a DM.

Ali - And I’m debating about dropping him in here due to two factors. Age and injuries. He had a few injuries which hurt us when he first joined, then hasn’t been injured in ages but this season he’s missed half the games. Is it the Brazilian curse?

Now I’m really struggling. Nobody else I’d be gutted to leave. That is really where we are at.

Questionable.

VVD - Let’s speak about the “captain”. Sorry, love the guy. He’s not a captain. Nor is Trent by the way. At times he’s seemed like his best. Others he’s looked his age. Would I sell? No. We should be looking at his successor.

Robbo - The guy is now a squad player. He’s done amazing with his ability and achieved more than anyone can ever expect. Not a first team starter but probably low in terms of replacing.

SoBoss - has turned to SoShit since the autumn internationals. Started like a house on fire. Well that is truly burnt out. It’s a smouldering mess. Is he being played wrong? Is it form? Shall we try under a new manager and system? Probably yes to all.

Elliott - He isn’t a winger. Nor a midfielder. I think he’d be handy in a behind the striker from the right kind of role. The kid has energy, skill, shooting. He just doesn’t do it consistently enough,.

Gravy - I’m all in on this kid. Still a kid remember. He needs a role and discipline. He also needs games.

Endo - Love him, but he’s 31. 31!!!!! Second spot to……………..

Badger - This kid oozes class. Shame he’s had the Gerrard shin splints. He looks an absolute unit right now and has been massively missed. It;s ridiculous how much we have missed a 20 year old kid. He can do anything.

Jota - I only need to use one word. Injuries.

Bomb out

Salah - £350k/week. For what? I know the spreadsheets will come out but he is garbage. No pace. No power. No composure. No influence. We will regret not taking that Saudi money. History will prove me right.

Nunez - No technical ability. No game intelligence. What a terrible signing.

Gakpo - He seems a nice lad. No steel about him.

Jones - Not good enough. Can try, but too slow with everything. Seems like he needs that extra touch which you don’t get at this level.

Tsimikas - If Robbo is to become 2nd choice then what’s the point

JoGo - Had a good spell this season for about 6 games. The best 6 games he has had since we won the league.

Konate - I used to love the guy. Was fast and physical. Now just gives fouls away. Needless fouls.

Matip - going

Adrian - going

Kev - Needs to go for his own career. Won’t be good enough to displace Ali.

Needs to go because of value

Diaz - At his age, we won’t ever get a return like we will now. If we are going for a total rebuild, we could do worse than cashing in.



I’m not saying the club should sell all those questionable ones. I’d happily shift a load of them to help with a long term vision for the club to get us to the top.

To answer the original question, it is a good team on its day. It’s just not good enough to consistently provide us with what we need. Or even over 90 minutes.
Great Post Momo
I agree with mostly everything that has been written
 
If we had binned off the cups this team was good enough to win the league.
Unfortunately for us we can’t compete on multiple fronts over an entire season.
Have to say this sounds true to me. For this squad/manager combo

Which I hasten to add would have been fine
 
We’re not lacking in ability, we’re lacking in belief.
We got a new manager bounce effect when Klopp announced he was leaving.
We pulled off some miraculous results which convinced us we were more capable than we are.
We’ve now run out of gas, but mostly we’ve run out of belief.
But most of us would have taken a cup and top four in August. It’s just a huge shame, having promised so much, that we’ll be saying goodbye to Klopp on the back of a disappointing end to the season.
And we never did get to have that big title party he promised us during lockdown.
 
For me Salah should have been sold the moment the Saudi stuck in the offer of £150m, and we should have signed Bellingham... these were our two biggest mistake
 
Have to say this sounds true to me. For this squad/manager combo

Which I hasten to add would have been fine
Second time we have attempted to challenge for four titles and dead on our feet by April. Can't fault the boys for trying but Klopp and the coaching fitness staff apparently haven't learnt anything except hope for the best.
 
After smashing another beer, I’m starting to chill.

Okay, there are some positives within the squad, some questionable talents and then there is the dross which needs bombing out. I’ll also add in a needs to go because this is the time for best return. Soz to be all boring accountant with it all.

Positives

Trent. Loads will disagree but this guy is a talent. The right back or inverted play maker isn’t working under Klopp. The guy is a talent. The most gifted player in our team.

Mac Allister - Again, a winner. The guy sees the game in slo mo at times. We’ve just fucked it up by playing him as a DM.

Ali - And I’m debating about dropping him in here due to two factors. Age and injuries. He had a few injuries which hurt us when he first joined, then hasn’t been injured in ages but this season he’s missed half the games. Is it the Brazilian curse?

Now I’m really struggling. Nobody else I’d be gutted to leave. That is really where we are at.

Questionable.

VVD - Let’s speak about the “captain”. Sorry, love the guy. He’s not a captain. Nor is Trent by the way. At times he’s seemed like his best. Others he’s looked his age. Would I sell? No. We should be looking at his successor.

