3 games left

[6TimesaRed]

But he's a centre back by trade. Using that logic you'd play him at centre back, & there's no way you'd put a kid that age in at CB. Using the logic that he's inexperienced & will be targeted means you'd never bring any young players in.

Also, it's very common to bring right footed players in on the left hand side & vice versa, as it teaches them how to position themselves & use their weaker foot more often, which is invaluable long term.

The lack of support in front of him is a much bigger problem (this was the problem in the West Ham match) & brings into light Rodgers lack of foresight & inability to see in match problems more succinctly imo, not the lad himself, who has performed admirably.

Fair argument..

Rodgers likes pushing his full backs up.. so you get the logic why he chooses Gomez for that position.. Young and full of energy..

Without adequate cover he is just going to get exposed, however Rodgers methods to cover that area so far have arguably lead to the side looking very unbalanced

To change to 3 at the back was his answer and was a suicidal decision against West Ham..

 

[Mamma Mia]

This is all going to seem really silly in a few weeks when Coutinho, Frihiminhio and Benteke click and we start dicking teams all over the shop.

 

[FoxForceFive]

Fair argument..
Rodgers likes pushing his full backs up.. so you get the logic why he chooses Gomez for that position.. Young and full of energy..

Without adequate cover he is just going to get exposed, however Rodgers methods to cover that area so far have lead to the side looking very unbalanced

To change to 3 at the back was his answer and was a suicidal decision against West Ham..

I'd put Milner ahead of Gomez in games where he's targeted (successfully) like he was at West Ham. Having either Firmino or Coutinho ahead of him (as they swap positions) is a fucking nightmare, as neither if them can track back properly or understand the importance of dropping back to cover at times when the full back pushes up (the overlap as so many people call it, that we don't have at all), it's just asking for trouble & may well dent the lad's confidence.

 

[Oliver Twist]

I'd put Milner ahead of Gomez in games where he's targeted (successfully) like he was at West Ham. Having either Firmino or Coutinho ahead of him (as they swap positions) is a fucking nightmare, as neither if them can track back properly or understand the importance of dropping back to cover at times when the full back pushes up (the overlap as so many people call it, that we don't have at all), it's just asking for trouble & may well dent the lad's confidence.

It doesn't really require someone to be directly in front of Gomez. It just requires a central midfielder with a modicum of defensive awareness to cover and double up if and when required. We play with three. Surely one of them can do it.

 

[6TimesaRed]

This is all going to seem really silly in a few weeks when Coutinho, Frihiminhio and Benteke click and we start dicking teams all over the shop.

That's what we have to hope for. As under Rodgers his success comes from attacking play and outscoring the opposition

Given we have scored 2 goals in 4 games (One of which should of been offside) and we have terrible shots on target stats.. we are a long way from that

 

[Oliver Twist]

That's what we have to hope for. As under Rodgers his success comes from attacking play and outscoring the opposition

Can you provide evidence of manager whose success hasn't stemmed from outscoring the opposition?

 

[FoxForceFive]

It doesn't really require someone to be directly in front of Gomez. It just requires a central midfielder with a modicum of defensive awareness to cover and double up if and when required.

I'd normally agree, but looking at the way Rodgers has our central midfield set up they're always very central & not available to cover the wide positions regularly, whereas the attacking centre mid positions are wider. Certainly looked like that against West Ham. Milner got wide a few times but only looking forward to exploit space, not to cover.

 

[6TimesaRed]

You're talking about Flanno ... who is also right footed, and was fine for us for long stretches when we finished 2nd.

see my previous post, though We did concede 50 goals!!

Our answer under Rodgers is to get our attacking play sorted and start scoring again..

 

[Mamma Mia]

Given we have scored 2 goals in 4 games (One of which should of been offside) and we have terrible shots on target stats.. we are a long way from that

Given that it's 4 games in, that's hardly surprising. Our two most expensive attacking signings have played how many minutes so far?

People are happy to subscribe to the notion that managers don't make a difference when it suits them (see Suarez being the sole reason for us finishing 2nd). So forget about the manager for now and give these players a couple of months to settle in and let's have a look then.

 

[mark1975]

You're talking about Flanno ... who is also right footed, and was fine for us for long stretches when we finished 2nd.

Or those other famous players who played at fullback to top quality standards on their opposite foot, Irwin, Lahm, etc.

 

[mark1975]

It doesn't really require someone to be directly in front of Gomez. It just requires a central midfielder with a modicum of defensive awareness to cover and double up if and when required. We play with three. Surely one of them can do it.

Like I said in the match thread, Lucas pretty much summed up his Liverpool career in six days, hero to zero. Heroic at Arsenal then a complete non-entity AT HOME against West fucking Ham.

 

[6TimesaRed]

Can you provide evidence of manager whose success hasn't stemmed from outscoring the opposition?

I mean, Rodgers struggles to set a team up to defend consistently.. His success has stems from fluid attacking play.. and scoring goals.

You score 2 we score 3.. mentality..

Until he gets that right again, our defense will always be vulnerable..

 

[ILD]

Or those other famous players who played at fullback to top quality standards on their opposite foot, Irwin, Lahm, etc.

It doesn't really matter in the context of this thread but Cesar Azpilicueta is a perfect example of a right footer player left back in the league.

 

[peterhague]

Given that it's 4 games in, that's hardly surprising. Our two most expensive attacking signings have played how many minutes so far?

People are happy to subscribe to the notion that managers don't make a difference when it suits them (see Suarez being the sole reason for us finishing 2nd). So forget about the manager for now and give these players a couple of months to settle in and let's have a look then.

Problem is we've been 'attacking' like this since the start of last season, too.

 

[Mamma Mia]

Problem is we've been 'attacking' like this since the start of last season, too.

Yeah, but we have better players now, potentially.

 

[6TimesaRed]

Letting these players settle in, whilst I agree to a degree it has to be taken into account, however it is a concern..

We did this last season and had to come up with a plan B.. I am just hoping that this season it will not so much be the case..

 

[Mamma Mia]

Letting these players settle in, whilst I agree to a degree it has to be taken into account, however it is a concern..

We did this last season and had to come up with a plan B.. I am just hoping that this season it will not so much be the case..

They are different players. What's the alternative to letting new signings settle?

 

[Hansern]

FSG let Rodgers sign the players he wanted this summer so sacking him after 7 games wont happen after backing him.
But if we're still shite in December I can probably see FSG sacking him.

For all the money we spent this summer our net spend was pretty limited, even Everton spent more, so FSG could be holding some back.

 

[gkmacca]

Re. Redknapp: It just occurred to me that he ought to ask his brother-in-law, Frank Lampard Snr, about Gomez. Frank played with Arry at West Ham. He was right footed. And played at left back.

 

[peterhague]

Yeah, but we have better players now, potentially.

Hmmm. We've lost Sterling. He seems more suited to this side than Firmino. Benteke seems just as ill-fitted as Balotelli, albeit a better player.

The improvements, such as they are, seem marginal. If we're relying on that to get us flying up the table then frankly I think we're doomed.

 

[Mamma Mia]

Hmmm. We've lost Sterling. He seems more suited to this side than Firmino. Benteke seems just as ill-fitted as Balotelli, albeit a better player.

The improvements, such as they are, seem marginal. If we're relying on that to get us flying up the table then frankly I think we're doomed.

I'm not relying on it, I just think that we should let it play out a bit. You used "seem/s" thrice in that post so I think we can agree that it's unknowable at the moment.

 

[6TimesaRed]

They are different players. What's the alternative to letting new signings settle?

It is more about timescales.. We did a lot of our buisness early... and blended many in, in preseason..

So arguably if by 10 - 15 league games in (bare in mind other cup games will also be played) they have not settled in, then the managment that brought them in and his coaching methods would then have to be questioned..

That being said with last season in the back of the owners mind and if we continue with dire performances like that against West Ham, that could come sooner, rather then later..

Milner and Clyne have been both settled in well..

Its the other end of the pitch where it matters though..

 

[Mamma Mia]

It is more about timescales.. We did a lot of our buisness early... and blended many in, in preseason..

So arguably if by 10 - 15 league games in (bare in mind other cup games will also be played) they have not settled in, then the managment that brought them in and his coaching methods would them have to be questioned..

That being said with last season in the back of the owners mind and if we continue with dire performances like that against West Ham, that could come sooner, rather then later..

Arguably after 15 league games questions should be asked? Sure, I'm fine with that. So no more bollocks about the next 3 games?

The owners made a decision at the end of last season. I'm pretty sure they are smart enough to give it time and support to see how it plays out.

 

[peterhague]

I'm not relying on it, I just think that we should let it play out a bit. You used "seem/s" thrice in that post so I think we can agree that it's unknowable at the moment.

It's unknowable but it doesn't look good.

In fact I think it's worse than it looks. I don't see much sign of a coherent plan at all. Already I don't think Benteke, Coutinho, and Firmino mesh well. Sturridge will be back eventually and things become even more muddy.

 

[6TimesaRed]

Arguably after 15 league games questions should be asked? Sure, I'm fine with that. So no more bollocks about the next 3 games?

The owners made a decision at the end of last season. I'm pretty sure they are smart enough to give it time and support to see how it plays out.

It depends though.. Like I said last season will be in the back of the owners mind..

If you wait 15 games in, to pull the trigger after dire upon dire performance that would be very silly from the owners point of view..

Especially when top 4 is the managers target..

Whilst I agree 3 games to save your job scenario this early into the season is beyond daft.. I certainly wouldn't dismiss an earlier sacking than 15 league games in if all is going pear shaped..

I would say Rodgers is very much in last chance salon terrirtory.. He has made a lot of calls this summer.. and he had the rug pulled from under him with others..

 

[gkmacca]

It's unknowable but it doesn't look good.

That's a quote from Immanuel Kant and I claim my £10!

 

[Mamma Mia]

It depends though.. Like I said last season will be in the back of the owners mind..

If you wait 15 games in, to pull the trigger after dire upon dire performance that would be very silly from the owners point of view..

Especially when top 4 is the managers target..

Whilst I agree 3 games to save your job scenario this early into the season is beyond daft.. I certainly wouldn't dismiss an earlier sacking than 15 league games in if all is going pear shaped..

I would say Rodgers is very much in last chance salon terrirtory.. He has made a lot of calls this summer.. and he had the rug pulled from under him with others..

Right, it depends. So let's wait and see.

 

[Gerry_A_Trick]

The point is not that 3 games isn't enough, or 15 isn't enough. The whole period of time he's been in charge needs to be taken into consideration. Last season has to count, as does the two seasons before. And that should make 90% of the judgement as to if he's the right man for the job.

Yes, if we go on a bad run over the next 3-15 games, then that will have a big impact, but you'd like to think that the owners would have thought in the summer that either:
He wasn't good enough and acted accordingly
Or will be able to see past a few games and know that a bad run happens, will have accounted for a bedding in period for the new players, and that what they thought in the summer is unchanged, and things will get better.
Or finally, that keeping him in place was only because their preferred targets were not available, in which case the performances won't make a difference, they'll make the change when a target is available.

 

[Mamma Mia]

The point is not that 3 games isn't enough, or 15 isn't enough. The whole period of time he's been in charge needs to be taken into consideration. Last season has to count, as does the two seasons before. And that should make 90% of the judgement as to if he's the right man for the job.
Of course

Yes, if we go on a bad run over the next 3-15 games, then that will have a big impact, but you'd like to think that the owners would have thought in the summer that either:
He wasn't good enough and acted accordingly
On evidence, they didn't think this

Or will be able to see past a few games and know that a bad run happens, will have accounted for a bedding in period for the new players, and that what they thought in the summer is unchanged, and things will get better and they hope things will be get better but will have to reassess after a reasonable period.


Or finally, that keeping him in place was only because their preferred targets were not available, in which case the performances won't make a difference, they'll make the change when a target is available.
Maybe, but I think that might be wishful thinking.

I think the (ammended) second possibility is most likely. Obviously a horrendous run would force them to take action earlier than they would hope, but we are not there yet.

 

[mark1975]

The point is not that 3 games isn't enough, or 15 isn't enough. The whole period of time he's been in charge needs to be taken into consideration. Last season has to count, as does the two seasons before. And that should make 90% of the judgement as to if he's the right man for the job.

Yes, if we go on a bad run over the next 3-15 games, then that will have a big impact, but you'd like to think that the owners would have thought in the summer that either:
He wasn't good enough and acted accordingly
Or will be able to see past a few games and know that a bad run happens, will have accounted for a bedding in period for the new players, and that what they thought in the summer is unchanged, and things will get better.
Or finally, that keeping him in place was only because their preferred targets were not available, in which case the performances won't make a difference, they'll make the change when a target is available.

So by that reckoning lets have a look at it:

5 months bedding in - poor, disorganised and lacking cohesion with alot of defensive vulnerability
Following 18 months - excellent form, scoring lots of goals, nearly winning the league albeit with the same defensive vulnerability.
Next 12 months - poor form, loss of a key player, loss of another key player through injury. Poor buys, questionable transfer policy. Lack of goals magnifies defensive vulnerability.

Ultimately in terms of form it's a mixed bag - sublime to ridiculous if you will. 18 months of great form, 18 months of poor form. Ability with the right players to undo teams at will, constant Achilles heel of a poor defensive set up. At the end of the day, that's not going to go away, it might get better over the course of the season if we start getting our shit together at the top end of the team, so as others have said, it's pretty much hinging on us getting our attack functioning well. That and getting shut of that useless gobshite Lovren.

If we don't manage that after spending £60m on two attackers he wanted, then he can have zero complaints.