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Achterberg

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cochyn

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Who is the problem coach or keepers?

Achterberg started with us 2011

Last three years of Reina - declined in last three years with us mentioned issue with goal keeping coach in the past.
All of Mingolet - ace at Sunderland now declined.
All of Karius - unknown but not looking to ace, it way to early to tell.

Thoughts?
 
Obviously we don't know what goes on in training but it clearly isn't working from a goalkeeping perspective, get the cunt out the club.

He's fucked up every keeper that's joined the club since he's been here & all in all he just looks like a clown.
 
Goalkeepers is always a tough one as there are so few top ones. Reina aside, we've not had a top keeper for years.

United having Schmeichel, Van Der Sar and now De Gea has had a massive impact on their sides over the years, as has having Cech and Courtois been massive for Chelsea. Some of the shite United had in between those 3 which amplified how important a position it is and how difficult it can be to replace the position.

Our ability to identify a world class keeper is woeful and even in spite of signing around 100 youth keepers in the past decade, we still can't manage it. If we had a world class keeper, we'd be top of the league.

We need to get someone who has the ability to identify a potential world class goalkeeper, and we need someone who can train them to that level.

Cant see that Achterberg has shown any ability to do that.
 
He's fucked up every keeper that's joined the club since he's been here & all in all he just looks like a clown.

Explain how you know this, other than merely watching, either, a keeper bloating into apathy and/or two keepers who are sort of okay but make too many mistakes. I'm not really sure these days if any keepers are coached to become top class. You buy top class, that's clear enough. But coach them? Who are these brilliant keeper coaches who should be in such demand?
 
Grobbelaar: "Mignolet is still doing the same as two years ago, which means it is not Mignolet’s fault but the person who is coaching him."

Grobbelaar: "Achterberg is the one I’m going to look at. If he can’t right Mignolet’s wrongs in two years, then he shouldn’t be there."
 
It's a tricky one. You cant polish a Turd , which more often than not both mignolet and Karius have been since they've been here
 
Grobbelaar: "Mignolet is still doing the same as two years ago, which means it is not Mignolet’s fault but the person who is coaching him."

Grobbelaar: "Achterberg is the one I’m going to look at. If he can’t right Mignolet’s wrongs in two years, then he shouldn’t be there."
You missed the bit where he is blatantly hawking himself for work.

“Mignolet can become Liverpool’s long-term No.1 if he is coached properly. Every time I come over to the UK he seems to get better, and when I’m away he goes back into his shell again.

“I’ve never been asked (about taking the job), but if an offer came along I’d have to have a look it, like anyone would.”

http://www.thisisanfield.com/2015/12/grobbelaar-questions-liverpool-goalkeeper-coach/
 
You missed the bit where he is blatantly hawking himself for work.

“Mignolet can become Liverpool’s long-term No.1 if he is coached properly. Every time I come over to the UK he seems to get better, and when I’m away he goes back into his shell again.

“I’ve never been asked (about taking the job), but if an offer came along I’d have to have a look it, like anyone would.”

http://www.thisisanfield.com/2015/12/grobbelaar-questions-liverpool-goalkeeper-coach/

Yeah, saw that now. Pisses all over his comments in all honesty,
 
You missed the bit where he is blatantly hawking himself for work.

“Mignolet can become Liverpool’s long-term No.1 if he is coached properly. Every time I come over to the UK he seems to get better, and when I’m away he goes back into his shell again.

“I’ve never been asked (about taking the job), but if an offer came along I’d have to have a look it, like anyone would.”

http://www.thisisanfield.com/2015/12/grobbelaar-questions-liverpool-goalkeeper-coach/

He can teach Mignolet to take a bung.
 
Exactly. I used to moan about the guy, then I thought I really should find out what he does, and as far as I can work out, he does what he should do.

I would have thought his job was to improve the players hes responsible for coaching. Would you say he's improved any of our keepers in his time at the club? What weaknesses in Reina or Mignolet did he eradicate?

Otherwise the argument seems to be that unless he's given a flawless world class keeper to work with he can't be expected tof get much out of them.
 
I would have thought his job was to improve the players hes responsible for coaching. Would you say he's improved any of our keepers in his time at the club? What weaknesses in Reina or Mignolet did he eradicate?

Otherwise the argument seems to be that unless he's given a flawless world class keeper to work with he can't be expected tof get much out of them.

I've discussed this at length if you want to search for it. I can't be arsed to type it all again.
 
You can just imagine what the fucker was doing last week. He sat down with Karius and opened up a report upon the statistical analysis of free kicks and the shooting preferences of Payet. Then he acted all clever and identified the optimum position to stand in order to have the best statistical chance of making the save. Thus completely overlooking the fact that Payet has a set of fucking eyes, and enough discipline to not piss himself in uncontrollable laughter, and just calmly chip the ball into a wide open net. Both of those motherfuckers ought to be called before a disciplinary to explain exactly what they fucking discussed last week. Then they should both be fired.
 
Grobbelaar was still dropping crosses, mistiming runs out of his box and generally doing stupid things ten years after he started, so he's not really one to talk is he?

Unless of course he was always doing it on purpose for the money. So that's alright then.
 
How many keepers have you watched and thought, 'He's really improved - he must have a great coach'? Personally, I'm struggling to think of any in recent times. I don't mean just settling down after a period of acclimatisation to an unfamiliar league, or benefiting naturally from greater experience, I mean actual technical progress.

Genuinely, I've grown sceptical of what goalkeeping coaches actually can do other than the basics. Has Joe Hart improved? He's been criticised for his 'sweeping skills' and distribution since he became first choice for City and England and several coaches at club and international level seem to have failed to improve that aspect of his game. Guardiola didn't seem to think he could be coached, he just bombed him out of the club and brought in a keeper whose own flaws have been evident throughout his career.

Look at Rob Green - an ex-England keeper, but his concentration, decision-making and performance levels in general have always been poor - and he never, ever, seemed to improve, He's still making howlers now in a lower division. Would Grobbelaar blame Clemence, his England coach, for that? He was sitting next to him at the game yesterday, maybe he had a word.

It's entirely natural and understandable that if a keeper keeps making certain kinds of mistakes then people will point the finger at his coach, but without any real knowledge of what actually happens on the training pitch. If there ARE genuinely effective goalkeeping coaches out there, they must be worth their weight in gold, but I'm coming to the conclusion that the role is dubious in coaching terms.
 
How many keepers have you watched and thought, 'He's really improved - he must have a great coach'? Personally, I'm struggling to think of any in recent times. I don't mean just settling down after a period of acclimatisation to an unfamiliar league, or benefiting naturally from greater experience, I mean actual technical progress.

Genuinely, I've grown sceptical of what goalkeeping coaches actually can do other than the basics. Has Joe Hart improved? He's been criticised for his 'sweeping skills' and distribution since he became first choice for City and England and several coaches at club and international level seem to have failed to improve that aspect of his game. Guardiola didn't seem to think he could be coached, he just bombed him out of the club and brought in a keeper whose own flaws have been evident throughout his career.

Look at Rob Green - an ex-England keeper, but his concentration, decision-making and performance levels in general have always been poor - and he never, ever, seemed to improve, He's still making howlers now in a lower division. Would Grobbelaar blame Clemence, his England coach, for that? He was sitting next to him at the game yesterday, maybe he had a word.

It's entirely natural and understandable that if a keeper keeps making certain kinds of mistakes then people will point the finger at his coach, but without any real knowledge of what actually happens on the training pitch. If there ARE genuinely effective goalkeeping coaches out there, they must be worth their weight in gold, but I'm coming to the conclusion that the role is dubious in coaching terms.
Indeed...and it's not unlike the situation with defenders...a point which remarkably came up in Sky's awful commentary yesterday. Even in the few shrt years since he retired, the Carragher style of defending has gone out of the window. We were fortunate in the 70s and 80s to be blessed with truly exceptional defenders who were comfortable on the ball and could play a bit. They still knew how to win headers though, and when to punt it into the stand, and how to mark at set-pieces, and how to set up to stop counter-attacks etc. I wonder if the same is becoming true of goalkeepers with the emphasis shifting from positional sense, dominance of THEIR penalty box and basic shot-stopping and its shifted more towards the sweeper-keeper style.

Especially in our team give me a goalkeeper who can stop shots and defenders who can actually defend and I'm happy to leave the rest of it to the front 5 or 6.
 
Given the above arguments, maybe it's time for a truly revolutionary approach - go without a keeper and add an 11th outfield player. If our keeper lets in just about every shot he faces and our ten outfield players (regardless of who plays or in what formation) do a shit job of preventing dangerous shots, might as well stop beating our heads against the wall and try something new.
 
Explain how you know this, other than merely watching, either, a keeper bloating into apathy and/or two keepers who are sort of okay but make too many mistakes. I'm not really sure these days if any keepers are coached to become top class. You buy top class, that's clear enough. But coach them? Who are these brilliant keeper coaches who should be in such demand?

Understand where you are coming from but it says something that Reina has returned to top form at Napoli, Brad Jones has just been voted keeper of the year in Holland and Gulasci is the keeper at Red Bull Leipzig who are second in the Bundeliga. How else are we to correlate the dip in form of ALL our keepers and the upturn in their form after leaving? Is it the pressure at the club or is it something else, Suarez aside, outfield players do not seem to flourish away from the club.
 
How else are we to correlate the dip in form of ALL our keepers and the upturn in their form after leaving?

There isn't another way. I just think that doesn't mean it's accurate or reliable. We don't know anything about what goes on. I'm not complaining about it.

Reina, I think, was seriously de-motivated - he'd put on weight, wasn't happy and wasn't working hard. I think he needed a move away. As for Brad Jones, he didn't look any better to me when I saw him against the mancs. Gulacsi needed a long run in a team and it was never going to happen here. I'm no fan of Achterberg, I just decided a while ago that I couldn't really back up my frequent moans about him. I also have no idea where a better coach is so I can't call for a replacement.
 
I really don't think a goalkeeping coach is root of our goalkeeping problems. We just have a habit of buying crappy keepers. Bar Reina.
 
I really don't think a goalkeeping coach is root of our goalkeeping problems. We just have a habit of buying crappy keepers. Bar Reina.

No, we don't. Mignolet did very well in a struggling side and Karius was judged second only to Neuer in his league. I take macca's point about the difficulty of knowing how best to deal with the situation, but doesn't there come a point at which Achterberg has to be judged on results?
 
Reina was arguably our best keeper since Clemence

I know! I remember those days fondly. And he seems even more amazing in comparison to now. Even when his standards started to drop a bit, still a fair bit above what we've suffered through the past couple seasons.
 
No, we don't. Mignolet did very well in a struggling side and Karius was judged second only to Neuer in his league. I take macca's point about the difficulty of knowing how best to deal with the situation, but doesn't there come a point at which Achterberg has to be judged on results?
So remind me why we bought Karius?
Or why we replaced James with Friedel or Friedel with Westerveld and later on Dudek.
Then we had some great years with Reina until the keeper rotation started again.
Were you convinced by anyone of them bar Reina?
During this time we've seen our rivals have Lehman, De Gea, Van der Saar, Cech, Cortois, Hart etc.
 
Amazing to think brad jones is so highly rated in holland. From a country that produced van der sar
 
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