Robbo - The guy is now a squad player. He’s done amazing with his ability and achieved more than anyone can ever expect. Not a first team starter but probably low in terms of replacing.

SoBoss - has turned to SoShit since the autumn internationals. Started like a house on fire. Well that is truly burnt out. It’s a smouldering mess. Is he being played wrong? Is it form? Shall we try under a new manager and system? Probably yes to all.

Elliott - He isn’t a winger. Nor a midfielder. I think he’d be handy in a behind the striker from the right kind of role. The kid has energy, skill, shooting. He just doesn’t do it consistently enough,.

Gravy - I’m all in on this kid. Still a kid remember. He needs a role and discipline. He also needs games.

Endo - Love him, but he’s 31. 31!!!!! Second spot to……………..

Badger - This kid oozes class. Shame he’s had the Gerrard shin splints. He looks an absolute unit right now and has been massively missed. It;s ridiculous how much we have missed a 20 year old kid. He can do anything.

Jota - I only need to use one word. Injuries.

Bomb out

Salah - £350k/week. For what? I know the spreadsheets will come out but he is garbage. No pace. No power. No composure. No influence. We will regret not taking that Saudi money. History will prove me right.

Nunez - No technical ability. No game intelligence. What a terrible signing.

Gakpo - He seems a nice lad. No steel about him.

Jones - Not good enough. Can try, but too slow with everything. Seems like he needs that extra touch which you don’t get at this level.

Tsimikas - If Robbo is to become 2nd choice then what’s the point

JoGo - Had a good spell this season for about 6 games. The best 6 games he has had since we won the league.

Konate - I used to love the guy. Was fast and physical. Now just gives fouls away. Needless fouls.

Matip - going

Adrian - going

Kev - Needs to go for his own career. Won’t be good enough to displace Ali.

Needs to go because of value

Diaz - At his age, we won’t ever get a return like we will now. If we are going for a total rebuild, we could do worse than cashing in.



I’m not saying the club should sell all those questionable ones. I’d happily shift a load of them to help with a long term vision for the club to get us to the top.

To answer the original question, it is a good team on its day. It’s just not good enough to consistently provide us with what we need. Or even over 90 minutes.
Right. This is EXACTLY why I stopped my equivalent!

But you've gone so ...


Positives

Yeah obviously

Questionable

VVD - don't disagree with the comments but he's a keeper for now. I worry he may block an incoming leader for next gen

Robbo -retain as back-up. There's a lot left just not a starter

SoBoss -I'm confused. So good 2023, so passive 2024

Elliott - .. is 20 and malleable. Lots of potential

Gravy - He's a luxury player that doesn't work in the EPL He either gets discipline or we look to offload (but that's hard we pay him a fortune)

Endo - Get over his age. He's good enough ..... but we need to think about a replacement soonish

Badger - Let's see. I think he's the best of the young 'uns

Jota - Jari II (but not as good)
 
Second time we have attempted to challenge for four titles and dead on our feet by April. Can't fault the boys for trying but Klopp and the coaching fitness staff apparently haven't learnt anything except hope for the best.
I think we may have not stretched the team so much with the four fronts. It’s the behind the scenes. Training and analysis may have suffered. Look at the teams for those early rounds. You can see we were managing the squad.
 
I think we may have not stretched the team so much with the four fronts. It’s the behind the scenes. Training and analysis may have suffered. Look at the teams for those early rounds. You can see we were managing the squad.
Yepp pre-the resignation (unannounced)
 
I don't think there's any evidence to suggest klopp has checked out in any way.

He looked absolutely fucking destroyed in the press conference. Not just losing to everton, but this being the end.
 
I don't think there's any evidence to suggest klopp has checked out in any way.

He looked absolutely fucking destroyed in the press conference. Not just losing to everton, but this being the end.
No easy out here. He knows and he's made his bed
 
Beaten by Man U in the cup
Draw with Man U and get beaten by the local gimps (+ palace) in the league

What a way to go
 
Last edited:
i’m slightly concerned that Alisson follows klopp out the door but we might be lucky that none of the huge clubs need someone. unless he fancies bayern
 
Hollywood Trent. All about me myself and I. Look how many times I can ping it init la’, nobody duz eet like me, whippin’ eet top bins la’ ya. That’s our vice captain.

Gimme a prime Cafu, Lahm, Zanetti, Azpilicueta, Alves, Carvaljal, Maicon, Walker, Hakimi, over him anyday. Players who actually knew the art of being a fullback.
 
Last edited:
Hollywood Trent. All about me myself and I. Look how times I can ping it init la’, nobody duz eet like me, whippin’ eet top bins la’ ya.

Gimme a prime Cafu, Lahm, Zanetti, Azpilicueta, Alves, Carvaljal, Maicon, Walker, Hakimi, over him anyday.
Or him, two years ago.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom